OT: Any GT3 owners' experience with 458?
#61
I currently have a 458 Speciale and a 991.1 GT3.
I would say the standard 458 is a mroe exotic experience than driving the GT3. However, I would say they are both very engaging cars to drive. The 458 is looser, more dramatic, and more playful.
Reliability wise, the 458 generation is actually very strong. I rarely hear complaints on the forums. The big risk item is the transmission on the earlier cars, but that is extremely rare (don't equate it to the 991.1 GT3 finger follower issue...it's far less frequent than that). You can get a New Power warranty which will cover this problem. If you really want a warranty, then buying the car from a franchised Ferrari dealer is advantageous since they often throw in the warranty into the deal at a heavy discount.
I would say the biggest reliability problem that you will likely face with Ferrari are battery problems. If you don't have a place to put it on a tender, you better be driving that car regularly, or risk many a flat battery.
Anecdotally, my 458 Speciale has been the most reliable car I've ever owned outside of the Toyota and Lexus cars.
One thing to keep in mind though, be prepared to get alot more attention driving the Ferrari. Usually only car enthusiasts will be attracted to a GT3, but a 458 is going to get every random guy walking up to you at a gas station, or trying to converse with you if your windows/top are down at a red light.
Best of luck!
I would say the standard 458 is a mroe exotic experience than driving the GT3. However, I would say they are both very engaging cars to drive. The 458 is looser, more dramatic, and more playful.
Reliability wise, the 458 generation is actually very strong. I rarely hear complaints on the forums. The big risk item is the transmission on the earlier cars, but that is extremely rare (don't equate it to the 991.1 GT3 finger follower issue...it's far less frequent than that). You can get a New Power warranty which will cover this problem. If you really want a warranty, then buying the car from a franchised Ferrari dealer is advantageous since they often throw in the warranty into the deal at a heavy discount.
I would say the biggest reliability problem that you will likely face with Ferrari are battery problems. If you don't have a place to put it on a tender, you better be driving that car regularly, or risk many a flat battery.
Anecdotally, my 458 Speciale has been the most reliable car I've ever owned outside of the Toyota and Lexus cars.
One thing to keep in mind though, be prepared to get alot more attention driving the Ferrari. Usually only car enthusiasts will be attracted to a GT3, but a 458 is going to get every random guy walking up to you at a gas station, or trying to converse with you if your windows/top are down at a red light.
Best of luck!
#62
I currently have a 458 Speciale and a 991.1 GT3.
...snip!....
I would say the biggest reliability problem that you will likely face with Ferrari are battery problems. If you don't have a place to put it on a tender, you better be driving that car regularly, or risk many a flat battery.
...snip!....
I would say the biggest reliability problem that you will likely face with Ferrari are battery problems. If you don't have a place to put it on a tender, you better be driving that car regularly, or risk many a flat battery.
Two electrical nuances about Ferrari:
1) Once you fire up the engine ALWAYS allow your Ferrari to complete all startup procedures before driving off. It can throw nuisance codes
2) Always keep your car on a battery maintainer
Get this - Ferrari battery maintainers are actually Ferrari stickers slapped on two (2) generation old CTEKs with
(,,,wait for it...) A PROPRIETARY FERRARI ONLY PLUG. CTEK will not even sell this old model to the public, but they will dump them on Ferrari owners, and I'm here to say that you deserve better.
Forget the fact it is old technology at a high price $300+ this sucker it is only pumping out 0.8amps DC into the battery with no conditioning cycles. (No Bueno for $300+)
I setup a production run of dongles that span the Ferrari proprietary plug to a standard CTEK connection and you can use a far better, modern CTEK battery maintainer with 8 stages of battery conditioning including desulphation and maintenance cycles. When new ones come to market, you are instantly upgradeable
Let me know if you have any difficulty in this area, glad to help.
#63
I have sort of gone the opposite direction. I had a 996 Turbo X50 coupe and a 997.1 Turbo coupe (both 6-speed manual) before getting seduced by Ferrari. The original plan was ordering a 488 GTB. While waiting for the 488 (it took about 8 months), I bought a 458 Italia (2 months, drove 3k miles) then a new F12 (6 months, almost 8k miles). I don’t have a 991.2 GT3 yet so I don’t have direct experience. I can share some of my experiences and thinking. I have a 991.2 GT3 touring and a 991.2 GT3 RS coming. I’ve been driving a 718 Cayman S 6-speed manual for 6 months and will have a 991.2 C2 GTS coupe 7-speed manual (probably 6 months before the GT3s show up) while I wait for the GT3s.
