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I thought a significant portion of the 458's bhp was due to the ram air effect (much more than the 10 bhp for the RS), some thing like 30 or 40 bhp. Unless you have a fully simulated wind-tunnel dyno with full heat exchange, going to be hard to make direct comparisons. I always feel that on the track the 458s are a little faster on the straights.
Not a chance. That’s well beyond what’s possible for a ram air effect.
Ferrari definitely fluffs their figures to a degree. Puts embargoes on comparison tests and refuses to go to the Ring. (918 set a time, and Ferrari/McLaren just looked the other way). Chris harris had a good article on this https://jalopnik.com/how-ferrari-spins-5760248
But... it doesn't take away from it being a fantastic car to drive. ?
Or Ferrari quotes HP at the crank and Porsche at at the wheels. P-car has more tire, no? So it gets off the line and around the track better as well. Ferrari's narrower tires might give it a more talkative steering feel.
Ferrari 458 will make the claimed hp with the right fuel (98RON) which we don't have here on this side of the pond. Even though Porsche GT engines require 93 oct min, they are far more tolerant to our fuel, on 91 oct Porsche will be within 7-8hp while Ferrari is down up to 25-30hp.
As for Ferrari's advertized curb weight it's way off, not sure how they come up with their figures, but to this date if you put a Ferrari on the scales 99% of the time they're heavier.
Funny to see the jabs at Ferrari on here (and I fully agree with it on weight and maybe power), and yet this "heavy" and "overrated" Italian girl made my beloved GT3 an afterthought honestly
Not a chance. That’s well beyond what’s possible for a ram air effect.
You are totally right, apologize, I stand corrected...think they changed the intake runners and manifolds on the Speciale to get something like an extra 30 bhp which is the number I had in my head. Looks like they said ram air effect was 5-10 bhp per early press reviews, so same as the RS.
I still see the 458s pull more on straights vs .1 and .2 GT3/RS in track settings.
Ferrari 458 will make the claimed hp with the right fuel (98RON) which we don't have here on this side of the pond. Even though Porsche GT engines require 93 oct min, they are far more tolerant to our fuel, on 91 oct Porsche will be within 7-8hp while Ferrari is down up to 25-30hp.
As for Ferrari's advertized curb weight it's way off, not sure how they come up with their figures, but to this date if you put a Ferrari on the scales 99% of the time they're heavier.
Good point. Also, a dyno in isolation without logging parameters such as lambda (A/F ratio) and spark timing advance actual vs targets makes comparison difficult, as you would easily see if there is a fuel or intake/cooling charge issue. High CR ratios are very sensitive to fuel and ambient conditions. If you know for sure both cars are hitting their intended timing targets on the right fuel, then comparison is a lot more valid.
I owned both a 458 Italia and 991.2GT3 PDK at the same time and pretty positive the Ferrari pulls harder in the real world at all speeds..How much of this is down to the lower gearing of the Ferrari.?
Both those cars are now sold and i currently have a 991.2GT3 RS WP and a Ferrari 488GTB arriving next week..Having a Porsche GT 911 and a Ferrari V8 in the garage is the perfect combo IMO..Love both although for very different reasons.
I owned both a 458 Italia and 991.2GT3 PDK at the same time and pretty positive the Ferrari pulls harder in the real world at all speeds..How much of this is down to the lower gearing of the Ferrari.?
Both those cars are now sold and i currently have a 991.2GT3 RS WP and a Ferrari 488GTB arriving next week..Having a Porsche GT 911 and a Ferrari V8 in the garage is the perfect combo IMO..Love both although for very different reasons.
Originally Posted by kfmcmahon
I have both the 458 and .2RS
sure seems to me that the F has noticably more power....
It would makes sense. I was shocked at seeing those dyno results. I could see Ferrari lying and the 458 being less powerful than they claimed, but it seems odd that a 4.5L 8 cylinder engine would still overall produce less power than a 4.0L 6 cylinder engine.
Extra displacement alone should produce a decent amount more torque/hp, and Ferrari has been making F1 engines for a long time.
So I would expect the 458 to demonstrate more power than a .2 GT3 or .2 RS on a dyno even if the difference is less than Ferrari claims. Really want to see someone compare the two cars on the same dyno on the same day.
My fastest lap around Sebring in a 458 Italia with everything stock, except brake pads and fluid was a 2:24 on Michelin Super Sport tires. The car acceleration is a little better than a stock 991.2 GT3, especially as speeds increase, which has to do with the 991.2 GT3 aero package creating drag, and the low downforce in the Italia.
The brakes and handling can't match a GT3. Acceleration is pretty similar, weight is higher in the Italia (lots of data posted from owners).
Then, there is the strong issue of Press Cars, the lighter and more powerful versions not sold to customers, and sometimes with special tires to produce better numbers, but the tires are not available to customers. They event sent a straight acceleration/braking car and a handling car (on the 458 Italia) for a magazine test conducted in Southern California.
The cars are good, but the specifications are misleading, and the business practices are not transparent or fair.
Funny to see the jabs at Ferrari on here (and I fully agree with it on weight and maybe power), and yet this "heavy" and "overrated" Italian girl made my beloved GT3 an afterthought honestly
Sam did you move the 488? That’s one beautiful car, and I think everyone should own a Ferrari once, and hell with lap times. Beauty is beauty.
Got to Love both 458 and the 991.2 GT3 ....I am bias though I have both and there both great cars. I love the manual GT3 ... both have great exhaust notes.
07-28-2020, 08:13 PM
