GT2 vs GT3RS vs GT3 Mega Test
10-24-2019, 12:17 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
The sound, the lack of immediacy and lack of rubbery feel in the throttle isn't for me.
Its faster, yes no doubt but I was a little let down each time I had to shift at 7 instead of 9K rpm.
It will eat more tires, rotors pads, fuel and lug water.
I see the extra torque as a challenge, extra work, not sure its more fun.
A few corners are no longer flat, and some corners that are flat from before the Apex really aren't anymore in a GT2RS.
Then there is the whole next level of going 170 instead of 150 mph in shorts with just a 3 point seat belt thing...
10-24-2019, 12:55 PM
#62
Rennlist Member
Its a super simple boring track, I think the very soft .1RS suspension worked there. Its smooth but its all about mechanical grip in those endless motorcycle corner.It would be so simple to redesign that track, it could add two corners and be a really good track for less then $200K in modifications.
Even on member days, that's nuts!?
I have driven there windows up, you just have to ask in the drivers meeting. I ask everywhere, every time.
Same with David Murry Days. PCA chapter in Florida has tried it, but is getting shut down by the relics that run PCA and are blind to world wide safer windows up rules.
Crazy thing is in racing its windows up mandatory, even AC mandatory. Manufacturers who do track days are all running windows up.
Its legally brave of these organizations to go against manufacturer recommendations.
COTA, Sebring, Daytona allow it.
Feel free to add any organizations and tracks that are confirmed to be OK windows up, I'm not willing to crack my gorilla glad rear window,
I have:
Sebring
PBIR sometimes
COTA
High Plains Raceway
Thermal (Private)
Spring Mountain
Watkins Glen
Daytona
VIR
Dominion
Mid Ohio
Brainard
Road America
Organizations:
Chin, when the track allows!
Audi club
PCA Nord Stern
Smart people.
Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're a little wrong, now you are so wrong, its off the charts.
That's exactly right. And dangerous.
1. No street cars were designed to crash or tested to crash at 100+ mph and factory safety systems irrelevant at and above these speeds and if air bags designed only for windows up I guess you never drive with windows down then when your not at the track. Ok 🙄 So...if your not exceeding highway speed at the track and driving with windows up , yup your good to go. 👍
2. You should really have a roll bar and 5 point belt at a min anyway. Air bag useless with right race safety equipment.
3. You tell me how stupid windows down is if your ever stuck in a damaged burning smoking car and can’t get the door open.
2. You should really have a roll bar and 5 point belt at a min anyway. Air bag useless with right race safety equipment.
3. You tell me how stupid windows down is if your ever stuck in a damaged burning smoking car and can’t get the door open.
Quote: Oliver Berg, Manager GT-Product Porsche
One option that is not recommended if you ever want to sell the car is air-conditioning delete. “Only 20 the 5,000 first generation 991 GT3 RS owners ticked the box for a/c delete,” said Oliver. “The fact is that while the 14kg weight saving might sound good on paper the discomfort you will experience when wearing a race suit and helmet on track in summer is simply not worth it. You will be hot and bothered and slower because you cannot concentrate as well compared to when you are cool and comfortable.”
http://9tro.com/media/features/new-c...1#content-page
http://9tro.com/media/features/new-c...2#content-page
2. OK, debatable but yes I agree, still safer with windows closed.
Point 3 is as dumb as saying you're not wearing a seat belt because you may end up upside down in a canal and you want to be free from the car asap.
If you spin a fairy tail caerful enough, you can find an unlikely scenario for windows down being safer.
These are the Pro's and Con's:
The rest of the world, FIA, IMSA all non USA tracks and manufacturers are in disagreement with the last US tracks holding out making us drive windows down mandatory.
- Manufacturers are so sure that windows up are safer in a crash that when there is an impending crash or the car is crashing, some cars close the windows automatically, so those will be closed anyway and a tool is needed.
- DE cars have no safety nets. Race cars are not allowed on track without them because flailing arms out of the car is too dangerous; Yet in DE it’s mandatory to stick your entire arm out of the car. Crazy.
