Check out the 911R vs. 991.2 GT3 Manual - TOP GEAR
10-21-2017, 12:30 AM
#61
Race Director
Originally Posted by gago1101
Taking out the R being a numbered car and the crazy market, even msrp seems overpriced. If you factor in it being a numbered car and the name heritage, Porsche had priced the R exactly where it should be, about 40k over a GT3. Look at this way, GT3 is a huge upgrade over a Carrera S, and it only costs about 40k over. Is the 911R that much better than a GT3 to cost 150k more? Or is it that the GT3 is underpriced? Food for thought.
10-21-2017, 01:27 AM
#63
Rennlist Member
You are forgetting the 991 Speedster. If it has the new 4.0 motor, manual, and exotic bodywork with alluring proportions, IMO it will be the most sought after 991.
10-21-2017, 02:21 AM
#64
Three Wheelin'
GT2RS>R>Speedster>RS.2 is my call.
10-21-2017, 05:07 AM
#65
SJW, a Carin' kinda guy
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The details on the R are to personal taste. The stripes, brown leather, carbon trim, and frankly odd looking rear grills just don’t do it for me. OTOH the GT3T I like because less is more. To 99% of the population it could be a base Carrera with fancy wheels. Then again, I am odd because I dislike deviated stitiching and think the corduroy fabric looks great and the rear grill and silver trim and gurney flap are about perfect.
Technologically, the only things the R really has is the LWFW which, based on my past experiences with lightweight flywheels, I would not enjoy and some lightweight panels which I suppose provides some benefit, but for the money most of the weight savings is at the front where it is least useful and personally does not justify the huge cost delta.
Two questions linger in my mind on the GT3T v. R comparison
1. What suspension will the GT3T have. I have read it is the same as the GT3. If so, that is great as I don’t want anything more Road orientated just because it is a touring. If true, I prefer the GT3T.
2. What is the true weight difference between a GT3 991.2 and an R? I am talking apples to apples, not an AC delete and Radio Delete R v. a GT3 with 18way sofas and steel brakes. The less sound deadening, CF and mag can’t add up to all that much in weight savings for the R. 50lbs? 70lbs? Anyone know? I am very suspect that they are a lot closer than one would think and Porsche is covering a bit by not offering AC delete on the GT3. Even adding in the LWFW I can’t imagine it is all that significant.
Hard to tell from internet sources, but I see 3021lbs for an R and 3116lbs for a manual 911.2 GT3 (not touring) so 95lbs on the top line, but you figure both of those are minimum weight spec cars so what, 25lbs for the AC in the GT3, and another few pounds for the LWFW. I also note that the 3116lbs number for the GT3 was before radio delete was an option so who know whether that is factored in or not. The carbon wing is probably close enough to a wash with the motorized spoiler on a touring to not make a significant difference. Maybe there is an engine weight difference too? Anyone weigh the various headlights? All in my guess is you are saving 50lbs (most likely) to 70lbs (tops) with an R from less sound deadening and the CF and mag parts. I would love to see actual cars weighed to back up or refute my guesses.
Technologically, the only things the R really has is the LWFW which, based on my past experiences with lightweight flywheels, I would not enjoy and some lightweight panels which I suppose provides some benefit, but for the money most of the weight savings is at the front where it is least useful and personally does not justify the huge cost delta.
Two questions linger in my mind on the GT3T v. R comparison
1. What suspension will the GT3T have. I have read it is the same as the GT3. If so, that is great as I don’t want anything more Road orientated just because it is a touring. If true, I prefer the GT3T.
2. What is the true weight difference between a GT3 991.2 and an R? I am talking apples to apples, not an AC delete and Radio Delete R v. a GT3 with 18way sofas and steel brakes. The less sound deadening, CF and mag can’t add up to all that much in weight savings for the R. 50lbs? 70lbs? Anyone know? I am very suspect that they are a lot closer than one would think and Porsche is covering a bit by not offering AC delete on the GT3. Even adding in the LWFW I can’t imagine it is all that significant.
