Speedster or GT2RS
05-27-2019 | 05:49 PM
#61
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,577
Likes: 26
From: Illinois
Fully agree. 
CGT have no Front Air Lift thus the inevitable scraping if you did not plan your route trip. Without a doubt CGT is a special car. 
918 is more usable indeed. Regardless either car is unique in its own identity and features, and will draw a crowd.
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
CGT have no Front Air Lift thus the inevitable scraping if you did not plan your route trip. Without a doubt CGT is a special car. 918 is more usable indeed. Regardless either car is unique in its own identity and features, and will draw a crowd.
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
If it comes down to it, I would keep the 918 because you can actually drive it around. In my opinion, the 918 is one of the best overall supercar. CGT excels in certain areas, but overall, I rate the 918 higher than the CGT. This is not some car journalist or Youtubers doing a 15mins video review. This is after years of ownership of both cars.
The CGT is a special occasion car, meaning unless you don't give a crap about your car, you would literally scrape and bottom out everywhere. You need to plan where you go with the CGT, including which specific gas stations, which plazas you could park at, and which canyons you can drive on.
The CGT is a special occasion car, meaning unless you don't give a crap about your car, you would literally scrape and bottom out everywhere. You need to plan where you go with the CGT, including which specific gas stations, which plazas you could park at, and which canyons you can drive on.
05-27-2019 | 06:02 PM
#62
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,255
Likes: 1,014
From: Los Angeles/Taipei
Here is my two cent. In the Porsche world, I think the 918 is the deal of the century. Full stop. Car is impeccably engineered with great build quality/finish and the value of the car will appreciate over time. The VIP program is just icing on the cake.
While the 918 recall is very public information and Porsche has been very forthcoming about them, the Mclaren P1 has had so many issues but none of the owners will share them in the public domain. I know of 5 owners (personal friends of mine, not including SR) that has had numerous issues on their P1 (two batteries overheated on track due to design flaw and had to be replaced, one got locked inside his car, cracked exhaust pipe, cracked windshield, AC stops working, etc etc). I was on the list for the P1 and after driving it on Dunsfold and it just felt to me as a glorified MP4-12C. P1 is very exciting to drive, Mclaren has gotten most of the key elements dialed in correctly with the exception of the braking system. P1 is a more driver's car than the 918, but it wasn't engineered properly. Don't get me started on the battery cooling design or the placement of the battery hybrid system.
As for the LaFerrari, I believe it's the best looking of the holy trinity and if I was a big fish in the Ferrari world (which I am not), I would buy one at MSRP in a heart beat. That's a no brainer for me! That Ferrari V12 is something very special. I drove my friend's LaFerrari and had plenty of seat time as a passenger and I feel like the Ferrari would be just as capable on track as the 918/P1 if it had some Cup 2 tires instead of the crappy Corsas.
It's been 5 years since the holy trinity came out, and among my group of friends, only the LaFerrari and the 918 are still mentioned in our discussion of cars. My 5 friends who owned the P1, 4 of them sold their cars. Nobody talks about the P1 anymore because frankly, it's just another turbo v8 car. Mclaren did the P1 no favor at all when it came out with the 720S (and then later, the Senna), which is what I call a "two generation" car. The 720 is so fast, so well engineered (Mclaren still needs to work on its build quality), it forced Ferrari to speed up its product cycle and came out with the F8 Tributo (which uses the Pista engine).
Give it another 5-10 years time, and let's see where the P1 stand in history with its turbo V8 compared to the NA engines in the 918 (9150rpm) or the LaFerrari (9250rpm).
P.S. Since the first batch of 918 has just gone out of warranty, I guess we will find out first hand at how expensive the 918 is to maintain vs. the CGT. My last CGT major service bill was 33K (including a new clutch) and when it's time for the next major service, I will probably need to redo the transmission because the CGT second gear synchro is notoriously ****ty. Of course, you wouldn't know because your friend's CGT is literally "brand new"
While the 918 recall is very public information and Porsche has been very forthcoming about them, the Mclaren P1 has had so many issues but none of the owners will share them in the public domain. I know of 5 owners (personal friends of mine, not including SR) that has had numerous issues on their P1 (two batteries overheated on track due to design flaw and had to be replaced, one got locked inside his car, cracked exhaust pipe, cracked windshield, AC stops working, etc etc). I was on the list for the P1 and after driving it on Dunsfold and it just felt to me as a glorified MP4-12C. P1 is very exciting to drive, Mclaren has gotten most of the key elements dialed in correctly with the exception of the braking system. P1 is a more driver's car than the 918, but it wasn't engineered properly. Don't get me started on the battery cooling design or the placement of the battery hybrid system.