I can confirm that the 458 AC is worth trying and the F12 is something else (I have a soft spot for Ferrari V12s). Of course, the V12 (non-LE) depreciation was painful, but the sound alone made it all worth it to me. I can also confirmed the Ferrari games are at another level. It’s something to consider if you get addicted to Ferrari.
I drove my 458 Italia daily while I had it. The only issue I had was a license plate light. The bumpy road suspension setting makes it something I don’t find harsh. The V8 scream is intense and amazing! The car is tune to be very dramatic though. I prefer to keep rpm high so I drive in manual mode. The throttle is so sensitive that it almost can react to your thought (of course, exaggerated). But it makes driving smooth a bit tough (auto mode shifts into 4th gear or higher quickly and smooth driving is no problem). The sound and the engine are worth experiencing for sure. I don’t expect my incoming GT3s (touring or RS) to have that level of intensity or drama (I don’t know if anyone does it as good as Ferrari). If you are looking for emotional intensity and don’t mind the attention it draws, it’s hard to beat going the Ferrari route. If possible, owning a Ferrari is definitely worth it for life-long car enthusiasts. It was a very expensive exercise for me but I don’t regret it at all. I just found Porsches to align with what I’m looking for more (have manual, a bit more understated).
I hope this is helpful.
I can confirm that the 458 AC is worth trying and the F12 is something else (I have a soft spot for Ferrari V12s). Of course, the V12 (non-LE) depreciation was painful, but the sound alone made it all worth it to me. I can also confirmed the Ferrari games are at another level. It’s something to consider if you get addicted to Ferrari.
I drove my 458 Italia daily while I had it. The only issue I had was a license plate light. The bumpy road suspension setting makes it something I don’t find harsh. The V8 scream is intense and amazing! The car is tune to be very dramatic though. I prefer to keep rpm high so I drive in manual mode. The throttle is so sensitive that it almost can react to your thought (of course, exaggerated). But it makes driving smooth a bit tough (auto mode shifts into 4th gear or higher quickly and smooth driving is no problem). The sound and the engine are worth experiencing for sure. I don’t expect my incoming GT3s (touring or RS) to have that level of intensity or drama (I don’t know if anyone does it as good as Ferrari). If you are looking for emotional intensity and don’t mind the attention it draws, it’s hard to beat going the Ferrari route. If possible, owning a Ferrari is definitely worth it for life-long car enthusiasts. It was a very expensive exercise for me but I don’t regret it at all. I just found Porsches to align with what I’m looking for more (have manual, a bit more understated).
I hope this is helpful.
#64
Like some of the posters above, I have both a 458 Speciale and some recent Porsche GT cars. Long time owner of both brands.
The last few cars, I have actually had less issues with the F car than the Porsches. In fact, the 458 Speciale has had zero issues - amazing actually - the Porsches have all had 1 or 2 minor problems. The Ferrari, however, does feel somehow more "fragile". Nevertheless, each drive is an occasion in the Speciale.
Ferrari 12s are are an experience, just make sure your entry point is right.
The last few cars, I have actually had less issues with the F car than the Porsches. In fact, the 458 Speciale has had zero issues - amazing actually - the Porsches have all had 1 or 2 minor problems. The Ferrari, however, does feel somehow more "fragile". Nevertheless, each drive is an occasion in the Speciale.
Ferrari 12s are are an experience, just make sure your entry point is right.
#65
Almost, but I know what you mean.
The Ferrari factory cars since 2013 all come with a 7 year free maintenance package.
Warranty is only 3 years
So, everytime from year 4 on, when you go in for free maintenance if they find anything, then it is on you
The Ferrari factory cars since 2013 all come with a 7 year free maintenance package.
