991R vs 991.2 GT3 Touring
07-14-2018, 01:41 PM
#391
Relax. I'm not saying I'm even interested, but I do think you're overstating the challenge. Chris Harris didn't have any trouble drifting the GT3 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTvEw-Mbzv4
Just a little surprised over the defensiveness.
Just a little surprised over the defensiveness.
07-14-2018, 02:03 PM
#392
I agree with Footsoldier. Most of the 911R owners posting on this forum are very, very knowledgeable and experienced drivers. They own many cars and have driven many cars. In the end I don't think any of them care all that much about a numbered car or marketing BS. I'm not even sure how much they care about future values. I don't. The GT3, winged or not, is fantastic. To me, the winged car felt similar to my 997.2 GT3RS. The R feels different.
To me, the R has a certain spryness, if that's even a word, reminiscent of a 964 RS in a contemporary car. I imagine that if we all were together and took one car v. another around the same course on the same day we would all pretty much agree about the "feel" even though one of us might prefer one car over another. My German friends call this "po-po meter."
Footsoldier, unotaz and others are just trying to give readers on this forum a qualified understanding, as best they can, about the dynamics of the car. We all can search the internet for road tests, weight, part numbers, lap times etc. but there is that intangible something that can only come from experience.
This entire debate (and anger) began because of exclusivity and money. But that day is gone. In the U.S., with a $15-20k dealer premium, the GT3 Touring is a $200k car. The market for a LWFW R is $325k. I've even heard of cars at $300k. And they're available.... for now. This is no longer the 911R is $600k and "you're not on the list." I'm not saying $100k is nothing but GT3 Touring owners are willing to pay $100k over the price of normal 911 for a GT3T. Maybe there is someone out there that can afford a GT3 or even a used R and wants to know if there are any differences because on paper they seem pretty much the same. I certainly would.
On a lighter note here is the definitive 911R road test. The test driver has a '14 C4, MT, Aero package, full Tubi she uses as her daily driver.
To me, the R has a certain spryness, if that's even a word, reminiscent of a 964 RS in a contemporary car. I imagine that if we all were together and took one car v. another around the same course on the same day we would all pretty much agree about the "feel" even though one of us might prefer one car over another. My German friends call this "po-po meter."
Footsoldier, unotaz and others are just trying to give readers on this forum a qualified understanding, as best they can, about the dynamics of the car. We all can search the internet for road tests, weight, part numbers, lap times etc. but there is that intangible something that can only come from experience.
This entire debate (and anger) began because of exclusivity and money. But that day is gone. In the U.S., with a $15-20k dealer premium, the GT3 Touring is a $200k car. The market for a LWFW R is $325k. I've even heard of cars at $300k. And they're available.... for now. This is no longer the 911R is $600k and "you're not on the list." I'm not saying $100k is nothing but GT3 Touring owners are willing to pay $100k over the price of normal 911 for a GT3T. Maybe there is someone out there that can afford a GT3 or even a used R and wants to know if there are any differences because on paper they seem pretty much the same. I certainly would.
On a lighter note here is the definitive 911R road test. The test driver has a '14 C4, MT, Aero package, full Tubi she uses as her daily driver.
07-14-2018, 02:07 PM
#393
[QUOTE=wolfmobil;15123456]
My black 911R will be two years old this September. I have had GT3T for 6 months now and after 1,500 miles I will be selling the car or trading it for GT3RS. GT3T is a very capable car. But compare to 911R it is too sterile and not exciting and invokes no emotion in me at all.
Understand major engine and
Understand major engine and
07-14-2018, 02:34 PM
#394
My black 911R will be two years old this September. I have had GT3T for 6 months now and after 1,500 miles I will be selling the car or trading it for GT3RS. GT3T is a very capable car. But compare to 911R it is too sterile and not exciting and invokes no emotion in me at all.