As for the LaFerrari, I believe it's the best looking of the holy trinity and if I was a big fish in the Ferrari world (which I am not), I would buy one at MSRP in a heart beat. That's a no brainer for me! That Ferrari V12 is something very special. I drove my friend's LaFerrari and had plenty of seat time as a passenger and I feel like the Ferrari would be just as capable on track as the 918/P1 if it had some Cup 2 tires instead of the crappy Corsas.
It's been 5 years since the holy trinity came out, and among my group of friends, only the LaFerrari and the 918 are still mentioned in our discussion of cars. My 5 friends who owned the P1, 4 of them sold their cars. Nobody talks about the P1 anymore because frankly, it's just another turbo v8 car. Mclaren did the P1 no favor at all when it came out with the 720S (and then later, the Senna), which is what I call a "two generation" car. The 720 is so fast, so well engineered (Mclaren still needs to work on its build quality), it forced Ferrari to speed up its product cycle and came out with the F8 Tributo (which uses the Pista engine).
Give it another 5-10 years time, and let's see where the P1 stand in history with its turbo V8 compared to the NA engines in the 918 (9150rpm) or the LaFerrari (9250rpm).
P.S. Since the first batch of 918 has just gone out of warranty, I guess we will find out first hand at how expensive the 918 is to maintain vs. the CGT. My last CGT major service bill was 33K (including a new clutch) and when it's time for the next major service, I will probably need to redo the transmission because the CGT second gear synchro is notoriously ****ty. Of course, you wouldn't know because your friend's CGT is literally "brand new"
Just a point on the holy trinity... 918 doesn't hold a candle to P1 & LaF.. if you could purchase all three at MSRP, there is not a chance in hell you'd pick the 918 vs the LaF.. its closer between P1 & 918 but still, 918 is a very remote feeling car and doesn't give nearly the same driving experience as the other two.. it's been said many times I know, but 918 is like a videogame set to "easy" mode. P1 is Alive with the classic superior mclaren steering feel and while it can feel a bit raw (in an unfinished product sort of way), it's an event every time you drive. The LaF, that thing is just sublime... next level, best sound, dynamically balanced, you don't feel the (significantly lighter) weight, perfectly finished. Dynamically Superior, best brakes.. not a contest. the only advantage 918 has is if you had bought all three hypercars, is that it opened up the owner to the world of MSRP Porsches for 10 years, but aside from the 918 VIP program.. mmmm, I'm not sure sure the 918 would be the top one at all.
On the point of CGT maintenance costs vs 918... 918 is on a magnitude higher than CGT.. check the recall bills for the SEVEN recalls the 918 has had before warranty ran out.. the out of warranty expense of owning that hybrid technical tour de force is going to a world away from CGT which is relatively simple to work on in that context. Not sure where you got $40k to replace battery, add a zero and you're not too far off, again, just the current recalls with engine out where next level. CGT remains the "son of F1" on the desirability and "keepability" scale.. it's truly the last analog supercar and while there will be other faster hybrid/electric/1000hp+ machines for years, nothing but nothing will surpass the CGT for driving pleasure.
I'm still trying to find time to make the CGT vs 918 video we shot on the Dragon during Smokies, I want to get the editing just right as it's such a rare direct comparo with both cars being driven at 8/10ths+, that it has to be gotten right.
But, back on track with this thread.. hypercars are such a different world from "normal" supercars stuff like gt2rs & speedster, not sure how they even fit in this thread convo.
On the point of CGT maintenance costs vs 918... 918 is on a magnitude higher than CGT.. check the recall bills for the SEVEN recalls the 918 has had before warranty ran out.. the out of warranty expense of owning that hybrid technical tour de force is going to a world away from CGT which is relatively simple to work on in that context. Not sure where you got $40k to replace battery, add a zero and you're not too far off, again, just the current recalls with engine out where next level. CGT remains the "son of F1" on the desirability and "keepability" scale.. it's truly the last analog supercar and while there will be other faster hybrid/electric/1000hp+ machines for years, nothing but nothing will surpass the CGT for driving pleasure.
