Tom@TPC Racing

^^ Great set of custom TPC/DSC spec DDA RT coilovers here! Very low usage and respected seller. Currently low supply. Should go quickly. Let me know if I can help.

groundhog

Have you got before and after track times or stage times for comparison? For example wrt .2 3RS before and after, same driver same track. The 100/160 N/mm front/rear and damper settings are extremely good for a crossover type car (also given there is no brake bias adjuster.......)

Although these rates, compared to a Cup car 240N/mm 260N/mm are relative weak sauce. (cant remember the helpers but around 80N/mm at a guess)

groundhog

You will have running logs and data logging for the set up/relative to changes - so you should be able to post time gains.

QuickOne

I have all of the data from my VBox for my car at the same track - however, that type of testing is not as simple as you make it out to be. To be scientific, you’d need to rent the track, run the car, swap the coilovers, run it again and get results. Given that renting a track like Mid-Ohio is >30k/day, most vendors don’t have that kind of scratch.

I can tell you that I broke my personal best record 3 times at MId-O on 2yr old Cup 2Rs, two years back to back. However, my car had suspension changes as well as exhaust changes. I’m also *positive* that I could have dropped it another few seconds if I had a clean run (all laps were in traffic). But really that’s speculation.

What I can tell you for absolute certainty is that this setup is sharper, more confidence inspiring and more consistent than OE. For example, in the carousel exit, I was getting rubbing in the rear due to the relatively soft OE springs. Depending on how fast my lap was, this significantly upset the car headed onto the front straight. On this new setup, it was razor sharp and I exited with much higher speeds down the front straight. Same can be said for Madness - simply the ability to apply power on corner exit is dramatically improved. At least for a .1 car.

While I respect your request for back-to-back times, reality is it’s far more complicated and costly than most non-OE engineering teams can afford.

groundhog

Its just standard testing that anyone doing any form of set up would do. I think its fair and reasonable if you sell a product, you should be able to demonstrate the performance upgrade you get relative to OEM. It certainly should be obvious in lap times. The reality is, the tractive system doesn't change the geometry in a substantive way so the actual wheel rate is dominated by changes to spring rate. Thus a lot of the difference you will see is a function of changes to spring rate not damping adjustment.

My request was relative to a 991.2 GT3 RS which runs 100N/mm and 160N/mm stock.

QuickOne

Again, I think you’re greatly oversimplifying the effort required to test it in that fashion - and the results wouldn’t be scientific anyway (driver fatigue, tire temp and wear, etc all skew the results). While I would love to see the results of this level of scientific testing, the realities of the world make that impossible and the results improbable.

Changes in spring rate require significant changes in dampening rate (if you’ve ever installed lowering springs on OE shocks, then you understand what I mean) - and the Tractives do that by both increasing dampening quality and a higher sampling rate - which the OE shocks can’t provide. The level of flexibility with the Tractives (and DSC controller) is far superior to the OE shocks if tuned correctly.

RDCR

The thought that the increased spring rates and monoballs may have provided a lot of my perceived handling improvement has crossed my mind. There are certainly plenty of threads here where others have lauded the improvements of higher spring rates on the .1 GT3s. As a mere mortal with average talent the only thing that increases speed for me is confidence. It would be interesting to have someone who has pushed an OEM .1 to the best possible lap times drive my car and see how they felt about the setup. I'm sure the data you are looking for from Tom would be helpful to have for purchase decisions when one drives at a high level with a much better setup like the .2 RS. My review was more for the rest of us "average Joe" drivers. I've done plenty of mods in the past because the fast guys do them and not really felt any major improvement at my level but in this case I could feel the improvements immediately. That was the main point I was trying to make with my review.

Martin Anders

Hi @Tom@TPC Racing - i have a few questions to understand better the advantages of DSC + Tractive dampers

1) is a reaction time of 6-10ms fast enough to improve body roll at corner entry, mid corner, exit? how does that work. my understanding was that roll degree would be mostly determined by spring rate - dampers would just influence the time it takes to get to maximum roll degree determined by the spring rate - is that correct?

1b) how quickly does a bump compress the suspension? 10ms, 30ms? would really be cool to get an explanation video of how tractive dda handles bumpy roads, cerbs or corner roll in detail

2) the algo/software is good enought to detect curbs or bumpy roads quickly and adapt the dampers accordingly, right?

