How is the TT or TTS better?, faster where, not in the real world of the daily driving speed range and traffic - faster on paper, also you can get a C4/S/GTS and customise it to your hearts content. Looks to me the TT and TTS are cars without a purpose since the whole line up is turbocharged (all models now deliver plenty of power and torque) - sure the 991 is a nice car, sure you can throw the kids in the back but you still have to live with weight and AWD. Would I drive long distances in a GT3T - no. Can you do it, yes. So, they just fill market niches that Porsche are catering to.

Having had a good look recently, the base/T is a very compelling package - if I wanted a Porsche largely for track use and wanted to cut times the GT3 with PDK makes sense, and a manual touring doesn't. If I wanted a daily and yet fun sports car, a nicely specced base works or even C4 if weather or roads present more of a challenge. It still looks like the GTS is the great all rounder - thats probably what Porsche intended and is consistent with the badging.

The OPs question is pretty simple - my answer is there are, what appear to me, better choices e.g. I wouldn't buy either (I'm not saying they're not good cars - they simply don't do it for me) (PS I'm looking for a new car and own several P - sports cars - and may go towards a 996/997 GT3 for pure track use).

 

You obviously have no experience in a TT or TTS and you have no idea how capable they are on the track or for daily driving. GTS is a great car but not in the league of the TTS. You can buy a GTS and load it up with all kinds of crap and all your trying to do is make it as capable as a TTS.
I've driven or owned all of the cars mentioned and I've owned 4 TT's and now a TTS too.
Drive one, you might feel the same or you might not. The 991 TTS is truly a Supercar.

 

I'm not trying to pick a fight but I have driven the 996 and 997 versions and they really didn't do it for me.

Round a track, I have seen many outcomes and know only three things - the outcome is largely down to the quality and experience of the driver, the tires and the ability to carry corner speed. For example I recently watched an AMG GTR get nailed by everything from 987 Caymans through to GT3s, why because the driver lacked the confidence to drive effectively to the conditions. Put the same person in a TTS or 675LT and the outcome would have been the same.

In the hands of good drivers the current batch of Porsche sports cars are formidable and therein is the conundrum and hence my comments.

 

I don't come here to fight either. I really come here to learn and participate. Drive a 991 TTS, the 996 & 997 TT's were great cars the 991 is in a different league.
The good news is all of the cars being discussed are great cars so you can't make a bad choice.

 

Thats my feeling as well

 

 

 

From everything I've read it seems to be a huge improvement. Better suspension, more fun, etc. Performance wise they're both epic, of course. The 991.2 TTS is much, much harder to find. The 991.1 TTS got a reputation for huge depreciation and huge discounts because they made too many and they were collecting dust on dealer lots. The 991.2 TTS was much more limited. I tried to get a 991.2 TTS and couldn't get an allocation for half a year, so I gave up and got a GTS instead (I wasn't interested in the 991.1 TTS, so that wasn't an option.)

 

 

No, GT3T will be the rarest. Not many people seem to be choosing the touring package. I didn't choose it on my GT3, I want the wing and PDK.

 

I'm not sure about the production numbers of the 991.1 TTS vs. the 991.2 TTS, but I know that Porsche produced a relatively large number of 991.1 TTS cars compared to previous generation TTS cars. I haven't had the opportunity to drive a 991.2 TTS, but I've heard great things about it. I think that Porsche generally does a great job with making nice improvements in mid-cycle updates. The 997.2 TT update was great improvement to the 997.1 TT, for perspective.

Some of the 991.2 TTS updates that most people seem to like were mentioned above: suspension updates, more HP due to larger turbos (991.1 TTS cars share turbos with 991.1 TT cars; increased HP comes from software), active reduction of turbo lag, updated multi-function sport steering wheel, updated electronics with Apple CarPlay, and a few more. There were some cosmetic updates too; the LED lights, the rear bumper design, door handles, and a few more.

To me, the GT3 in any variant will always be a rare and unique car. It will be interesting to see how the sales break down between GT3, GT3T, and GT3 RS. I've driven a 991.1 GT3 on the racetrack, and it was simply fantastic. That said, I don't think it would be as good as a daily driver/street driver as a TTS. It's just a little too hardcore for the street. I suspect that the GT3T will be the same way, but I can't say without driving one. I think the TTS and the GT3T are very different cars, and if you're really considering both, then you should really try to drive both.