I'm still trying to find time to make the CGT vs 918 video we shot on the Dragon during Smokies, I want to get the editing just right as it's such a rare direct comparo with both cars being driven at 8/10ths+, that it has to be gotten right.
But, back on track with this thread.. hypercars are such a different world from "normal" supercars stuff like gt2rs & speedster, not sure how they even fit in this thread convo.
Last edited by unotaz; 05-27-2019 at 06:19 PM.
05-27-2019 | 06:21 PM
#63
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,577
Likes: 26
From: Illinois
Just as a refresher, Top Gear produced the show "Holy Trinity" Grand Tour Season-1 Episode-1. Same track, same day, same driver. All factory spec'd. It can be viewed at Amazon Prime Movie. If you don't have it, it is free for 30 trial days.
Guess who ended at the top?
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
LINK:
Guess who ended at the top?
Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1
LINK:
05-27-2019 | 06:26 PM
#64
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,255
Likes: 1,014
From: Los Angeles/Taipei
Agreed 100%
Don't agree with that - depends what you want (and I did put my money where my mouth is...). The 918 is a brilliant cross country GT car, and much more all-round useable than the others. Maybe the best Gt car yet made, and level of engineering excellence is much higher than the other two of the 'trinity', IMO.
CGT is a special car, and much more exciting and, but again is less useable than a 918.
They are all very different, but even now the 918 is the only one i'd consider buying (again) of the 3 most recent, albeit a CGT would be first in line.
Agree it is going to be very expensive to maintain out of warranty, and 2 major fixes, on Porsche's tab, were a big part of why I sold it.
CGT is a special car, and much more exciting and, but again is less useable than a 918.
They are all very different, but even now the 918 is the only one i'd consider buying (again) of the 3 most recent, albeit a CGT would be first in line.
Agree it is going to be very expensive to maintain out of warranty, and 2 major fixes, on Porsche's tab, were a big part of why I sold it.
05-27-2019 | 06:28 PM
#65
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 60
Likes: 57
From: NY
If it comes down to it, I would keep the 918 because you can actually drive it around. In my opinion, the 918 is one of the best overall supercar. CGT excels in certain areas, but overall, I rate the 918 higher than the CGT. This is not some car journalist or Youtubers doing a 15mins video review. This is after years of ownership of both cars.
The CGT is a special occasion car, meaning unless you don't give a crap about your car, you would literally scrape and bottom out everywhere. You need to plan where you go with the CGT, including which specific gas stations, which plazas you could park at, and which canyons you can drive on.
The CGT is a special occasion car, meaning unless you don't give a crap about your car, you would literally scrape and bottom out everywhere. You need to plan where you go with the CGT, including which specific gas stations, which plazas you could park at, and which canyons you can drive on.
05-27-2019 | 06:53 PM
#66
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,082
Likes: 1,864
From: 29464
To bring this thread somewhat back on topic ...
Cars like the CGT are a thing of the past, with all the regulations Porsche couldn't build a street legal one today even if they wanted to.
In a way this 991 Speedster is a toned down descendent of it. A naturally aspirated manual tranny open top with a GT engine. It's a bit of a stretch, you won't get the cup car connection to the road or a Le Mans engine screaming behind you, but it is as close as you're going to get in 2019 from Porsche or any other manufacturer.
Cars like the CGT are a thing of the past, with all the regulations Porsche couldn't build a street legal one today even if they wanted to.
In a way this 991 Speedster is a toned down descendent of it. A naturally aspirated manual tranny open top with a GT engine. It's a bit of a stretch, you won't get the cup car connection to the road or a Le Mans engine screaming behind you, but it is as close as you're going to get in 2019 from Porsche or any other manufacturer.
05-27-2019 | 11:39 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,917
Likes: 1,328
From: ^ The Bay Bridge
If it comes down to it, I would keep the 918 because you can actually drive it around. In my opinion, the 918 is one of the best overall supercar. CGT excels in certain areas, but overall, I rate the 918 higher than the CGT. This is not some car journalist or Youtubers doing a 15mins video review. This is after years of ownership of both cars.
