2015 GT3 sold on BaT
03-21-2019, 12:32 AM
#61
Rennlist Member
Well I'd tell you again the "miracle" motor in the 2015 with 107K miles but that's probably not what you want to hear so I'll just leave it at that.
It's my first time posting on a "this is why my car is going to be worth more (or way less) then your car down the road", I'm sorry if my analogy was in bad taste.
03-21-2019, 01:59 AM
#62
Drifting
Here’s the bet I’m willing to make (and made it)
I picked up a 15 for $121k ($152k MSRP). When searching for decently spec’d 991.2’s, it was more in the low 170-175 range. Yes, I know some strippers went lower.
For the sake of argument, let’s say there’s a realistic $45-50k gap between .1’s and .2’s currently.
All these cars will fall, but in terms of absolute dollars, the .2 has much more runway to fall before all generations hit their respective resistance points.
In 15 years will a winged PDK .2 be worth more? Yeah of course, but $45-50k more? Not a chance. That’s the bet I made when I made the decision to buy the POS .1 grenade mobile or whatever bitter ADM-paying souls claim it to be.
Plus, there will be a fix for this engine. This is all moot.
You could wait a couple of years and pick up the comparable used 991.2 for say, 131k. Certainly agree that buying that car today (with a 162 MSRP) is going to cost you a lot more to own.
The point was was that it will be interesting to see if the 991.1 and 991.2 have similar relative ‘resistance points’ and if not (I don’t think they will), how much of that will be attributable to the engine issues in the 991.1.
03-21-2019, 06:49 AM
#63
Burning Brakes
Agree but its apples and oranges. You are comparing costs a three/four yr old car (and the corresponding spec for that gen) to a new 2018/2019 car with a newer spec. The new cars base price is about 10k higher. The rest of the difference is age/timing.
You could wait a couple of years and pick up the comparable used 991.2 for say, 131k. Certainly agree that buying that car today (with a 162 MSRP) is going to cost you a lot more to own.
The point was was that it will be interesting to see if the 991.1 and 991.2 have similar relative ‘resistance points’ and if not (I don’t think they will), how much of that will be attributable to the engine issues in the 991.1.
It will be interesting to see what happens come 2024 for a few factors:
1.) The changing automotive landscape away from NA performance cars, maybe entirely. This is going to push the resistance point of all these cars. What’s the old saying? Rising tide raises all ships?
2.) Will we start to see those failures as one-off anomalies as the years go on or will they tick up due to continued use?
3.) Will Dundon wrap up R&D on his fix or will somebody else create one? (It’s difficult to believe something won’t exist given the appetite for it)
Perhaps I get tired of the holier than thou stuff in these .1 threads from some of the folks (you haven’t done this though). It’s a tired agenda.
03-22-2019, 05:56 PM
#64
Its funny how many people are still in denial about the whole GT 991 bubble. 991 owners/speculators based their whole idea of "price growth/value" on tiny limited 996 and 997 based GT cars. While the 991 is a great car Porsche built a ton of them. Last this, last that, blah blah blah. All 991s will keep dropping forever. Even the 991 GT2rs will be a $200K car with some time.
04-24-2019, 11:25 AM
#65
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2015-porsche-911-21/
another one showed up on BaT. Less miles less owners new engine but no buckets and ding'd carfax, wondering if this will be sub 100k.
another one showed up on BaT. Less miles less owners new engine but no buckets and ding'd carfax, wondering if this will be sub 100k.
04-24-2019, 01:12 PM
#67
Advanced
Thread Starter
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2015-porsche-911-21/
another one showed up on BaT. Less miles less owners new engine but no buckets and ding'd carfax, wondering if this will be sub 100k.
another one showed up on BaT. Less miles less owners new engine but no buckets and ding'd carfax, wondering if this will be sub 100k.
04-24-2019, 01:15 PM
#68
Rennlist Member
Assuming they used the latest G series (second revision of the G series), yes. Only the second/latest iteration of G series engine has yet to fail due to excessive cam follower wear to my knowledge. All other E,F, G series revision 1 have failed due to excessive cam follower wear.
04-24-2019, 01:15 PM
#69
Advanced
Thread Starter
OH, Goody, another value thread..... the haters gonna hate (thinking most haters don't own anything in the same zip code in regards to performance or provenance ...."try-hards" talking sh-t), the 3.2 Turbo was the original "grenade" and now look at it...it's a darling....sheesh, find another forum.