 

996 Turbo was such a ground-breaking car, and beyond effective point to point, that it was very fun it its way. Didn't make great noises, however, and had a torque curve engineers love (and good for a giggle) but one that became boring to me once I drove a 996 GT3. 997 Turbo had a very similar torque curve—ultra useful and an engineer's dream—but the first gen car's PASM was a hot mess (somewhat bizarrely fixed with aftermarket springs alone) and was better looking, but still no object of desire for me. 997.2 Turbo was an upgrade in terms of handling, and brought PDK, but still not a fave for me personally. So...I kind of agree with you—though I have driven lightly and heavily modified 997 Turbos I would rank right up there with the top 15-20 Porsches I have ever driven. Just wonderful...and fun.

Yes, for sure. Had a Chiron wave me by at Thunderhill last year...but I knew what he was up to: He wanted to destroy me on the front straight, so I got through the last turn as quick as I could, and will never forget all those beady-eyed headlights closing in on my GT4's rear wing. Had he been more of a driver—and he was super humble about that, and SUCH a nice guy—he absolutely would have. But he didn't get it done on the way to T1, and then the GT4 just walked away. And that was 1,479 hp and 1,180 lb-ft of torque in a chassis that could deploy it no matter who is driving (more or less) vs a puny 385 hp and 309 lb-ft. We could get into weight differences, but they just don't matter in this case.

Precisely. They're all fast cars. Watched Hurley Haywood fend off a group of pretty quick journalists in 991.2 Turbos at Thunderhill in a 991.2 Carrera 4S coupe with a few sporting options, and he didn't have too much trouble—although I think the other instructors liked making Hurley be the only instructor without at least equal machinery to the journalists. Gotta keep the veteran hungry...

Yes, and...amen.


Both, sort of. Both generations are wildly capable and seriously fast cars. Both are also excellent cars. Wouldn't say the 991.2 opens up huge gaps in certain measures, but it's a bit like other .2s in that it opens up a lot of pleasure/satisfaction in the tuning of everything. So, a lot of nuanced changes that add up to a "big" change in my opinion. I admired the 991.1 Turbo but didn't want one. The 991.2 Turbo became an object of desire for me after 2500 miles on road and track, over the current GT3 RS, and this right after driving a 991.1 RS down to LA on great roads (plus a track day in Germany the year before). I didn't expect that and, in a vacuum (poor choice of words? ), generally prefer NA engines to turbocharged engines. And the Turbo, unlike the current Carrera, has the kind of power band that, while nice, isn't really my thing. But the sum of the Turbo was > the sum of the GT3 RS for me—as a road car. Track day toy? GT3 RS every time. Backroad stormer, very occasional track day, and every day driver? 991.2 Turbo every time. With a roughly similar outer envelope to the RS, which felt big and hard to access on small and even larger driver's roads, the Turbo was the car that felt tidier, more placeable, and more accessible. And thus, in a way, more fun. The GT3 RS, on similar roads, made me feel like I was missing out on what it had to give...where the Turbo said, "Here, enjoy." That's chassis stuff, made accessible by the engine characteristics. And that's chassis stuff, made sharper and more fun by the revolution going on in calibration thanks in no small part to the 918. All of the systems in Porsche's most recent sports cars—PASM, RAS, PSM, PTV, PDK, etc—have benefitted from the monster problems people at PAG had to work through to make the 918 work. Which is also what makes the GT2 RS work with all that power and RWD only. I'm now very curious to try the new GT3 RS.

But...I like a manual gearbox in my daily, so that takes both the Turbo and the GT3 RS off the table, for me. And I am hardly crying into my beer. It's a good time to be alive and a car nut...

 

Turbo S is the best all-in-1 package in the 911 lineup - a good student with A in every category.
GT3 is a focused machine - scores A++ in math and B- in others.
If you know what you want, it is hard to cross shop the 2.

Drive one and make the statement. I don't understand where this 'cars without a purpose' comes from. I took extensive test drive on both S, GTS and TTS. No Carrera (S/GTS) can come even close to TTS under full throttle. TTS has this unique mad acceleration that no other 911 can match, except the GT2RS. You can actually feel the difference anytime you accelerate. Interesting though, with the extra power, weight and AWD is something you can hardly feel on the street.

Again, drive one and make the statement. 991.2 GT3 has improved so much. I can say it is not much less comfortable then the 991.1 GTS with SPASM. I don't need to mention the engine and tranny difference between the GT3 and GTS.
If you think GTS is doing everything well, GT3T takes it to another world. The only sacrifice is two backseats. Don't look at the stats sheet and say they are close. They are not.

 

Can't say I've seen a lot of 991.1 TTS's collecting dust on dealers lots. Any good example with proper mileage get scooped up fairly quickly.