Camisade

Wondering how that Weissach package feels for street use?

I'd stepped away from what had become seriously (overly?) rabid enthusiasm for tracking cars for several years but am now jonesing to return on occasion. I'm looking for a track toy I can have occasional, high-speed fun in without feeling like I'll want to begin tuning it up from stock or going the full Hoosier route again -- probably only 4-5 track weekends a year or so. So unless I succumb to the old addiction again, the car will probably see 80% usage on the street. So while track performance is the priority, I'd like at least *some* modicum of comfort/practicality for sunny-day street use, perhaps some fun rally events, and for driving to/from tracks up to a couple hundred miles away (hey, if the car breaks, I'll have it towed and rent a ride home; done it enough to know it happens.). Having downsized a bit, I don't intend at this point to get another car hauler (tools and extra tires on the roof or in a small trailer behind the car are probably the direction I'll go, this time). Of course all this also means driving the car on a semi-annual 1000 mile migration between Ohio and Florida (where the tracks remain open in the winter!).

It seems to me that the 991.2 GT3 RS is the 911 I'm looking for, because I really prefer tracking high horsepower RWD vs the 911 turbos' AWD.

Question to those out there who have an RS with the Weissach package: Have you been in a GT3 or GT3 RS without that package, and how much different or how much more harsh does the Weissach suspension feel on the street? How much do you still love the Weissach suspension after 4-8 hours of highway driving?

Nizer

No difference between Weissach Package suspension and standard RS suspension in terms of stiffness or ride quality. Main issue with WP is potholes if you include the Mg wheels in the pkg.

Better to go with GT3 if you want something that wears you down less on extended highway drives.

pitt911

Had .2 GT3RS with WP.. there is no WP suspension .. having said that I found the .2 3RS fairly stiff for street driving even as I compared it to my .1 3RS …
agree with above that .2 GT3 is a better DD

mig7410

I have both cars. The GT3 RS with the Wassach is my track car. Very seldom drive it on the street. I have a GT3 with a manual that is my road going sport car, although I do track it a little.
My wife also has a GT3 with the PDK. I notice her car seems to have firmer suspension then my manual.
I think the Wassach package just looks cool and saves a few pounds.

A/S

Spring rates on a 991.2 GT3RS and 991.2 GT2RS: 575# / 925# (rounded to lbs/in as they are rated 100/160 N/mm)

Spring rates in all other 991 GT cars, including 911 R, 991.1 and 991.2 GT3, 991.1 GT3RS and 911 Toruing: 250#/700# (45/120 N/mm).

Shocks and shock controller programming is different among the 991 GT variations. The .2 RS has monoballs and metal bushings in all the suspension arms and joints except the inner link to the RWS motor. There are over 30 joints in a GT3 suspension. The non .2RS have mostly rubber bushings except a few monoballs.

.2 GT3 is a better DD, and so is the .1 RS, actually all the 991 GT cars are better DD than the .2 GT3RS/GT2RS due to the massive difference on spring rates and all the monoballs in the late RS.

On most American racetracks, well driven 991.2 GT3, 991.1 GT3RS and 991.2 GT3RS on amateur experienced drivers and equal type of tires are lapping pretty close to each other. It's more of a driver's skills and experience difference than actual difference between cars. Check the lap times thread and look at the difference between 991.1 GT3 (the truly slowest one) and 991.2 GT3 RS (the fastest of the 991 GT3 group).

I would go with the $170k 991.1 GT3RS, a set of Dundon headers, Carbon buckets, PCCB, FAL, replace the rotors for my track weekends. I have high tolerance for loud and stiff cars, and the .2RS is just too loud (no sound insulation, Gorilla glass on sides and back) and too stiff.

AllAboutThatP

My only experience on the .2 GT3 is a short test drive. Compared to my .2 GT3RS it was definitely more comfortable on the road. The .2 GT3RS is pretty stiff, but I have a high tolerance for it and don't mind it. I also got the DSC Sport controller and that actually made a noticeable improvement.

What I find actually more of an issue is the lack of sound deadening so you get lots of road noise. It's not an issue when I am driving close to home. I live in an area that is very rural, hilly, winding back roads. Just awesome for driving, so when I am on those roads I am having so much fun that I really don't notice the road noise as an issue. However, when I have driven on highway/interstate for several hours the road noise can get a little tiring. To the point that next time I drive it for 2+ hours on the highway I am contemplating putting in some Surefire ear plugs that don't severely reduce noise, but will just take a little bit of the edge off.

Camisade

Thanks all for sharing. Your experiences are definitely encouraging me to rethink my upcoming purchase decision! Sounds like the .2 GT3 might actually make me happier, all things considered (although there will always be that part of me that's disappointed at prioritizing comfort over pure performance!). I'd replaced the motor mounts and bushings with polyurethane in my tuned up 997 GT2 to tighten it up, but the stock springs (and my driving skills, of course), ended feeling like a weak link when pushing that car on the track...

A/S

Some additional notes:

The front springs in the 997 GT2 are the same stiffness as all the 991 GT cars (except the outliers .2 GT3RS/GT2RS). At the rear, the 997 GT2 has similar spring rates as all the 991 GT (except the outliers). Weight distribution on the 991 is shifted to the front, and damping is vastly improved over the 997 GT series, so the ride is more comfortable, but not a penalty at all. Run some hard laps in a 991 GT car, and you're keeping up with the best of McLaren, Ferrari, other Porsches, Viper, Vettes. Again, it is more of a driver's difference than a car hardware limitation.