Warranty is only 3 years
So, everytime from year 4 on, when you go in for free maintenance if they find anything, then it is on you
#68
I'm in the UK and also have a 991.2GT3 PDK and seriously considering changing it for a Ferrari..I was initially only looking at 488s until i realised i would miss the NASP 9k screamer.I'm now just looking at 458 and a 430 Scud.Both are currently fair value in the Ferrari world although the Scud is about £50K more than the 458.
If i go for a 458 i would never consider the Spider for the very compromised driving dynamics, due to the lack of torsional rigidity.I sat in a white Scud last week and if you want a special,rare and incredible sounding car for weekend canyon driving its the one to get IMO.Its so purposefully focussed with its exposed carbon fibre interior with racing buckets and exposed aluminium floor its a road going Race car.Its too raw to use on a regular basis however where a 458 coupe is more suitable.
If i go for a 458 i would never consider the Spider for the very compromised driving dynamics, due to the lack of torsional rigidity.I sat in a white Scud last week and if you want a special,rare and incredible sounding car for weekend canyon driving its the one to get IMO.Its so purposefully focussed with its exposed carbon fibre interior with racing buckets and exposed aluminium floor its a road going Race car.Its too raw to use on a regular basis however where a 458 coupe is more suitable.
#69
Driving wise- the steering is super light and the brakes and pedal inputs are wildly different than the GT3. Not better or worse across the board but very different across the board. In my personal opinion the 458 ride quality was very skateboardy and feels fragile/ flimsy.
#70
Sam, you can't go wrong with a 458, but I wouldn't be kissing off Porsche either. On this forum a lot of negatives get brought to the surface. Not that that is bad, but it can distort your feelings about the brand. I personally focus on the products, and ignore the dealer and ADM side of things. All great highly desirable products come with games. Porsche makes great products, and they are an excellent value. So personally I would not make any decision about a brand based on anything negative you read here, or about dealer issues, ADM, which dealer screwed who, etc. I would, however, encourage you to look at Ferrari, McLaren and Lamborghini on the basis that they make very cool cars. Go drive them all, and then decide which one floats your boat. Variety is great, so maybe sell the GT3 and try something else for a while. I have thought about selling the GT3 at some point, and going 458 as well. NA baby! I think the experience itself would be rewarding, and if I did come back to Porsche after that, I would have a greater appreciation for the brand. McLaren makes cool cars too. So you can look at this as the point in your life where you are trying out different brands to see where your sweet spot is. Fun times!
But I would just not make any decision based on anything negative you have read here, which is voluminous. Great cars are hard to get. That is just the way it is.
Good luck! Let us know what you test drive. Pictures!
But I would just not make any decision based on anything negative you have read here, which is voluminous. Great cars are hard to get. That is just the way it is.
Good luck! Let us know what you test drive. Pictures!
#71
I currently have a 458 Speciale and a 991.1 GT3.
I would say the standard 458 is a mroe exotic experience than driving the GT3. However, I would say they are both very engaging cars to drive. The 458 is looser, more dramatic, and more playful.
Reliability wise, the 458 generation is actually very strong. I rarely hear complaints on the forums. The big risk item is the transmission on the earlier cars, but that is extremely rare (don't equate it to the 991.1 GT3 finger follower issue...it's far less frequent than that). You can get a New Power warranty which will cover this problem. If you really want a warranty, then buying the car from a franchised Ferrari dealer is advantageous since they often throw in the warranty into the deal at a heavy discount.
I would say the biggest reliability problem that you will likely face with Ferrari are battery problems. If you don't have a place to put it on a tender, you better be driving that car regularly, or risk many a flat battery.
Anecdotally, my 458 Speciale has been the most reliable car I've ever owned outside of the Toyota and Lexus cars.
One thing to keep in mind though, be prepared to get alot more attention driving the Ferrari. Usually only car enthusiasts will be attracted to a GT3, but a 458 is going to get every random guy walking up to you at a gas station, or trying to converse with you if your windows/top are down at a red light.
Best of luck!
I would say the standard 458 is a mroe exotic experience than driving the GT3. However, I would say they are both very engaging cars to drive. The 458 is looser, more dramatic, and more playful.
Reliability wise, the 458 generation is actually very strong. I rarely hear complaints on the forums. The big risk item is the transmission on the earlier cars, but that is extremely rare (don't equate it to the 991.1 GT3 finger follower issue...it's far less frequent than that). You can get a New Power warranty which will cover this problem. If you really want a warranty, then buying the car from a franchised Ferrari dealer is advantageous since they often throw in the warranty into the deal at a heavy discount.
