yojimbo007

Hello everyone.

I’m having a very curios situation on my 2019 991.2 GT3 RS ( 9700 miles) all stock, no mods ... ... it would be helpful and interesting to hear your opinions ...

Please ....bear with my long story 🙏👊🏼 and see what you think....


Last weekend i participated in a track event and had to cut my day short and head back .

The day started with me not having good lap times relative to my normal pace .. 10 second ish slower.. ! The back end was getting away from me a bit too abruptly and frequently at slower speeds than i expected. The whole car just did not feel right.. braking. ..precision... etc...
( my cup 2s are good, they have been through maybe 6/7 heat cycles, and thread depth is in the green )

At first i blamed all on first run, my unfamiliarity with the track( 2nd time there ) and maybe having an off day....

I tried another run .. and had to drive off the track.. car’s handling just felt too odd, not uncontrollable but odd and imprecise and excessive oversteer ....

I drove to the skid pad area and tried to make some high g turns and back and forths to see what’s up when i noticed some rubbing sound from the front tires when steering was turned sharply ..
Got off the car and checked it out and yup... at full steering lock the tire was touching against the wheel well liner, both in front of the well and the back on opposite steering lock.
Zero room for the wheel to move up without hitting the well.
Now this was at extreme steering angles..
I checked the other side.. i could see some rub marks, nothing extreme though .. but there was some room, couple mm only.. very marginal.

I went back for one more lap on the track, with focus on the front wheels rubbing...this time i noticed the rubbing sound and some thumping sound on the tighter turns and some bumps .... But no where near steering lock angles.
The steering wheel did not give me any odd feed back.. and i could not feel any harsh suspension action and bottoming out type jolts or hits.. just that the car handled so bad.... and the rubbing thumping sound, if i paid focused attention.
I wrapped up and drove home. ( no odd sensation driving home )

My theory was that somehow ( ???) the front of the car had dropped .. limiting clearance, hence the rubbing! On top, due to the front being lower now, the weight had shifted forward more on the front tires causing less traction in the back and causing the excessive oversteer and poor handleing of the car.
What i could not figure was how.... and how could it happen to both sides at the same time ?

Anyways dropped the car off to the Porsche dealer and today i got some response from them that sounds even stranger than what i thought had happened.
They said the suspension is perfect and intact .... and that the problem was the wheel well liners. .....😳🧐🤔🤔

Liners? i asked.. how?..

They said that they have dropped down a bit and are touching the tires in extremes. And that they have never encountered a case like this .😳🧐

I asked but how can both side drop at the same time.. and that the liners are not loose to touch.. they are securly attached.

They expilained that they have not dropped because they are loose but due to excessive heat in the well area .... that they have deformed and drooped a bit and thats why they are rubbing .

I told them that sounds real strange..... And heat? Heat from where ? Brakes? And how is it that this has not happened to any other Gt3 or RS?

Did Porsche screw up on the material? If so and if the material of the liners cant withstand the heat of the brakes.. then Why only this one singular car ? after all im not the most aggressive brake-er out there.

And why that weekend on the first run.. when the weekend before the car performed perfectly and i had some of my best times towards the end of the day after the whole day’s abuse ( on another track)..... and what about the whole year of ownership and tracking.. why deform now?


It all just sounds too odd to me..
Im going back there tomorrow to physically see what they are talking about ( i hope they show me and dont act evasive) and will report more later.

In the meanwhile.....

Does this make sense to anyone..?
I know brakes can get super hot.. but hot to a point where the heat extends to the liners to a degree to melt them ???
And even if both liners deforemd due to heat and drooped( ???) .. would that bring about the handling issues i experienced? The high over steer.. lack of precision .. braking ... .. etc.

Im totally baffled with both what has happened to the car and even more with Porsche’s explanation ....🤷🏼‍♂️🤔🤔

Any thoughts..

tstafford

Are they fixing it under warranty? If so, I think I'd just accept that and see what happens. It does sound odd, but I've done enough track time to know that putting this level of strain on cars exposes weak points.

shapiroeric

It does sound strange but I would go through with their initial diagnosis and fix....you'll know if they are spewing BS if it doesn't fix the problem....weird things can happen on cars all the time....Bumper to bumper warranty so let them fix it and then see....