If you love manual and want a 991: You can get the R or the Touring. These cars have almost no downforce, so they should be more fun to drive on a racetrack (just a little slower, but faster than most cars anyway). The Touring is almost 1/2 price of the R. The Touring has a longer warranty too and the better engine.

If you get a 991.1, go for the R or the RS, they both have a 4.0 engine with an 8800rpm rev limiter, add Dundon headers, and you have a winner (Dundon have big gains in the 991.1 4.0). The advantage in the RS is that we have been running 295/345x19 Hoosiers for years, Pirelli 488 Challenge slicks, and the RS just fits very wide tires and that makes it a fun car at the track (fat tires don't fit the non-RS).

The fastest street car around Sebring is a 991.1 GT3RS with a few bolt-ons. That car lapped in 2:12.8. No street car has lapped any faster. There are a few race cars built from a street car that could lap faster around Sebring, but when building a street car for track use with no limits in preparation and modifications, performance can get close or even exceed Porsche factory race cars. I recall this same car on stock springs lapped in the 2:13s.

All 991 GT cars use dynamic engine mounts.

Camisade

Thanks again. I do like the idea of a 991.1 GT3RS's best-of-both-worlds potential that could accommodate some performance tweaking (that I'm telling myself I will NOT want to begin doing now; but which history says I will begin contemplating about half way through my first track weekend...). Gawd knows I'll appreciate those softer springs at Sebring!

hashash

The car isnt that bad on the streets , IMO it rides perfect - stiff for sure but not punishing and looks tons more aggressive than the GT3 ! And the WP carbon fiber adds a bit more special feeling and exotic look to an already bery nice looking car .
if it was me i would go defo to a WP .2 3RS !
i have riden in a friends Gt3 and have a WP 3RS and a WP 2RS .

AllAboutThatP

I agree with this, but it all comes down to your tolerance for NVH. I have a high enough tolerance that the 3RS was a no brainier over the GT3 for me, but it will be different for every person. If you can test drive both, I would.

Also, I will echo A/S on the comments about getting the Dundon headers. I put the street headers on mine and the engine is just an absolute joy to listen to now and you get real added performance. It takes the stock sounding engine, which sounds great as is, and takes it to such a whole new level that I don't think I could go back to the stock sound again.

Seth Thomas

Yes to the Dundon Headers. I have had a set on both my 991.1 and 991.2 GT3 RS and there is no way I can go back to stock.

As for the difference in the 991.1 GT3 RS and 991.2 GT3 RS there is definitely a difference in the ride quality on the street. I do like the stiffer suspension of the .2 RS because that is what I really disliked about the .1 RS. I always stated from the time I first got my .1 that I felt the springs were too soft if you ever track the car. You can tell Porsche really went after making a more street friendly GT3 RS when they developed the 991.1 RS. Coming from a 997.2 RS into the 991.1 the noise inside the car was a lot less than my 997 and the ride quality was a lot better. You could daily drive the .1. Add a stiffer set of springs and a better shock setup to the .1 and it will really transform the car into 95% of what the .2RS is. I drove my .1 to trade it in to the dealer. On the same roads coming home you could feel the difference in stiffness of the springs on the .2 immediately. Was it too stiff for Ga roads? Not in my opinion. It was just right of what I like in a sports car of this caliber. If I were going to drive the car everyday maybe that would make a difference but I still would road trip my .2 even as it is. Road noise in the car is slightly higher than the .1 but I would say it compares more to how the 997 chassis was with road noise. I can have a conversation on bluetooth no problem and actually hear the radio in the car. The 997s and 996 I owned this was more of a struggle. The .1 was too quiet inside the car for my tastes.

Camisade

All good opinions and I value all the input. The various preferences, anecdotes, and comparisons help me calibrate. My GT2 was pretty loud inside, with much of the rear cabin insulation removed, a GMG 4" free flow exhaust, the new engine/xmsn mounts, and a lightweight flywheel (with their attendant rattle). So I can definitely tolerate some decibels in the interest of performance... louder road noise? Just amp up the stereo -- problem solved! ;-)

My only reservation about the headers (which I see from the Dundon web site provide an incredible performance gain -- much more than I would have expected on a NA engine!) would be that increased, lovely sound -- which I also personally adore -- can introduce complications at some tracks (for example, I've been flagged at the National Corvette Museum track in both my GT2 and Viper ACR for sound; the cars weren't really that loud, but seemingly growled with just the right resonances on cool mornings to trip the sound meter. I had to weld baffles into the tailpipes (or exhaust tips) to bring the sound down). Still, for those torque gains, it'd be worth considering, down the road!

...potentially another tick in favor of the .2 RS is that I've seen in other threads that people seem to be reporting less (or at least more even) tire wear at the track with the 991.2 than the .1's, with stock (or near stock) alignments. If so, that's a consideration for me, because the more track focused one goes with their alignment, the less friendly it often becomes on the street, in my experience, especially if you're running as much front rubber as you can fit.

...and we haven't even addressed that finding certified .1 RS's seems to be on par with finding hens teeth. It's not a *terrible* thing to have a couple/few years of warranty left! (unless I'm missing something, and Dealers or Porsche won't certify the RS's for some reason?)

AllAboutThatP

I believe that Dundon's modular exhaust tip system will allow you to put quiet tips on to avoid noise issues at the track. Jamie can probably confirm.

Spyder75

I have a 3RS with WP, PCCB and Mags. It is great on the road and the ride is far more compliant than I was expecting. I’d say it will be great for what you want it for.

Road noise is exceptional though!

I’m putting on the standard wheels with ps4s on this week so will be interesting to see (feel) the difference...