I would say the biggest reliability problem that you will likely face with Ferrari are battery problems. If you don't have a place to put it on a tender, you better be driving that car regularly, or risk many a flat battery.
Anecdotally, my 458 Speciale has been the most reliable car I've ever owned outside of the Toyota and Lexus cars.
One thing to keep in mind though, be prepared to get alot more attention driving the Ferrari. Usually only car enthusiasts will be attracted to a GT3, but a 458 is going to get every random guy walking up to you at a gas station, or trying to converse with you if your windows/top are down at a red light.
Best of luck!
+1, this man Bob speaks with the voice of experience
Two electrical nuances about Ferrari:
1) Once you fire up the engine ALWAYS allow your Ferrari to complete all startup procedures before driving off. It can throw nuisance codes
2) Always keep your car on a battery maintainer
Get this - Ferrari battery maintainers are actually Ferrari stickers slapped on two (2) generation old CTEKs with
(,,,wait for it...) A PROPRIETARY FERRARI ONLY PLUG. CTEK will not even sell this old model to the public, but they will dump them on Ferrari owners, and I'm here to say that you deserve better.
Forget the fact it is old technology at a high price $300+ this sucker it is only pumping out 0.8amps DC into the battery with no conditioning cycles. (No Bueno for $300+)
I setup a production run of dongles that span the Ferrari proprietary plug to a standard CTEK connection and you can use a far better, modern CTEK battery maintainer with 8 stages of battery conditioning including desulphation and maintenance cycles. When new ones come to market, you are instantly upgradeable
Let me know if you have any difficulty in this area, glad to help.
Two electrical nuances about Ferrari:
1) Once you fire up the engine ALWAYS allow your Ferrari to complete all startup procedures before driving off. It can throw nuisance codes
2) Always keep your car on a battery maintainer
Get this - Ferrari battery maintainers are actually Ferrari stickers slapped on two (2) generation old CTEKs with
(,,,wait for it...) A PROPRIETARY FERRARI ONLY PLUG. CTEK will not even sell this old model to the public, but they will dump them on Ferrari owners, and I'm here to say that you deserve better.
Forget the fact it is old technology at a high price $300+ this sucker it is only pumping out 0.8amps DC into the battery with no conditioning cycles. (No Bueno for $300+)
I setup a production run of dongles that span the Ferrari proprietary plug to a standard CTEK connection and you can use a far better, modern CTEK battery maintainer with 8 stages of battery conditioning including desulphation and maintenance cycles. When new ones come to market, you are instantly upgradeable
Let me know if you have any difficulty in this area, glad to help.
I have sort of gone the opposite direction. I had a 996 Turbo X50 coupe and a 997.1 Turbo coupe (both 6-speed manual) before getting seduced by Ferrari. The original plan was ordering a 488 GTB. While waiting for the 488 (it took about 8 months), I bought a 458 Italia (2 months, drove 3k miles) then a new F12 (6 months, almost 8k miles). I don’t have a 991.2 GT3 yet so I don’t have direct experience. I can share some of my experiences and thinking. I have a 991.2 GT3 touring and a 991.2 GT3 RS coming. I’ve been driving a 718 Cayman S 6-speed manual for 6 months and will have a 991.2 C2 GTS coupe 7-speed manual (probably 6 months before the GT3s show up) while I wait for the GT3s.
I can confirm that the 458 AC is worth trying and the F12 is something else (I have a soft spot for Ferrari V12s). Of course, the V12 (non-LE) depreciation was painful, but the sound alone made it all worth it to me. I can also confirmed the Ferrari games are at another level. It’s something to consider if you get addicted to Ferrari.