- Point by’s at 150 MPH, LOL! We are supposed to extend our entire arm out the window and over the roof. Good luck with that at high speed parts of the track, specially beginners.
- Debris enters the cockpit hitting the driver causing injury and maybe even an incident, typically rubber coming off cars, but also car parts or other debris flying up left after other incidents.
- When crashing, its preferred not to die from sharp pieces flying into the car cutting neck.
- Side window glass is extremely strong for a reason, it helps the structure of the car, we have all seen the guys trying to break them by throwing bricks and failing. – Yes a little ceramic hammer the size of a fingernail breaks it easily.
- Cars are not build to go 150MPH with the windows down - Your head wobbles in the car due to turbulence, hard to focus on your marks and induces vertigo. In the Porsche 991 if you don’t add little foils on the A pillar to prevent the windows blow out.
- Cars are not build to go 150MPH with the windows down – rear windows have been known to blow out, the new rear Gorilla windows crack, potentially causing incidents.
- With the windows up the side airbag curtains are more effective.
- Heat stroke or just heat fatigue leads to accidents, for this reason IMSA and other race groups make AC mandatory in the closed cockpit cars. If you track in the SouthEast, you have had it or you know someone that has. Lack of concentration is the number 1 reason of crashing. Many are older, out of shape drivers. If they are puking getting out of the car, how focused where they ??!!
-It is safer to instruct – new student drivers have no business staking their hand off the wheel at modern car track speeds.
-Safety to instruct because communication with the student is easy, does not depend on unreliable head sets, even those aren't good enough to overcome wind noise often.
-Many shorts and tshirt only drivers would suit up in protective gear and full face helmets if they could keep the interior cool.
-Drivers can hear what the engine is doing instead of only hearing wind noise.
-Al manufacturers driving schools are operated with windows up for safety. They may be on to something.
-Driver safety during a crash should be primary. Extraction is the second thought however a net or glass barely slows extraction and helps the primary focus to limit injuries during the incident.
-Arm out the window – specifically some new drivers who give confusing signals are dangerous. A turn signal is clear, they are used to it and they get it right every time!
-It is silly for Track event organizers to make the decision for the drivers as opposed to give the drivers a choice – and thereby assume liability by going against manufacturers recommendations.
-The fact that each group makes certain exceptions for night driving, wet driving or for cars that have fixed windows, just adds to the negligence. As a DE chair I would want to be free of the responsibility and give the drivers a choice.
-Not so important but its nice when the car stays clean inside.
-Many US DE drivers are appalled by the enforced rules by some in the US that go against all ROW organizations.
The excuse:
Glass on the track, they prefer it to stay in your door. Well when the glass shatters, we got bigger problems that is going to require a cleanup anyway..
But mostly the reason for mandatory windows down is to extracate the driver from the car.
But actually with most race seats and it is impossible to get (a XXL size ) driver out of the car without the significant risk of further injury:
“only extricate a driver is there's imminent risk of a fire or visual major blood loss. Otherwise, the spine needs to be secure before moving the person."
That takes way longer than breaking glass. So, the argument of "prompt medical assistance "for the windows down falls short. It's borderline criminal to hastily remove someone from an accident without reasonable reason (fire, visual blood loss or clinical findings of so).
Never mind trying to yank an insured driver out of side window opening.
For a layman to do that, Good Samaritan laws may provide some coverage, for professionals on track in a paid function, doing that for a living, in not so sure.
Lets hope more and more people ask about if before signing up and in drivers briefings.
Often it is as simple as asking and taking 10 minutes to discuss it with the track manager of the day.
The following 3 users liked this post by TRAKCAR:
The following users liked this post:
joejenie (10-25-2019)
10-24-2019, 07:25 PM
#64
Nordschleife Master
Thank you Its a super simple boring track, I think the very soft .1RS suspension worked there. Its smooth but its all about mechanical grip in those endless motorcycle corner.