The CGT is a special occasion car, meaning unless you don't give a crap about your car, you would literally scrape and bottom out everywhere. You need to plan where you go with the CGT, including which specific gas stations, which plazas you could park at, and which canyons you can drive on.
The CGT is a special occasion car, meaning unless you don't give a crap about your car, you would literally scrape and bottom out everywhere. You need to plan where you go with the CGT, including which specific gas stations, which plazas you could park at, and which canyons you can drive on.
I've said it many times: The 918 is a much better car, and a MUCH better car for most customers. However, I'd still take the CGT…
To bring this thread somewhat back on topic ...
Cars like the CGT are a thing of the past, with all the regulations Porsche couldn't build a street legal one today even if they wanted to.
In a way this 991 Speedster is a toned down descendent of it. A naturally aspirated manual tranny open top with a GT engine. It's a bit of a stretch, you won't get the cup car connection to the road or a Le Mans engine screaming behind you, but it is as close as you're going to get in 2019 from Porsche or any other manufacturer.
Cars like the CGT are a thing of the past, with all the regulations Porsche couldn't build a street legal one today even if they wanted to.
In a way this 991 Speedster is a toned down descendent of it. A naturally aspirated manual tranny open top with a GT engine. It's a bit of a stretch, you won't get the cup car connection to the road or a Le Mans engine screaming behind you, but it is as close as you're going to get in 2019 from Porsche or any other manufacturer.
New 911 Speedster is more 911R meets 991.1 Carrera GTS Cabriolet, which is to say it's a damn good car and a far more alluring device than the last 911 Speedster (at least to me). But if you're looking for CGT thrills, even toned down ones, it may not be your ride.
Mainly, I hope those who do will drive the things...they are very functional with no real downsides vs a regular 911 in terms of utility. Nose lift is therefore a no-brainer, so it can be used anytime/anywhere/everywhere.
05-28-2019 | 12:19 AM
#68
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,082
Likes: 1,864
From: 29464
^ Fwiw, this is the way I went into the Speedster. Turned out to be the wrong way to head into it…
New 911 Speedster is more 911R meets 991.1 Carrera GTS Cabriolet, which is to say it's a damn good car and a far more alluring device than the last 911 Speedster (at least to me). But if you're looking for CGT thrills, even toned down ones, it may not be your ride.
I wasn't suggesting for a minute that either my, or anyone else's expectations of the Speedster should be analogous to the CGT driving experience, or that it's in any way a modern substitute. The two cars have a few seeds in common, but like I said there will never be another CGT again.
I always come from the perspective that expectations are the building blocks of disappointment, so I look forward to the Speedster experience as a stand alone one.
After the experience has been absorbed I am willing to compare it to other cars I've owned, including the R, but I'll let the that happen ink that order.
Eta: Thank you for doing the review btw, before it I was 50/50 on accepting my allocation but your observations were a notable variable that swayed me to go through with it.
05-28-2019 | 12:25 AM
#69
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,917
Likes: 1,328
From: ^ The Bay Bridge
Hi there.
I wasn't suggesting for a minute that either my, or anyone else's expectations of the Speedster should be analogous to the CGT driving experience, or that it's in any way a modern substitute. The two cars have a few seeds in common, but like I said there will never be another CGT again.
I always come from the perspective that expectations are the building blocks of disappointment, so I look forward to the Speedster experience as a stand alone one.
After the experience has been absorbed I am willing to compare it to other cars I've owned, including the R, but I'll let the that happen ink that order.
I wasn't suggesting for a minute that either my, or anyone else's expectations of the Speedster should be analogous to the CGT driving experience, or that it's in any way a modern substitute. The two cars have a few seeds in common, but like I said there will never be another CGT again.
I always come from the perspective that expectations are the building blocks of disappointment, so I look forward to the Speedster experience as a stand alone one.
After the experience has been absorbed I am willing to compare it to other cars I've owned, including the R, but I'll let the that happen ink that order.
Wasn't taking your words as a suggestion of such at all, actually—but they so closely aligned with how I viewed the Speedster going into my first drive in one that I was struck by them. Also fully agree with you on the bolded above, and will be curious to circle back to your take on the Speedster in time!
05-28-2019 | 01:50 AM
#70
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 60
Likes: 1