Chris3963

It’s maybe just a coincidence but I just put my RS is for a check up on a couple of things including the occasional odd sound coming from the front end in some corners. I just got a call to advise me that a small amount of softness has occurred in the front dampers and are advising me to replace them. i want to first speak to the technicians before making any decision to replace.

CobaltCr

do you have the weissach package? if so check to make sure the sway bar drop links haven't broken. even though the dealer says the suspension is fine i would still check again.

Z06

It needs to go to a shop that knows what they are doing, check basic suspension set up, alignment, ride height on all corners.


Porsche dealer, even if it was the wheel well liners which I doubt, they should replace them.

Perimeter

When the liners get hot they droop?
WTH?
This is not a slice of cheese melting on a burger but a fabricated liner. This "droop" sounds very odd

CRex

You sure your strut tops are intact and the strut top geometry doesn't show signs of change from when you last set it?

yojimbo007

Thanks everyone.. big time!
Rather than answer each post individually i will respond to all here.

Tst, Shap: Yes they will be repairing it under warranty..
Chris: what year is your car? Mine is 2019 , 9700 miles... could that happen to such new car ? . i will ask the dealer to inspect ! Thank you .
Cobolt: yes it is WP. And i did mention the drop links to them on a phone call. I saw a little thread about that here . When i go there today i will remind them and try to take a look .
Zo6: i am hoping the Porsche dealer knows what they are doing...but to be honest its just a belief. And yes its all covered by warranty.
Peri: i could not agree more.. it sounds super strange.. if that is the case.. then why just this one car .. it should be a prevalent problem !
CRex: I wish i could tell... i don't know how to check for that or what to look for... but i will bring it up to the dealer’s mechanic. Any pointers? Also ( what awesome graphics on your car.. love it. Where did u have it done? )

A/S

Drop the car at Werks II in Burbank, have the car corner weighed, rake setup and aligned. Have them check the sway bat settings, rear at full soft, front in the middle.

Liners don't deform, and mine have been through some heat. My front tire is a 295 Hoosier that looks big compared to the stock tires.

My .2 GT3RS is out of alignment right now, it drives horribly, but once aligned it drives like a dream. My car has been to more than 8 alignments in 14 months, most of them fine tuning to my preference.

TRAKCAR

If liners could melt, mine would be melted by now.
Liners don’t drop.
But if that’s what they call it under warranty, take it and then go straight to a good shop.

Chris, front shocks getting soft?!
That’s nuts, what’s going on with these twilight problems here?

ipse dixit

Check the frunk, maybe?

Maybe someone snuck in anvil or something.

CRex

Front dampers attach to your chassis at the strut top via 3 hex bolts. The dampers can slide relative to strut top--that's one of the adjustments to effect camber change. See if the paintwork under the bolts show sign of abrasion--could be a tell of improper tightening at your last setup/service leading to geometry change while on track.

Other comments about liner not deforming are spot on. Those pieces do not just "melt" under track use. Not unless you're in an Alfa Romeo. If "rub" is indeed the issue, I'd just check to see all the plastic speed nuts holding those liners are properly installed prior to your sessions.

Long story short, from the drift of various responses here, you'd want to confirm the geometry of your car, and that it won't change under you. You'd also want to make sure the liner panels are properly installed.

I won't bother with dampers or springs. Failed damper means no/wrong damping but doesn't affect static geometry. Springs are springs--unless they both fell off the perch or snapped at the same time, odds of having two concurrent failures is small. Just curious, does your car have FAL?

yojimbo007

Hello everyone.. again, many thanks for all your inputs !!! 🙏🙏

Tomorrow i will update your with some info which should bring some clarity to the situation , at least to some aspects of it...
and hopefully ill have some pics too to share too.. (if the SA saved the pics he took?)

loungin

Isn’t it normal for the front wheels to rub on full lock on this car?