It would be so simple to redesign that track, it could add two corners and be a really good track for less then $200K in modifications.
This was January 2016, they are catching on now I'm sure. Who is going to pay a membership to sweat ***** off for 8 months a year!?
Even on member days, that's nuts!?
I have driven there windows up, you just have to ask in the drivers meeting. I ask everywhere, every time.
Chin is probably the best and most successful HPDE company in the US, they allow windows up, as long as the track allows it.
Same with David Murry Days. PCA chapter in Florida has tried it, but is getting shut down by the relics that run PCA and are blind to world wide safer windows up rules.
Crazy thing is in racing its windows up mandatory, even AC mandatory. Manufacturers who do track days are all running windows up.
Its legally brave of these organizations to go against manufacturer recommendations.
COTA, Sebring, Daytona allow it.
Feel free to add any organizations and tracks that are confirmed to be OK windows up, I'm not willing to crack my gorilla glad rear window,
I have:
Sebring
PBIR sometimes
COTA
High Plains Raceway
Thermal (Private)
Spring Mountain
Watkins Glen
Daytona
VIR
Dominion
Mid Ohio
Brainard
Road America
Organizations:
Chin, when the track allows!
Audi club
PCA Nord Stern
Smart people.
Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're a little wrong, now you are so wrong, its off the charts.
That's exactly right. And dangerous.
Its something old guys are hanging onto from the old days, there is no reason I've heard that makes any sense any longer in modern cars at all, but even old cars are safer windows up.
Its both, they like to point the finger at each other but in the end its the Track, often its OK but you have to ask, if its the organization than we can vote with our dollars and not go if they are not willing to make it work.
1. Your windows may crack, Porsche runs windows closed on all their events, mandatory. I go with manufacturers recommendation.
Quote: Oliver Berg, Manager GT-Product Porsche
One option that is not recommended if you ever want to sell the car is air-conditioning delete. “Only 20 the 5,000 first generation 991 GT3 RS owners ticked the box for a/c delete,” said Oliver. “The fact is that while the 14kg weight saving might sound good on paper the discomfort you will experience when wearing a race suit and helmet on track in summer is simply not worth it. You will be hot and bothered and slower because you cannot concentrate as well compared to when you are cool and comfortable.”
http://9tro.com/media/features/new-c...1#content-page
http://9tro.com/media/features/new-c...2#content-page
2. OK, debatable but yes I agree, still safer with windows closed.
Point 3 is as dumb as saying you're not wearing a seat belt because you may end up upside down in a canal and you want to be free from the car asap.
If you spin a fairy tail caerful enough, you can find an unlikely scenario for windows down being safer.
These are the Pro's and Con's:
The rest of the world, FIA, IMSA all non USA tracks and manufacturers are in disagreement with the last US tracks holding out making us drive windows down mandatory.
- Manufacturers are so sure that windows up are safer in a crash that when there is an impending crash or the car is crashing, some cars close the windows automatically, so those will be closed anyway and a tool is needed.
- DE cars have no safety nets. Race cars are not allowed on track without them because flailing arms out of the car is too dangerous; Yet in DE it’s mandatory to stick your entire arm out of the car. Crazy.
- Point by’s at 150 MPH, LOL! We are supposed to extend our entire arm out the window and over the roof. Good luck with that at high speed parts of the track, specially beginners.
- Debris enters the cockpit hitting the driver causing injury and maybe even an incident, typically rubber coming off cars, but also car parts or other debris flying up left after other incidents.
- When crashing, its preferred not to die from sharp pieces flying into the car cutting neck.
- Side window glass is extremely strong for a reason, it helps the structure of the car, we have all seen the guys trying to break them by throwing bricks and failing. – Yes a little ceramic hammer the size of a fingernail breaks it easily.
- Cars are not build to go 150MPH with the windows down - Your head wobbles in the car due to turbulence, hard to focus on your marks and induces vertigo. In the Porsche 991 if you don’t add little foils on the A pillar to prevent the windows blow out.