Hard to tell from internet sources, but I see 3021lbs for an R and 3116lbs for a manual 911.2 GT3 (not touring) so 95lbs on the top line, but you figure both of those are minimum weight spec cars so what, 25lbs for the AC in the GT3, and another few pounds for the LWFW. I also note that the 3116lbs number for the GT3 was before radio delete was an option so who know whether that is factored in or not. The carbon wing is probably close enough to a wash with the motorized spoiler on a touring to not make a significant difference. Maybe there is an engine weight difference too? Anyone weigh the various headlights? All in my guess is you are saving 50lbs (most likely) to 70lbs (tops) with an R from less sound deadening and the CF and mag parts. I would love to see actual cars weighed to back up or refute my guesses.
Last edited by evilfij; 10-21-2017 at 11:50 AM.
10-21-2017, 09:39 AM
#66
Burning Brakes
My GT3T will be better then a 911R..
Mainly because I will be able to drive it. I did wonder to myself if I had of ended up with a R and the price went silly after would I have felt differently, perhaps a little more inclined to bubble wrap and ensure its value be maintained perhaps. I suspect I would have.
Mainly because I will be able to drive it. I did wonder to myself if I had of ended up with a R and the price went silly after would I have felt differently, perhaps a little more inclined to bubble wrap and ensure its value be maintained perhaps. I suspect I would have.
10-21-2017, 05:18 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
The details on the R are to personal taste. The stripes, brown leather, carbon trim, and frankly odd looking rear grills just don’t do it for me. OTOH the GT3T I like because less is more. To 99% of the population it could be a base Carrera with fancy wheels. Then again, I am odd because I dislike deviated stitiching and think the corduroy fabric looks great and the rear grill and silver trim and gurney flap are about perfect.
Technologically, the only things the R really has is the LWFW which, based on my past experiences with lightweight flywheels, I would not enjoy and some lightweight panels which I suppose provides some benefit, but for the money most of the weight savings is at the front where it is least useful and personally does not justify the huge cost delta.
Two questions linger in my mind on the GT3T v. R comparison
1. What suspension will the GT3T have. I have read it is the same as the GT3. If so, that is great as I don’t want anything more Road orientated just because it is a touring. If true, I prefer the GT3T.
2. What is the true weight difference between a GT3 991.2 and an R? I am talking apples to apples, not an AC delete and Radio Delete R v. a GT3 with 18way sofas and steel brakes. The less sound deadening, CF and mag can’t add up to all that much in weight savings for the R. 50lbs? 70lbs? Anyone know? I am very suspect that they are a lot closer than one would think and Porsche is covering a bit by not offering AC delete on the GT3. Even adding in the LWFW I can’t imagine it is all that significant.
Hard to tell from internet sources, but I see 3021lbs for an R and 3116lbs for a manual 911.2 GT3 (not touring) so 95lbs on the top line, but you figure both of those are minimum weight spec cars so what, 25lbs for the AC in the GT3, and another few pounds for the LWFW. I also note that the 3116lbs number for the GT3 was before radio delete was an option so who know whether that is factored in or not. The carbon wing is probably close enough to a wash with the motorized spoiler on a touring to not make a significant difference. Maybe there is an engine weight difference too? Anyone weigh the various headlights? All in my guess is you are saving 50lbs (most likely) to 70lbs (tops) with an R from less sound deadening and the CF and mag parts. I would love to see actual cars weighed to back up or refute my guesses.
Technologically, the only things the R really has is the LWFW which, based on my past experiences with lightweight flywheels, I would not enjoy and some lightweight panels which I suppose provides some benefit, but for the money most of the weight savings is at the front where it is least useful and personally does not justify the huge cost delta.
Two questions linger in my mind on the GT3T v. R comparison
1. What suspension will the GT3T have. I have read it is the same as the GT3. If so, that is great as I don’t want anything more Road orientated just because it is a touring. If true, I prefer the GT3T.
2. What is the true weight difference between a GT3 991.2 and an R? I am talking apples to apples, not an AC delete and Radio Delete R v. a GT3 with 18way sofas and steel brakes. The less sound deadening, CF and mag can’t add up to all that much in weight savings for the R. 50lbs? 70lbs? Anyone know? I am very suspect that they are a lot closer than one would think and Porsche is covering a bit by not offering AC delete on the GT3. Even adding in the LWFW I can’t imagine it is all that significant.