Last edited by Brian Himmelman; 07-14-2018 at 05:34 PM. Reason: Error
07-14-2018, 02:35 PM
#395
Rennlist Member
The only ones getting angry and talking about anger in this thread seem to be the R owners. I have no horse in this race as I wouldn't exchange my 996 GT3 with either of the cars discussed. (OK, I may exchange it with an R but only so I can sell the R and buy my 6gt3 back + have a decent $ chunk left to play with.) Doesn't mean I won't call Porsche marketing BS when I see it. Not a smidgen of anger here on my part.
07-14-2018, 02:36 PM
#396
07-14-2018, 02:39 PM
#397
My touring comes in December, I'll compare it with my R if the weather cooperates in the Northeast at that time. FWIW, no one that I've talked to who has both the new GT3 and the R (obv not touring but still 991.2 manual) has mentioned anything about the new motor FEELING any better or more special as of yet other than being generally awesome as GT3 motors always are. Then again, any of us who have had a 997.2 RS (3.8) still thinks that motor was more fun than the newer variants...
07-14-2018, 03:27 PM
#398
As for allocations. I was offered a healthy profit on my R and an allocation for a GT3, Touring or winged. I turned it down.
07-14-2018, 03:45 PM
#399
Could you expand your premise of 911R engine issues. I have not heard of this from anyone else. None of the 911R owners on this forum has mentioned anything of the sort. I have friends with 911R's they have not had any issues at all, so whats up!
07-14-2018, 04:06 PM
#400
Drifting
Agreed 100%. But it's not CAlexio's fault, as he doesn't know how much track experience you have with your cars, or your level of driving skills Footsoldier. Some owners like to parade their cars around with their entourage, some owners are serial track rats. 
sorry, that's just wrong. You can tell the difference blindfold, or you don't have much feel for a car.
It's frickin tiresome and patronising getting told it's all in the mind, which is I'm sure why people get wound up.
And that's nothing to do with what's 'better', is worth more or otherwise.
sorry, that's just wrong. You can tell the difference blindfold, or you don't have much feel for a car.
It's frickin tiresome and patronising getting told it's all in the mind, which is I'm sure why people get wound up.
And that's nothing to do with what's 'better', is worth more or otherwise.
07-14-2018, 04:16 PM
#401
Drifting
There is actually a really thorough 911R book and goes in-depth on the back story of how the 911R was conceived and developed. I have a copy, but it's like 400 pages.
Off of the top of my head, the 911R was the first Motorsport developed car that was conceived without a set target Nurburgring lap time from the beginning. When Motorsport develops a car, they always have a set target lap time for each new model. In the 911R case, no lap time target was set, and no record attempt was made at the end, which is a first for AP and his team.
Off of the top of my head, the 911R was the first Motorsport developed car that was conceived without a set target Nurburgring lap time from the beginning. When Motorsport develops a car, they always have a set target lap time for each new model. In the 911R case, no lap time target was set, and no record attempt was made at the end, which is a first for AP and his team.
07-14-2018, 04:28 PM
#402
Rennlist Member
Off of the top of my head, the 911R was the first Motorsport developed car that was conceived without a set target Nurburgring lap time from the beginning. When Motorsport develops a car, they always have a set target lap time for each new model. In the 911R case, no lap time target was set, and no record attempt was made at the end, which is a first for AP and his team.
07-14-2018, 04:33 PM
#403
[QUOTE=Suitcase;15141594]I have had no engine issues. I don't know any owner that has. That "tin can" sound that you hear is the sound of "lightness." I agree with you that there are many people that prefer a well insulated car. But for some of us less is more. Clearly this forum has illuminated that you prefer a different configuration regardless of availability. And that's OK.
As for allocations. I was offered a healthy profit on my R and an allocation for a GT3, Touring or winged. I turned it
“Lightness” or “light headedness” ... lol
As for allocations. I was offered a healthy profit on my R and an allocation for a GT3, Touring or winged. I turned it
“Lightness” or “light headedness” ... lol
07-14-2018, 04:36 PM
#404
Pretty sure I could have made a profit, or got a Touring if either was my motivation.
07-14-2018, 04:42 PM
#405
911 R ... yes lots of ridiculous
Last edited by Brian Himmelman; 07-14-2018 at 05:43 PM.