Who starts these threads???? Owners worrying about their value? Not likely. More likely, it's folks hoping the sky falls so they can get in the game. There is truth to "If you have to ask, then...." If you're already in the game and you spend your time following the market and fretting over losing money, then I feel sorry for you in that you aren't enjoying the ownership experience.
Ownership Experience = Drive the sh-t out of it.
Who starts these threads???? Owners worrying about their value? Not likely. More likely, it's folks hoping the sky falls so they can get in the game. There is truth to "If you have to ask, then...." If you're already in the game and you spend your time following the market and fretting over losing money, then I feel sorry for you in that you aren't enjoying the ownership experience.
Ownership Experience = Drive the sh-t out of it.
04-24-2019, 02:55 PM
#70
6th Gear
Assuming they used the latest G series (second revision of the G series), yes. Only the second/latest iteration of G series engine has yet to fail due to excessive cam follower wear to my knowledge. All other E,F, G series revision 1 have failed due to excessive cam follower wear.
04-25-2019, 09:05 AM
#71
Rennlist Member
Its definitely worth discussing. Just ignore the people who tell you to stop worrying about price, drive it, blah blah. Its your money, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to get the best possible deal on what is ultimately an unnecessary luxury item.
04-25-2019, 09:37 AM
#72
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Airbag997
Assuming they used the latest G series (second revision of the G series), yes. Only the second/latest iteration of G series engine has yet to fail due to excessive cam follower wear to my knowledge. All other E,F, G series revision 1 have failed due to excessive cam follower wear.
The fix is in the 991.2 motor with a solid upper drivetrain
Talk to an engine builder, don't believe what you read
Under warranty the 991.1 is great, a rebuild under out of warranty is very expensive, it will always hurt ownership resale of 991.1 as most who own them can't afford the unknown of replacing an engine once warranty runs out
I've paid to have many porsche racing engines rebuilt, parts are not cheap on a 9k rpm motor
04-25-2019, 09:54 AM
#73
Rennlist Member
It's not a fix, it's a better band aid.
The fix is in the 991.2 motor with a solid upper drivetrain
Talk to an engine builder, don't believe what you read
Under warranty the 991.1 is great, a rebuild under out of warranty is very expensive, it will always hurt ownership resale of 991.1 as most who own them can't afford the unknown of replacing an engine once warranty runs out
I've paid to have many porsche racing engines rebuilt, parts are not cheap on a 9k rpm motor
The fix is in the 991.2 motor with a solid upper drivetrain
Talk to an engine builder, don't believe what you read
Under warranty the 991.1 is great, a rebuild under out of warranty is very expensive, it will always hurt ownership resale of 991.1 as most who own them can't afford the unknown of replacing an engine once warranty runs out
I've paid to have many porsche racing engines rebuilt, parts are not cheap on a 9k rpm motor
Is the design perfect, no. Is the 991.2 solid lifter design better, yes. However, the cam follower premature wear/failure is attributed to many factors, primarily, the "inclusions" that were due to a manufacturing defect. This was further exacerbated by sub par oiling, and lack of DLC coating. I also believe that North American Mobil 1 "European Formula" exacerbated the wear due to Mobil 1 being a relatively poor oil at high temp high load. Take a look at ASTM benchmark testing with Mobil 1 "European formula", it's very poor. Europe gets much better Mobil 1, as they use better/different base stocks. I believe this is also why it wasn't discovered during development, as it was masked by the Germans superior Mobil 1.
Far more 991.1 GT3's with no issues vs. issues. If you have any data on a second gen G series motor failing due to excessive cam-follower wear, would love to see it.
04-25-2019, 10:33 AM
#74
Instructor
It's not a fix, it's a better band aid.
The fix is in the 991.2 motor with a solid upper drivetrain
Talk to an engine builder, don't believe what you read
Under warranty the 991.1 is great, a rebuild under out of warranty is very expensive, it will always hurt ownership resale of 991.1 as most who own them can't afford the unknown of replacing an engine once warranty runs out
I've paid to have many porsche racing engines rebuilt, parts are not cheap on a 9k rpm motor
The fix is in the 991.2 motor with a solid upper drivetrain
Talk to an engine builder, don't believe what you read
Under warranty the 991.1 is great, a rebuild under out of warranty is very expensive, it will always hurt ownership resale of 991.1 as most who own them can't afford the unknown of replacing an engine once warranty runs out
I've paid to have many porsche racing engines rebuilt, parts are not cheap on a 9k rpm motor