- Cars are not build to go 150MPH with the windows down – rear windows have been known to blow out, the new rear Gorilla windows crack, potentially causing incidents.
- With the windows up the side airbag curtains are more effective.
- Heat stroke or just heat fatigue leads to accidents, for this reason IMSA and other race groups make AC mandatory in the closed cockpit cars. If you track in the SouthEast, you have had it or you know someone that has. Lack of concentration is the number 1 reason of crashing. Many are older, out of shape drivers. If they are puking getting out of the car, how focused where they ??!!
-It is safer to instruct – new student drivers have no business staking their hand off the wheel at modern car track speeds.
-Safety to instruct because communication with the student is easy, does not depend on unreliable head sets, even those aren't good enough to overcome wind noise often.
-Many shorts and tshirt only drivers would suit up in protective gear and full face helmets if they could keep the interior cool.
-Drivers can hear what the engine is doing instead of only hearing wind noise.
-Al manufacturers driving schools are operated with windows up for safety. They may be on to something.
-Driver safety during a crash should be primary. Extraction is the second thought however a net or glass barely slows extraction and helps the primary focus to limit injuries during the incident.
-Arm out the window – specifically some new drivers who give confusing signals are dangerous. A turn signal is clear, they are used to it and they get it right every time!
-It is silly for Track event organizers to make the decision for the drivers as opposed to give the drivers a choice – and thereby assume liability by going against manufacturers recommendations.
-The fact that each group makes certain exceptions for night driving, wet driving or for cars that have fixed windows, just adds to the negligence. As a DE chair I would want to be free of the responsibility and give the drivers a choice.
-Not so important but its nice when the car stays clean inside.
-Many US DE drivers are appalled by the enforced rules by some in the US that go against all ROW organizations.
The excuse:
Glass on the track, they prefer it to stay in your door. Well when the glass shatters, we got bigger problems that is going to require a cleanup anyway..
But mostly the reason for mandatory windows down is to extracate the driver from the car.
But actually with most race seats and it is impossible to get (a XXL size ) driver out of the car without the significant risk of further injury:
“only extricate a driver is there's imminent risk of a fire or visual major blood loss. Otherwise, the spine needs to be secure before moving the person."
That takes way longer than breaking glass. So, the argument of "prompt medical assistance "for the windows down falls short. It's borderline criminal to hastily remove someone from an accident without reasonable reason (fire, visual blood loss or clinical findings of so).
Never mind trying to yank an insured driver out of side window opening.
For a layman to do that, Good Samaritan laws may provide some coverage, for professionals on track in a paid function, doing that for a living, in not so sure.
Lets hope more and more people ask about if before signing up and in drivers briefings.
Often it is as simple as asking and taking 10 minutes to discuss it with the track manager of the day.
Its a super simple boring track, I think the very soft .1RS suspension worked there. Its smooth but its all about mechanical grip in those endless motorcycle corner.It would be so simple to redesign that track, it could add two corners and be a really good track for less then $200K in modifications.
This was January 2016, they are catching on now I'm sure. Who is going to pay a membership to sweat ***** off for 8 months a year!?
Even on member days, that's nuts!?
I have driven there windows up, you just have to ask in the drivers meeting. I ask everywhere, every time.
Chin is probably the best and most successful HPDE company in the US, they allow windows up, as long as the track allows it.
Same with David Murry Days. PCA chapter in Florida has tried it, but is getting shut down by the relics that run PCA and are blind to world wide safer windows up rules.
Crazy thing is in racing its windows up mandatory, even AC mandatory. Manufacturers who do track days are all running windows up.
Its legally brave of these organizations to go against manufacturer recommendations.
COTA, Sebring, Daytona allow it.
Feel free to add any organizations and tracks that are confirmed to be OK windows up, I'm not willing to crack my gorilla glad rear window,
I have:
Sebring
PBIR sometimes
COTA
High Plains Raceway
Thermal (Private)
Spring Mountain
Watkins Glen
Daytona
VIR
Dominion
Mid Ohio
Brainard
Road America
Organizations:
Chin, when the track allows!
