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Dry grip and performance IS my concern and it's almost certainly why Porsche chose to provide the Cup 2's as the OEM tire on the GT3. For years I maintained a separate set of tires and wheels for autocross and went through the exercise of swapping things back and forth for every event. I got tired of that.
The Cup2's on the GT3 make for a competitive combination that I can drive to and from an event and for the otherl driving that I do with my car (not a DD, almost never driven in the rain) they are more than satisfactory for the street too. Based on your requirements the PS4S is apparently the obvious choice for you. My requirements are different so I made a different choice. No right or wrong, just different.
My answer was based on the original question at hand about a daily driver tire choice.
My reply was simply stating you don’t need Cup 2’s for street driving. Not much to it.
Edit: for the record, my car has Cup 2’s on it. I know RL threads typically turn into “defend your purchase decision” pretty quickly.
The Cup2 is a tire that requires heat to produce higher levels of grip than the Pilot 4S. On normal driving, and any weather under 80 degrees, the Pilot 4S is a superior dry grip tire.
On my 991.1 Turbo S, the lap time difference between warmed up fresh Cup2 and my daily P4S is just 1 second, and this is on a racetrack (PBIR) where laps are in the 1:25-1:27 range on these tires and this car. They behave differently, the 4S squeals but sticks, and 1 sec is not that much of a difference. The same car on Hoosiers and the same track goes 2 secs faster than Cup2.
In the rain (check One Lap of America wet results in the last three years), there is nothing I have experienced with more wet grip. I ran P4S against a faster car on Hoosier H2O at a practice event, and I was pulling over 1g on lateral grip with standing water.
For track use, I would not recommend a P4S, but I would not recommend a Cup2 either. There are better street tires than the Cup2 and there are better track tires than a Cup2. All my cars are on P4S, except the Cayenne Turbo, and Michelin is about to release the Pilot Sport 4 SUV (the Michelin rep told me that Fall 2019 was their target release date for the U.S. market).
The Cup2 struggles to pull more than 1.2g when it is below 100 degrees on the carcass, while the 4S does it from all temperatures over 50 degrees.
I prefer the Trofeo R over the Cup2, more consistent after a few laps, but their price is a little rich, and in between Pirelli scrub slicks from the 488 Challenge and some IMSA cars, and Hoosiers, I get more fun at a lower operating cost.
My answer was based on the original question at hand about a daily driver tire choice.
My reply was simply stating you don’t need Cup 2’s for street driving. Not much to it.
Edit: for the record, my car has Cup 2’s on it. I know RL threads typically turn into “defend your purchase decision” pretty quickly.
Fair enough. And my original reply to the OP was also that the PS4S was the best choice for an all weather DD.
When I responded to your post it was because you declared, pretty definitively, that "if dry grip is your concern then you get a second set of wheels and throw R-compounds on them." That didn't seem to leave much room for disagreement. I had a different opinion so I threw in my $.02. All in the spirit of a good discussion.
Fair enough. And my original reply to the OP was also that the PS4S was the best choice for an all weather DD.
When I responded to your post it was because you declared, pretty definitively, that "if dry grip is your concern then you get a second set of wheels and throw R-compounds on them." That didn't seem to leave much room for disagreement. I had a different opinion so I threw in my $.02. All in the spirit of a good discussion.
Gotcha, my mistake. That was more in reply to the 4s “neutering” the gt3 comment from somebody else.
We can all agree that every tire is a compromise in one form or another. But that was a bit of an extreme.
I have the 4S on my TT and wifes Boxster there great in all conditions minus snow.
The Cup 2 are not needed for a DD bedsides in cold WX there is a noticeable issue with grip.
Thanks for the tip on Costco tire. Hopefully they can mount center lock wheels. Will have to call them tomorrow to see. There's a $149 off deal until 2/16/2020.
I'm in the boat for new tires as well for my 991.1 GT3. I still have the original cup2 tires from 2014 on the car that I just purchase. I'm on the fence. I agree with A/S. I think that for street driving the Cup2's don't get up to temperature to get maximum grip for periodic sprints on the street where as the 4S would not be as temperature sensitive. And you can drive the 4S in the rain without white knuckling it.
First and foremost, if anybody is breaking cohesion limits on a 4s on public roads then they have no business being there, period. Take it to the track and quit being an idiot......
Well, in all fairness you do have to be gentle on the on the gas on cold days with the GT2 running 4s! ;Q
Originally Posted by A/S
The Cup2 is a tire that requires heat to produce higher levels of grip than the Pilot 4S. On normal driving, and any weather under 80 degrees, the Pilot 4S is a superior dry grip tire.......
This in a nutshell is the answer to this thread.
Originally Posted by Guest89
Cup 2s are fine in cold weather ... I drove my car this morning with snow on the ground.
Well, in all fairness you do have to be gentle on the on the gas on cold days with the GT2 running 4s! ;Q
This in a nutshell is the answer to this thread.
Um...no. no. no. no. no.
I am dead serious. Hit 34,500 miles today. I have driven all of my 911s in snow at least once: 993 on MPSS, 997.1 GT3 on MPSS and MPSC2, 991.1 on MPSC2.
Good evening. This is my first post on RL. Great topic and I've seen several similar posts in the past.
I wanted to chime in with my experience as a GT3 newbie. I bought my 991.1 GT3 (2015) in early October and then went to Road Atlanta for my first track day. There was a good chance of rain for the weekend (not to mention fall/winter approaching) and at the recommendation of several more experienced friends, I took the Cup2 tire off and put a set of 4S on. The rain never came and I was worried I had now made a mistake. I shouldn't have worried.
Since I was in the novice group, I had an instructor with me for my sessions. I lucked into an amazing teacher who happened to drive Porsches regularly as an instructor at the Porsche Experience Center in Atlanta. He was quite familiar with Road Atlanta from many events and competing in several race series. I say all this because I came from a '05 996 TT and was just amazed at the grip and feel of the GT3. In fact, I was getting nervous at the confidence levels I seemed to have and felt I just had to be approaching the limits of the tires. To get a better sense of this, I traded places with my instructor and was amazed at what the car/tires were able to do in the right hands. This gave me further confidence to push harder and my times dropped significantly. What a weekend.
Anyway, all this happened on the 4S tires and they produced the attached G-meter pic. Since that session, I have driven the car 4K miles as my DD through heavy rain, cold days (20s) and even light snow and have never felt worried. I do have my Cup2 tires saved (only 1K miles on them) and plan to use them for a late spring/summer track day and maybe for the rest of the summer depending on what's left. Might just have to drive something else when heavy rain is projected.
Thanks for the tip on Costco tire. Hopefully they can mount center lock wheels. Will have to call them tomorrow to see. There's a $149 off deal until 2/16/2020.
They can put tires on anything, I’m doubtful they have the necessary tools and know-how to deal with centerlocks though, you may have to pull the wheels yourself and take them in loose. You can’t beat the price.
One thing I noticed is that the Costco site doesn’t show the OE designations, so you have to grab the MSPN from the Michelin site and search for them that way.
02-07-2020, 03:20 PM