I drove my 458 Italia daily while I had it. The only issue I had was a license plate light. The bumpy road suspension setting makes it something I don’t find harsh. The V8 scream is intense and amazing! The car is tune to be very dramatic though. I prefer to keep rpm high so I drive in manual mode. The throttle is so sensitive that it almost can react to your thought (of course, exaggerated). But it makes driving smooth a bit tough (auto mode shifts into 4th gear or higher quickly and smooth driving is no problem). The sound and the engine are worth experiencing for sure. I don’t expect my incoming GT3s (touring or RS) to have that level of intensity or drama (I don’t know if anyone does it as good as Ferrari). If you are looking for emotional intensity and don’t mind the attention it draws, it’s hard to beat going the Ferrari route. If possible, owning a Ferrari is definitely worth it for life-long car enthusiasts. It was a very expensive exercise for me but I don’t regret it at all. I just found Porsches to align with what I’m looking for more (have manual, a bit more understated).
I hope this is helpful.
I can confirm that the 458 AC is worth trying and the F12 is something else (I have a soft spot for Ferrari V12s). Of course, the V12 (non-LE) depreciation was painful, but the sound alone made it all worth it to me. I can also confirmed the Ferrari games are at another level. It’s something to consider if you get addicted to Ferrari.
I drove my 458 Italia daily while I had it. The only issue I had was a license plate light. The bumpy road suspension setting makes it something I don’t find harsh. The V8 scream is intense and amazing! The car is tune to be very dramatic though. I prefer to keep rpm high so I drive in manual mode. The throttle is so sensitive that it almost can react to your thought (of course, exaggerated). But it makes driving smooth a bit tough (auto mode shifts into 4th gear or higher quickly and smooth driving is no problem). The sound and the engine are worth experiencing for sure. I don’t expect my incoming GT3s (touring or RS) to have that level of intensity or drama (I don’t know if anyone does it as good as Ferrari). If you are looking for emotional intensity and don’t mind the attention it draws, it’s hard to beat going the Ferrari route. If possible, owning a Ferrari is definitely worth it for life-long car enthusiasts. It was a very expensive exercise for me but I don’t regret it at all. I just found Porsches to align with what I’m looking for more (have manual, a bit more understated).
I hope this is helpful.
This is spot on. I am surprised so many people prefer the 458. The front-end is too darty and light. Feels like you're in a permanent wheelie. As good as the engine sounds, I found it to be undramatic on the way to redline. Sounds good, but sounds muted. Doesn't get progressively angrier on the way up to redline, it's a very flat ride to 9k vs GT3. Interior quality, at least from materials perspective, is inferior to materials and fit and finish in a Porsche. Controls feel flimsy, and the LCD screen has the resolution of my iPhone 3.
Sam, you can't go wrong with a 458, but I wouldn't be kissing off Porsche either. On this forum a lot of negatives get brought to the surface. Not that that is bad, but it can distort your feelings about the brand. I personally focus on the products, and ignore the dealer and ADM side of things. All great highly desirable products come with games. Porsche makes great products, and they are an excellent value. So personally I would not make any decision about a brand based on anything negative you read here, or about dealer issues, ADM, which dealer screwed who, etc. I would, however, encourage you to look at Ferrari, McLaren and Lamborghini on the basis that they make very cool cars. Go drive them all, and then decide which one floats your boat. Variety is great, so maybe sell the GT3 and try something else for a while. I have thought about selling the GT3 at some point, and going 458 as well. NA baby! I think the experience itself would be rewarding, and if I did come back to Porsche after that, I would have a greater appreciation for the brand. McLaren makes cool cars too. So you can look at this as the point in your life where you are trying out different brands to see where your sweet spot is. Fun times!
But I would just not make any decision based on anything negative you have read here, which is voluminous. Great cars are hard to get. That is just the way it is.
Good luck! Let us know what you test drive. Pictures!
But I would just not make any decision based on anything negative you have read here, which is voluminous. Great cars are hard to get. That is just the way it is.
Good luck! Let us know what you test drive. Pictures!
#73
+1, this man Bob speaks with the voice of experience
Two electrical nuances about Ferrari:
1) Once you fire up the engine ALWAYS allow your Ferrari to complete all startup procedures before driving off. It can throw nuisance codes
2) Always keep your car on a battery maintainer
Get this - Ferrari battery maintainers are actually Ferrari stickers slapped on two (2) generation old CTEKs with
(,,,wait for it...) A PROPRIETARY FERRARI ONLY PLUG. CTEK will not even sell this old model to the public, but they will dump them on Ferrari owners, and I'm here to say that you deserve better.
