How'd you decide between tracking your GT3/GT3RS versus a dedicated track car?
09-04-2017, 05:56 PM
#46
I would decide depending on:
- Distance to your favorite track: You will not want to putting too many miles on your GT car with soft tires, also you may need a more comfortable car for longer drives of after a too tough driving session / race.
- Budget: GT3 RS track only and Turbo S cabrio for the weekend? Also if you don't want to spend much a GT car at the track won't be your friend, you will spend a lot in maintenance and parts if you track it too hard.
- How often do you track: Again, GT car every weekend at the track can be expensinve.
- Skill level: If you have mid to high skills you will be putting the car on the edge, so you will spend more in parts/maintenance probably and the risk will be higher.
- Fun or competition: GT car for 7 trackdays a year just for fun? Then no way you should have a second track car. To compete probably budget will limit you on using a GT car, or you would buy a cup car maybe?
- Distance to your favorite track: You will not want to putting too many miles on your GT car with soft tires, also you may need a more comfortable car for longer drives of after a too tough driving session / race.
- Budget: GT3 RS track only and Turbo S cabrio for the weekend? Also if you don't want to spend much a GT car at the track won't be your friend, you will spend a lot in maintenance and parts if you track it too hard.
- How often do you track: Again, GT car every weekend at the track can be expensinve.
- Skill level: If you have mid to high skills you will be putting the car on the edge, so you will spend more in parts/maintenance probably and the risk will be higher.
- Fun or competition: GT car for 7 trackdays a year just for fun? Then no way you should have a second track car. To compete probably budget will limit you on using a GT car, or you would buy a cup car maybe?
09-05-2017, 11:53 PM
#47
I have a 16 gt3..... used to track motorcycles....
went to chin event and and instructor raced a corvette.... at the end of the day he suggested I get a dedicated track car..... he said I would push hard and would be sad when I damaged my gt3.... he never said if....
another friend said the same....
i bought a dedicated cayman and now I get their advice..... if I go off I don't get all worried and go check on my car.... thru the pit .... track crew check for damage and back out....
the enjoyment and permission to push push hard and learn is well worth it.....
it is up to your desire to push your car and your budget / lack of desire to hurt your gt3/RS ultimately....
(btw new to cars so some of the others tracking cars for 10/20 years may differ in opinion)
good luck and have fun!
Cheers!
went to chin event and and instructor raced a corvette.... at the end of the day he suggested I get a dedicated track car..... he said I would push hard and would be sad when I damaged my gt3.... he never said if....
another friend said the same....
i bought a dedicated cayman and now I get their advice..... if I go off I don't get all worried and go check on my car.... thru the pit .... track crew check for damage and back out....
the enjoyment and permission to push push hard and learn is well worth it.....
it is up to your desire to push your car and your budget / lack of desire to hurt your gt3/RS ultimately....
(btw new to cars so some of the others tracking cars for 10/20 years may differ in opinion)
good luck and have fun!
Cheers!
09-06-2017, 12:04 AM
#48
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It's not just a matter of bad or good luck. Effective risk management can dramatically reduce the odds of crashing. In most fields, the difference in incident rate between the best and worst operators is about 10x.
In a DE environment, if you do thousands of days, odds are that you'll crash. But you can do hundreds of days without crashing if you manage risk well and don't have too much bad luck. Few people do more than hundreds of days.
09-06-2017, 01:21 AM
#49
This.
I found myself doing a 2:07.12 at Watkins Glen in my 997.2 RS and knowing that there was a better time in the car. Pushing WAY too hard in a street car on R compound tires, even one with a cage/harnesses/HANS. Decided that was just dumb. Built a car with all the safety stuff that I could go race down the line. Ran it in open track DE events for a year then took it racing which is now how I spend most of my track time. Much more fun being in a fully equipped car because you feel a lot more comfortable pushing to 8, 9, 10/10ths. As an aside, the 265hp base Cayman race car did a 2:06.8 at the Glen this year. No wing, less tire, 190 fewer HP. Worth 50% as much, is faster, and is at least double the fun.
I found myself doing a 2:07.12 at Watkins Glen in my 997.2 RS and knowing that there was a better time in the car. Pushing WAY too hard in a street car on R compound tires, even one with a cage/harnesses/HANS. Decided that was just dumb. Built a car with all the safety stuff that I could go race down the line. Ran it in open track DE events for a year then took it racing which is now how I spend most of my track time. Much more fun being in a fully equipped car because you feel a lot more comfortable pushing to 8, 9, 10/10ths. As an aside, the 265hp base Cayman race car did a 2:06.8 at the Glen this year. No wing, less tire, 190 fewer HP. Worth 50% as much, is faster, and is at least double the fun.
Here's an onboard from one of my practice sessions to give you a sense of the experience:
09-06-2017, 02:19 AM
#50
Looks really fast in the radical, but to me a little bit boring too.
In the gT3 you have much more to manage.
In the gT3 you have much more to manage.
09-06-2017, 09:36 AM
#51
The Radical rewards precision and major commitment to corner entry. Braking zones are quite short and it's easy to blow a turn-in unless you're 100% focused. Things happen fast - much faster than any street car.
09-06-2017, 12:38 PM
#52
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You can do 1000 track days and mange risk at 100%. But you will always be on the track with others, some of which will be unpredictable, maybe even stupid at times. Also hard to predict a tire going down, coolant on the track, etc.