Hard to tell from internet sources, but I see 3021lbs for an R and 3116lbs for a manual 911.2 GT3 (not touring) so 95lbs on the top line, but you figure both of those are minimum weight spec cars so what, 25lbs for the AC in the GT3, and another few pounds for the LWFW. I also note that the 3116lbs number for the GT3 was before radio delete was an option so who know whether that is factored in or not. The carbon wing is probably close enough to a wash with the motorized spoiler on a touring to not make a significant difference. Maybe there is an engine weight difference too? Anyone weigh the various headlights? All in my guess is you are saving 50lbs (most likely) to 70lbs (tops) with an R from less sound deadening and the CF and mag parts. I would love to see actual cars weighed to back up or refute my guesses.
If if you ordered a GT3T in Europe (so you can do radio delete), and also ordered your GT3T with AC delete, LWB, and PCCB, your GT3T would only weigh 15-20 lbs more than a 911R.
The weight loss of the R is nothing special.
10-21-2017, 05:28 PM
#68
SJW, a Carin' kinda guy
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Weight loss of R is quite minimal compared to GT3T ordered with lighter options. The only unique decreased weight components of the R are the magnesium roof and carbon fiber front fenders, that’s it, and only worth 15-20 lbs.
If if you ordered a GT3T in Europe (so you can do radio delete), and also ordered your GT3T with AC delete, LWB, and PCCB, your GT3T would only weigh 15-20 lbs more than a 911R.
The weight loss of the R is nothing special.
If if you ordered a GT3T in Europe (so you can do radio delete), and also ordered your GT3T with AC delete, LWB, and PCCB, your GT3T would only weigh 15-20 lbs more than a 911R.
The weight loss of the R is nothing special.
10-21-2017, 06:09 PM
#69
Rennlist Member
GT3 fenders, hood, and roof are aluminum. Basically all exterior panels on 991.1 GT3 (or carrera) are aluminum except the complex piece comprising the rear quarter panel/A pillars/roof sides, etc. That piece was deemed too complex and critical by Porsche suppliers to produce in aluminum, so that one is steel.
With 991.2 GT3, the front and rear bumpers are now made of proprietary Porsche polythelene that reduced weight by over one kilo in each bumper, in total 5 pounds less weight than total weight of bumpers on 991.1.
Last edited by Drifting; 10-22-2017 at 02:51 AM.
10-22-2017, 02:04 AM
#70
However I do agree 
According to Car and driver 911R = 3042lbs - car did not have radio or AC. Weight distribution 38.4f 61.6r.
So GT3T should sit around 3100lbs = without radio, wing and AC - not really enough in it to worry about surely.
Last edited by randr; 10-22-2017 at 02:37 AM.
10-22-2017, 03:54 AM
#71
Race Car
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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Taking out the R being a numbered car and the crazy market, even msrp seems overpriced. If you factor in it being a numbered car and the name heritage, Porsche had priced the R exactly where it should be, about 40k over a GT3. Look at this way, GT3 is a huge upgrade over a Carrera S, and it only costs about 40k over. Is the 911R that much better than a GT3 to cost 150k more? Or is it that the GT3 is underpriced? Food for thought.
easy printing money effect will finish soon
Its ages i am saying this either for RS
50k over is more than enough (and close to an M2 price)
10-22-2017, 11:07 AM
#72
Rennlist Member
^ this.
plus......There was a time when a "future collectible" car was still worth half the purchase price within 2 years of being released. (look at 60's ferraris) That meant the buyer was buying the car to enjoy, drive and couldn't care less about depreciation- wealth provided the financial freedom not to care.
The trouble with purchasing something that on day one is worth double what you paid for it (arbitrage) is that you have a tendency to drive it less and treat it as a commodity.
It goes without saying...but the "best" 911 is the one that you own and drive- enjoy.
Remember....if there was a gauge next to your oil pressure and fuel levels that indicated your remaining healthful years left, it would help put things in perspective.
Thanks for the video btw!!
10-24-2017, 09:39 AM
#73
Platinum Dealership
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Guys you can stop arguing about the hypotheticals, since nobody who missed on the R at msrp is going to be able to spec one. Nobody can go back in time and UN-Pass on a 918 or 4.0 or 997 GT2RS.
So- move forward.
Do you want a GT3T or a GT3 Winged?
If so, would you keep your 2016 RS and add a GT3 or sell your RS for a 2018 GT3?