Forget the fact it is old technology at a high price $300+ this sucker it is only pumping out 0.8amps DC into the battery with no conditioning cycles. (No Bueno for $300+)
I setup a production run of dongles that span the Ferrari proprietary plug to a standard CTEK connection and you can use a far better, modern CTEK battery maintainer with 8 stages of battery conditioning including desulphation and maintenance cycles. When new ones come to market, you are instantly upgradeable
Let me know if you have any difficulty in this area, glad to help.
Two electrical nuances about Ferrari:
1) Once you fire up the engine ALWAYS allow your Ferrari to complete all startup procedures before driving off. It can throw nuisance codes
2) Always keep your car on a battery maintainer
Get this - Ferrari battery maintainers are actually Ferrari stickers slapped on two (2) generation old CTEKs with
(,,,wait for it...) A PROPRIETARY FERRARI ONLY PLUG. CTEK will not even sell this old model to the public, but they will dump them on Ferrari owners, and I'm here to say that you deserve better.
Forget the fact it is old technology at a high price $300+ this sucker it is only pumping out 0.8amps DC into the battery with no conditioning cycles. (No Bueno for $300+)
I setup a production run of dongles that span the Ferrari proprietary plug to a standard CTEK connection and you can use a far better, modern CTEK battery maintainer with 8 stages of battery conditioning including desulphation and maintenance cycles. When new ones come to market, you are instantly upgradeable
Let me know if you have any difficulty in this area, glad to help.
#74
I recently got a .1 GT3 as my first gt car so i can chime in a bit. You cant go wrong with either car that's for sure. However what you love/ feel about these cars are quite different. To me the GT car feels very well engineered and connected to you, and u love it as a fantastic machine. The engine sounds amazing in higher revs, and it looks great with that classic and iconic 911 proportion with a big wing. Everything about it appeals to your analytical side of the brain. The 458 on the other hand, is more like an art piece with some fantastic engineering behind it, but not close to the level of porsche; the parts are fragile and dont last as long, there r electrical gremlins, the interior buttons deteriorates, the engine cam cover fades in color etc. The car is just beautiful and appeals to your senses, the interior is all smell of leather and has all these curves that serves no purpose but just for your viewing pleasure, the exterior has lots of curvy lines and humps but at the same time are still minimalist and not busy (unlike the latest post-pinifarina designs which i thought are starting to get a bit too busy), the engine sounds good throughout the entire range..basically it appeals to the emotional side of the brain. But like all forms of art, art is subjective, and so how much one can appreciate from the design differs while every driver can appreciate a very well engineered GT car.
With that said the 458 is probably the most reliable ferrari to date so if u reserve 30-40k of cash reserve for a sudden DCT failure, you should be able to sleep well at night. Most of the issues are small and although costly, not frequent. Annual service runs about 1-2k and biannual runs about 2k. All of them have no warranty by now, unless it's certified for a year at dealer or it's a 16 specialie. Free service is nice to have but there's no warranty to help with bigger repairs. The dct failure is probably the worse case scenario. The same risk lies with the GT cars, not likely, but not impossible.
If you are more into the driving experience and attention, the spider is better simply because you have better access to the sound and people see u more in the spider. If you value better handling and actually push the car more, the italia is better. I like the italia design better with the engine view and thought it has cleaner lines, but often times i lust after that topless engine sound i had in my f430 spider. Being in sunny socal, the spider is generally more preferred.
With that said the 458 is probably the most reliable ferrari to date so if u reserve 30-40k of cash reserve for a sudden DCT failure, you should be able to sleep well at night. Most of the issues are small and although costly, not frequent. Annual service runs about 1-2k and biannual runs about 2k. All of them have no warranty by now, unless it's certified for a year at dealer or it's a 16 specialie. Free service is nice to have but there's no warranty to help with bigger repairs. The dct failure is probably the worse case scenario. The same risk lies with the GT cars, not likely, but not impossible.
If you are more into the driving experience and attention, the spider is better simply because you have better access to the sound and people see u more in the spider. If you value better handling and actually push the car more, the italia is better. I like the italia design better with the engine view and thought it has cleaner lines, but often times i lust after that topless engine sound i had in my f430 spider. Being in sunny socal, the spider is generally more preferred.