Audi club
PCA Nord Stern
Smart people.
Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're a little wrong, now you are so wrong, its off the charts.
That's exactly right. And dangerous.
Its something old guys are hanging onto from the old days, there is no reason I've heard that makes any sense any longer in modern cars at all, but even old cars are safer windows up.
Its both, they like to point the finger at each other but in the end its the Track, often its OK but you have to ask, if its the organization than we can vote with our dollars and not go if they are not willing to make it work.
1. Your windows may crack, Porsche runs windows closed on all their events, mandatory. I go with manufacturers recommendation.
Quote: Oliver Berg, Manager GT-Product Porsche
One option that is not recommended if you ever want to sell the car is air-conditioning delete. “Only 20 the 5,000 first generation 991 GT3 RS owners ticked the box for a/c delete,” said Oliver. “The fact is that while the 14kg weight saving might sound good on paper the discomfort you will experience when wearing a race suit and helmet on track in summer is simply not worth it. You will be hot and bothered and slower because you cannot concentrate as well compared to when you are cool and comfortable.”
http://9tro.com/media/features/new-c...1#content-page
http://9tro.com/media/features/new-c...2#content-page
2. OK, debatable but yes I agree, still safer with windows closed.
Point 3 is as dumb as saying you're not wearing a seat belt because you may end up upside down in a canal and you want to be free from the car asap.
If you spin a fairy tail caerful enough, you can find an unlikely scenario for windows down being safer.
These are the Pro's and Con's:
The rest of the world, FIA, IMSA all non USA tracks and manufacturers are in disagreement with the last US tracks holding out making us drive windows down mandatory.
- Manufacturers are so sure that windows up are safer in a crash that when there is an impending crash or the car is crashing, some cars close the windows automatically, so those will be closed anyway and a tool is needed.
- DE cars have no safety nets. Race cars are not allowed on track without them because flailing arms out of the car is too dangerous; Yet in DE it’s mandatory to stick your entire arm out of the car. Crazy.
- Point by’s at 150 MPH, LOL! We are supposed to extend our entire arm out the window and over the roof. Good luck with that at high speed parts of the track, specially beginners.
- Debris enters the cockpit hitting the driver causing injury and maybe even an incident, typically rubber coming off cars, but also car parts or other debris flying up left after other incidents.
- When crashing, its preferred not to die from sharp pieces flying into the car cutting neck.
- Side window glass is extremely strong for a reason, it helps the structure of the car, we have all seen the guys trying to break them by throwing bricks and failing. – Yes a little ceramic hammer the size of a fingernail breaks it easily.
- Cars are not build to go 150MPH with the windows down - Your head wobbles in the car due to turbulence, hard to focus on your marks and induces vertigo. In the Porsche 991 if you don’t add little foils on the A pillar to prevent the windows blow out.
- Cars are not build to go 150MPH with the windows down – rear windows have been known to blow out, the new rear Gorilla windows crack, potentially causing incidents.
- With the windows up the side airbag curtains are more effective.
- Heat stroke or just heat fatigue leads to accidents, for this reason IMSA and other race groups make AC mandatory in the closed cockpit cars. If you track in the SouthEast, you have had it or you know someone that has. Lack of concentration is the number 1 reason of crashing. Many are older, out of shape drivers. If they are puking getting out of the car, how focused where they ??!!
-It is safer to instruct – new student drivers have no business staking their hand off the wheel at modern car track speeds.
-Safety to instruct because communication with the student is easy, does not depend on unreliable head sets, even those aren't good enough to overcome wind noise often.
-Many shorts and tshirt only drivers would suit up in protective gear and full face helmets if they could keep the interior cool.
-Drivers can hear what the engine is doing instead of only hearing wind noise.
-Al manufacturers driving schools are operated with windows up for safety. They may be on to something.
-Driver safety during a crash should be primary. Extraction is the second thought however a net or glass barely slows extraction and helps the primary focus to limit injuries during the incident.