If so what is your expected trade in value for your 2016 RS when you bring it in to the dealer in Jan/Feb/March/April?
If so would that preclude you from getting a 2019/2020 GT3RS?
If you could only pick one (and we’re forced to keep it for 3 years)
GT2RS
GT3 Touring
GT3 Winger
GT3RS
??
Let’s start a meaningful conversation - the reverse time lenses only work irrationally.
So- move forward.
Do you want a GT3T or a GT3 Winged?
If so, would you keep your 2016 RS and add a GT3 or sell your RS for a 2018 GT3?
If so what is your expected trade in value for your 2016 RS when you bring it in to the dealer in Jan/Feb/March/April?
If so would that preclude you from getting a 2019/2020 GT3RS?
If you could only pick one (and we’re forced to keep it for 3 years)
GT2RS
GT3 Touring
GT3 Winger
GT3RS
??
Let’s start a meaningful conversation - the reverse time lenses only work irrationally.
10-24-2017, 09:53 AM
#74
Burning Brakes
+1. GT3 Touring .. I liked the R for the wingless look and liked the 997GT Manual with NA, cant really spec or make them new again, but can on the touring, so thats my choice. If I dont take a leap into a cup car, then a S/H 991.1 RS should be at an attractive price point for a GT car to sit around and only track on Saturdays.
We can complain about a lot of things but cant really complain we don't have a wide choice of 911 variants..
We can complain about a lot of things but cant really complain we don't have a wide choice of 911 variants..
Guys you can stop arguing about the hypotheticals, since nobody who missed on the R at msrp is going to be able to spec one. Nobody can go back in time and UN-Pass on a 918 or 4.0 or 997 GT2RS.
So- move forward.
Do you want a GT3T or a GT3 Winged?
If so, would you keep your 2016 RS and add a GT3 or sell your RS for a 2018 GT3?
If so what is your expected trade in value for your 2016 RS when you bring it in to the dealer in Jan/Feb/March/April?
If so would that preclude you from getting a 2019/2020 GT3RS?
If you could only pick one (and we’re forced to keep it for 3 years)
GT2RS
GT3 Touring
GT3 Winger
GT3RS
??
Let’s start a meaningful conversation - the reverse time lenses only work irrationally.
So- move forward.
Do you want a GT3T or a GT3 Winged?
If so, would you keep your 2016 RS and add a GT3 or sell your RS for a 2018 GT3?
If so what is your expected trade in value for your 2016 RS when you bring it in to the dealer in Jan/Feb/March/April?
If so would that preclude you from getting a 2019/2020 GT3RS?
If you could only pick one (and we’re forced to keep it for 3 years)
GT2RS
GT3 Touring
GT3 Winger
GT3RS
??
Let’s start a meaningful conversation - the reverse time lenses only work irrationally.
10-24-2017, 10:34 AM
#75
Drifting
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Toronto - Exuma - Montego Bay
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Guys you can stop arguing about the hypotheticals, since nobody who missed on the R at msrp is going to be able to spec one. Nobody can go back in time and UN-Pass on a 918 or 4.0 or 997 GT2RS.
So- move forward.
Do you want a GT3T or a GT3 Winged?
If so, would you keep your 2016 RS and add a GT3 or sell your RS for a 2018 GT3?
If so what is your expected trade in value for your 2016 RS when you bring it in to the dealer in Jan/Feb/March/April?
If so would that preclude you from getting a 2019/2020 GT3RS?
If you could only pick one (and we’re forced to keep it for 3 years)
GT2RS
GT3 Touring
GT3 Winger
GT3RS
??
Let’s start a meaningful conversation - the reverse time lenses only work irrationally.
So- move forward.
Do you want a GT3T or a GT3 Winged?
If so, would you keep your 2016 RS and add a GT3 or sell your RS for a 2018 GT3?
If so what is your expected trade in value for your 2016 RS when you bring it in to the dealer in Jan/Feb/March/April?
If so would that preclude you from getting a 2019/2020 GT3RS?
If you could only pick one (and we’re forced to keep it for 3 years)
GT2RS
GT3 Touring
GT3 Winger
GT3RS
??
Let’s start a meaningful conversation - the reverse time lenses only work irrationally.
GT3 - Winged