3) is the DSC adapting the valving constantly or does it have a fast reaction time, then it stays at a certain level and then it is quickly changed at a later time OR is it changed 10-100x per second? what is the advantage?

4) this might be perceived unfair or provocative - just asking out of genuine curiosity - is there a reason for lets say manthey racing to so far stay away from electronic dampers for their nürburgring beating machines posting fastest road car times? e.g. gt3 rs MR, gt2 RS MR - it seems the top 10 fastest road car laps are all done using old school non adaptive dampers - how would you explain that?

i guess my main point is - i understand the great advantage of having different drive modes - i have not yet fully understand the pros and cons of the faster reaction time and the algorithms overall

4 Point 0

130/200 sounds pretty serious.

I’m at 100/150 but I am thinking its time to do more.
I’ve just put M800-GTS turbo’s on my highly modded GTS.
Full E-Motion shim adjustable control arms, Brembo GTS BBK, Cup2-R. GT3 full front end, and many more mods.

I was thinking going from 100/150 to 120/160, but seeing 130/200 has me stumped now.

Rapter

Is the dda rt coilover as quiet as the oem suspension?
I daily my car and find the extra ride comfort appealing but also don’t want a loud clunky, popping, squeezing suspension for every day.

‘How oem-quiet is this equipment”

from a performance perspective I am sold...I already have the massively amazing DSC controller.

4 Point 0

I mainly had KW-CS Coil overs. This time I went tractive. Its not that I have had noisy coil overs, its the Helper spring. Occasionally when the helper gets unloaded, you can hear the twang. It was the same on all my KW-CS
setups. So from my perspective, its occasional helper spring noise. Other than that, they are quiet as stock.

Rapter

like you, I can live with the helper spring twang if that is all the noise to be heard. I have a set of Tarret camber mono ball plates not that make a clinching racket that I don’t care for but am happy to trade the clunk for the twang (as you describe) and have the stock ride with outstanding track performance.

sasportas

I've run the Tractive Suspension for a full track season on my 991.2 GT3 RS with the 130/200 springs.

I run mostly Hoosier R7's. I have kept all my data and video and have compared it to my times and data from the year before at the same tracks.

In general, it took me 2-3 months to trust the car and make adjustments in my driving style, sway bar settings, and aero adjustments.

Before I give my feedback - the bottom line is that apples to apples - same tires - same tracks - same driver - I was ultimately 3 - 4 seconds faster per lap consistently at a long track (Watkins Glen) and 2 - 2.5 seconds faster at shorter tracks such as (NJMP).

In all cases - I beat my best former best track times at all the tracks with all other variables being similar as to before the suspension upgrade. An additionally benefit is that tire wear was more consistent. I basically felt much more comfortable in the car.

Improvements:

- braking zones - even bumpy areas - felt more composed
- curbing - at first I didn't trust the car because of the firmer springs - however, later, I proved in the data that I could carry more speed through the apex curbing
- corner entry - this is where the car really shines - less roll - more stability - nose points decidedly where you aim
- Apex - make sure that you're on power aggressively to take advantage and transfer the load

Cautions:

- I experimented all season with sway bar adjustments and ended up right back to my original set-up (middle / middle) for the best lap times.
- When I applied more rear bar (full stiff or 1 rear side full stiff and the other in the middle) I induced too much early corner entry oversteer - in both high and low speed turns.
- Full stiff rear did get me to point the front of the car better and quicker - and I could straighten any oversteer by applying more throttle - but the data clearly demonstrated that this did not generate the fastest lap times (I looked like a "drifter" on the track).

Cool Stuff:

- The car has a very low aggressive stance
- The compliance is amazing - even in the "bumpy" areas on track
- No surprises in the brake zones
- Curbs (what curbs?) I don't even fell them but occasionally get airborne (entry to the "bus stop" at the Glen),
- Very little appreciable body roll - didn't have to wait for the car / suspension to take a "set"
- Get to full throttle earlier
- the dampers compensate for increased aero loads in real time
- very good ride around town

Noise:

- front helper spring gets bound up on the strut mount when unloaded at very low speeds over bumps on the street

Other Pro's:

- having Tom at TPC provide continued guidance and support as needed!

M3the01

Great feedback...

RDCR

And spot on!