-Arm out the window – specifically some new drivers who give confusing signals are dangerous. A turn signal is clear, they are used to it and they get it right every time!
-It is silly for Track event organizers to make the decision for the drivers as opposed to give the drivers a choice – and thereby assume liability by going against manufacturers recommendations.
-The fact that each group makes certain exceptions for night driving, wet driving or for cars that have fixed windows, just adds to the negligence. As a DE chair I would want to be free of the responsibility and give the drivers a choice.
-Not so important but its nice when the car stays clean inside.
-Many US DE drivers are appalled by the enforced rules by some in the US that go against all ROW organizations.
The excuse:
Glass on the track, they prefer it to stay in your door. Well when the glass shatters, we got bigger problems that is going to require a cleanup anyway..
But mostly the reason for mandatory windows down is to extracate the driver from the car.
But actually with most race seats and it is impossible to get (a XXL size ) driver out of the car without the significant risk of further injury:
“only extricate a driver is there's imminent risk of a fire or visual major blood loss. Otherwise, the spine needs to be secure before moving the person."
That takes way longer than breaking glass. So, the argument of "prompt medical assistance "for the windows down falls short. It's borderline criminal to hastily remove someone from an accident without reasonable reason (fire, visual blood loss or clinical findings of so).
Never mind trying to yank an insured driver out of side window opening.
For a layman to do that, Good Samaritan laws may provide some coverage, for professionals on track in a paid function, doing that for a living, in not so sure.
Lets hope more and more people ask about if before signing up and in drivers briefings.
Often it is as simple as asking and taking 10 minutes to discuss it with the track manager of the day.
Maybe I’ll use the side nets from now on. Problem will be point bys.
A lot of organizations require hand signals for point bys.
Last edited by Waxer; 10-24-2019 at 08:27 PM.
10-25-2019, 01:56 AM
#65
The Pista Press Edition is amazing, with its additional horsepower, lower weight and "Track Claw" soaked Cup2-R.
Here it is producing nearly 2g of lateral grip in slow turns where downforce doesn't play at all. My 300 lbs lighter, much higher downforce GT3RS on true slicks (Pirelli) or Hoosiers is not even touching 1.8g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtLIAuj9Xe4
The Pista Customers Edition comes with true street tires, it doesn't produce nearly 2g of lateral grip, weighs a lot, it doesn't have the Press-car ECU tune, and I just timed one at PBIR a few weeks ago (owned by a Ferrari Challenge racer) at 1:26, a pretty decent lap time, but not as fast as the Press car could do.
Here it is producing nearly 2g of lateral grip in slow turns where downforce doesn't play at all. My 300 lbs lighter, much higher downforce GT3RS on true slicks (Pirelli) or Hoosiers is not even touching 1.8g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtLIAuj9Xe4
The Pista Customers Edition comes with true street tires, it doesn't produce nearly 2g of lateral grip, weighs a lot, it doesn't have the Press-car ECU tune, and I just timed one at PBIR a few weeks ago (owned by a Ferrari Challenge racer) at 1:26, a pretty decent lap time, but not as fast as the Press car could do.
10-25-2019, 08:54 AM
#66
Nordschleife Master
Motorsport Magazine actually confirmed it was a custumer car (I'm assuming that it's the same car in both videos). Here it is at the GP track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2Opne_k3Og
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2Opne_k3Og
I guess Ferrari doesn’t use its press car for the press anymore with its additional power and lower weight they now use what you can actually buy. Lol.
i would expect a car that runs those times at Angelsey and Magney Cours GP to run better than 1:26 at PBIR. No?
Last edited by Waxer; 10-25-2019 at 09:29 AM.
10-25-2019, 12:34 PM
#67
Burning Brakes
Motorsport Magazine actually confirmed it was a custumer car (I'm assuming that it's the same car in both videos). Here it is at the GP track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2Opne_k3Og
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2Opne_k3Og
Now, look a TRAKCAR's awesome lap in a much lighter car (991.1 GT3RS), on much wider tires (Cup2 265/325), and see if at any time the GT3RS gets to 2g or anywhere close to that.
I run on true race tires most of the time: Michelin and Pirelli slicks, Hoosier R7/A7, none of these tires have been able to produce 2g or 1.9g or 1.8g in my 300 lbs lighter 991.2 GT3RS, and they stick much more than a MPSC2-R.
Ferrari doesn't send cars to the media without factory support. From actual testers here in U.S. in California (a company that tests cars for multiple car magazines), Ferrari would send one car for the acceleration/braking tests and another car for the handling tests. They would supply their own tires too.
This has been going on for ages, and escalated with the Turbo cars. But even before Turbos, look at a dyno chart from a customer 458 and check the dyno chart from a press car. When R&T dynoed (without FNA approval) a 458, the car put nearly 500whp, ran the 1/4 mile in 10.9 at 133mph. No customer 458 Italia has been any close to those 1/4 mile times, trap speeds, or dyno numbers.
For entertainment, this is a video from TRAKCAR's Nation YouTube Channel, at Magny Cours, look at the difference in g-forces. The Pista is using a VBox, I have the same equipment, it has internal accelerometers and puts data pretty close to what my AIM transponder reports to official timing.
10-25-2019, 03:38 PM
#68
Magazines will say what Ferrari wants them to say. If you want to believe it was a customer car running those times go right ahead.
I guess Ferrari doesn’t use its press car for the press anymore with its additional power and lower weight they now use what you can actually buy. Lol.
i would expect a car that runs those times at Angelsey and Magney Cours GP to run better than 1:26 at PBIR. No?
I guess Ferrari doesn’t use its press car for the press anymore with its additional power and lower weight they now use what you can actually buy. Lol.
i would expect a car that runs those times at Angelsey and Magney Cours GP to run better than 1:26 at PBIR. No?
Ferrari might still be tweaking their cars like they used to do back in the day but I know of several stock customer 488's for example that has posted better acceleration times than the press ever did. That may mean nothing when it comes to that Pista at Magney Cours but I'd like some more meat on the bones before I start calling everyone a liar and a cheater.
10-25-2019, 04:33 PM
#69
Burning Brakes
Ferrari might still be tweaking their cars like they used to do back in the day but I know of several stock customer 488's for example that has posted better acceleration times than the press ever did. That may mean nothing when it comes to that Pista at Magney Cours but I'd like some more meat on the bones before I start calling everyone a liar and a cheater.
Lots of F430, 458, 488, F12, Speciale customer cars, with videos and data.
My previous Ferraris have been on the scales, on the dyno, ran the 1/4 mile at PBIR, and none of them could remotely get close to what car magazines were getting on their tests. Ferrari claimed weights vs. my car weights were hundreds of pounds apart, not just a few pounds.
We get 488 a dime a dozen at PBIR on the drag strip, they trap around 126mph +2/-2 mph. That's 124-128mph, reaction times and 1/4 mile times are all over the place because most drivers are there to have fun and they are no Pro-Drag racers, but trap speeds show the strength of an engine/transmission.
A bone stock 2018 GT3 traps at 127mph, yet the 660Hp with a lot more torque 488 can barely touch the same speed, and yet the 458 Italia below trapped at 132.5mph.
Feel free to post customer cars weight, horsepower, lap times or acceleration data with videos, if you can find them.
10-25-2019, 04:58 PM
#70
Nordschleife Master
Well first off I wouldn't make a comparision like that in the first place. The laps at Angelsey and MC are both time attacks made on an empty track with a full video, probably with fresh tires and low fuel while the only info we have from your example is a random lap time from a public track day.
Ferrari might still be tweaking their cars like they used to do back in the day but I know of several stock customer 488's for example that has posted better acceleration times than the press ever did. That may mean nothing when it comes to that Pista at Magney Cours but I'd like some more meat on the bones before I start calling everyone a liar and a cheater.
Ferrari might still be tweaking their cars like they used to do back in the day but I know of several stock customer 488's for example that has posted better acceleration times than the press ever did. That may mean nothing when it comes to that Pista at Magney Cours but I'd like some more meat on the bones before I start calling everyone a liar and a cheater.
10-25-2019, 11:14 PM
#71
I have both 3RS and 2RS , so not biased to either or . Both are terrific cars but honestly the only thing the 3RS beats its bigger brother is sound . Performance in the 2RS is on another level - the frickin car is a monster - the combination of mega power and excellent handling and traction is addicting.
the car is really way too fast for most of the drivers - me included !
but its a blast , i love both very much .
if i can only find an nice exhaust for the 2RS i would sell the 3rs really. Its just the straight line acceleration is a bit lacking in the 3 ! But i still love it.
looks also are a big thing for the 2 , the car looks very special ! In WP spec .
the car is really way too fast for most of the drivers - me included !
but its a blast , i love both very much .
if i can only find an nice exhaust for the 2RS i would sell the 3rs really. Its just the straight line acceleration is a bit lacking in the 3 ! But i still love it.
looks also are a big thing for the 2 , the car looks very special ! In WP spec .
Last edited by Hex; 10-26-2019 at 12:31 AM.
10-26-2019, 10:36 AM
#72
Nordschleife Master
Funny, my experience is just the opposite. I too have both. I sold my first .2 3RS thinking I would keep the 2RS because it’s faster, etc. Then I missed the .2 3RS so much that I bought another one. After driving them back to back, logging 100’s of miles in each over the course of a couple of weeks, I have decided to sell the 2RS and to add a Ferrari 812 Superfast as a stable mate to my .2 3RS. Yes the 2RS is bonkers and an amazing machine, but the little .2 3RS is more visceral, carries more cornet speed, is lighter, stops quicker and has body lines that look more sharp edged compared to the rather bulbous looking 2RS. And, as you say, the sound of the normally aspirated .2 3RS, reving to 9000 rpm, makes the exhaust note of the 2 RS seem dull by comparison. I must admit, as you can clearly see in some of my replies in previous treads, that I have been a big advocate for the 2RS over the .2 3RS but I have now changed my mind. In fact, the normally aspirated goodness of the .2 3RS was a strong persuader in my choice to purchase the Ferrari 812 Superfast, which by the way, is an astonishing car from Ferrari with its 12 cylinder normally aspirated engine that is truly a masterpiece of automotive engineering. But, that’s a topic for another thread.
😁
10-26-2019, 12:08 PM
#74
Funny, my experience is just the opposite. I too have both. I sold my first .2 3RS thinking I would keep the 2RS because it’s faster, etc. Then I missed the .2 3RS so much that I bought another one. After driving them back to back, logging 100’s of miles in each over the course of a couple of weeks, I have decided to sell the 2RS and to add a Ferrari 812 Superfast as a stable mate to my .2 3RS. Yes the 2RS is bonkers and an amazing machine, but the little .2 3RS is more visceral, carries more cornet speed, is lighter, stops quicker and has body lines that look more sharp edged compared to the rather bulbous looking 2RS. And, as you say, the sound of the normally aspirated .2 3RS, reving to 9000 rpm, makes the exhaust note of the 2 RS seem dull by comparison. I must admit, as you can clearly see in some of my replies in previous treads, that I have been a big advocate for the 2RS over the .2 3RS but I have now changed my mind. In fact, the normally aspirated goodness of the .2 3RS was a strong persuader in my choice to purchase the Ferrari 812 Superfast, which by the way, is an astonishing car from Ferrari with its 12 cylinder normally aspirated engine that is truly a masterpiece of automotive engineering. But, that’s a topic for another thread.
straight line performance is a big thing for me. Its just the way it is .
10-26-2019, 12:36 PM
#75
Nordschleife Master
well , i respectfully disagree , my feelings are completely the opposite , i love the 3 but thinking about letting it go and keeping the 2RS. Will probably be looking into a 812 ferrari early next year.
straight line performance is a big thing for me. Its just the way it is .
straight line performance is a big thing for me. Its just the way it is .