I know people who've crashed within their first 10 track days, or multiple times in a hundred days. I also know people who've gone hundreds of days without crashing.
It's not just a matter of bad or good luck. Effective risk management can dramatically reduce the odds of crashing. In most fields, the difference in incident rate between the best and worst operators is about 10x.
In a DE environment, if you do thousands of days, odds are that you'll crash. But you can do hundreds of days without crashing if you manage risk well and don't have too much bad luck. Few people do more than hundreds of days.
It's not just a matter of bad or good luck. Effective risk management can dramatically reduce the odds of crashing. In most fields, the difference in incident rate between the best and worst operators is about 10x.
In a DE environment, if you do thousands of days, odds are that you'll crash. But you can do hundreds of days without crashing if you manage risk well and don't have too much bad luck. Few people do more than hundreds of days.
09-06-2017, 12:47 PM
#53
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Risk can never be zero, but it can be reduced a lot with good risk management. We can reduce both the likelihood of crashing, and also the consequences if we do crash. I don't know what "manage risk at 100%" means - resources are finite and there are usually tradeoffs involved in our risk management decisions.
09-06-2017, 01:10 PM
#54
Drifting
I know people who've crashed within their first 10 track days, or multiple times in a hundred days. I also know people who've gone hundreds of days without crashing.
It's not just a matter of bad or good luck. Effective risk management can dramatically reduce the odds of crashing. In most fields, the difference in incident rate between the best and worst operators is about 10x.
In a DE environment, if you do thousands of days, odds are that you'll crash. But you can do hundreds of days without crashing if you manage risk well and don't have too much bad luck. Few people do more than hundreds of days.
It's not just a matter of bad or good luck. Effective risk management can dramatically reduce the odds of crashing. In most fields, the difference in incident rate between the best and worst operators is about 10x.
In a DE environment, if you do thousands of days, odds are that you'll crash. But you can do hundreds of days without crashing if you manage risk well and don't have too much bad luck. Few people do more than hundreds of days.
I am comfortable with the risk, however I am not trying to push my car to the utmost 100%. I know my limits and try not put myself or my car in danger. I know things break and that is out of my control, and that is the risk I am willing to take. However, after a few sessions you get a feel for your fellow drivers- you know who to give space, who to let pass even if you may be quicker, ect ect. That is what I assume you mean by Risk Management.
09-06-2017, 03:35 PM
#55
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Agree with this. I have taken my RS to at least 10 track days this summer, have witnessed numerous people have offs-- however most were predictable. It was obvious who was pushing beyond what was a safe limit of either their vehicle or their talents.
I am comfortable with the risk, however I am not trying to push my car to the utmost 100%. I know my limits and try not put myself or my car in danger. I know things break and that is out of my control, and that is the risk I am willing to take. However, after a few sessions you get a feel for your fellow drivers- you know who to give space, who to let pass even if you may be quicker, ect ect. That is what I assume you mean by Risk Management.
I am comfortable with the risk, however I am not trying to push my car to the utmost 100%. I know my limits and try not put myself or my car in danger. I know things break and that is out of my control, and that is the risk I am willing to take. However, after a few sessions you get a feel for your fellow drivers- you know who to give space, who to let pass even if you may be quicker, ect ect. That is what I assume you mean by Risk Management.
Good pros can drive faster than any of us, while keeping the likelihood of a crash lower than us - it's definitely not just about how fast the car is being driven.
09-07-2017, 10:38 AM
#56
Instructor
I'm new to DE events but absolutely love it. I have a 2015 GT3 and have upgraded it with a roll bar, race seats and 6 point belts. I don't think I'm that interested in racing but I sometimes think a dedicated track car would be better. For those who've tracked a lot, why have you decided to track your GT3/GT3RS versus a dedicated track car? I'd be especially interested in those who had a track car and decided to focus on driving their GT3s on the track. Thanks in advance for any insights you have!
For the cost: I have a modified street car. I have an enclosed trailer and two sets of track wheels (Yokohama slicks). I wanted to drive my car on the street between races and do not have a big enough garage to store a dedicated track car and don't want to spend a lot of $$ on storage. Tracking a car with a warranty is key as well. I lost my transmission after a track weekend at Laguna Seca and the dealership replaced it under warranty...no questions asked (especially about the cage, race seats and suspension
)If you are going to race wheel to wheel then get a dedicated track car. That's a whole different ball game. If you are doing DE, time trial or time attack I think a street legal car with safety and performance mods is the way to go.
If you can, wrap you car head to toe with protective film...helps a ton with track rash. It costs $2000 to wrap the front half of a car in SoCal...But it costs $300 for a whole new hood on ebay! Still have to paint it, etc. $395 for the front lip from Suncoast.
I am sure you will find your work/life/track balance, grasshopper.
09-07-2017, 12:31 PM
#57
early last year at Sebring, i had a brake failure.
coming into turn 10, (now i know why people replace pads close to 1/3 of the pad left)
the pad exploded into the braking zone.
you know the hump into turn 10 where you brake at full speed.
pedal went to the floor, i hooked a hard right into the grass and whizzed by the flagger and hugged the grass all the way to the trees.
the three cars in front of me didnt even know i was coming. i was lucky not to hit anybody or anything.
3 months later, same turn, a gt3, lambo and mclaren are in front of me, my left rear caliper fell off!!! and into my wheel well. the bolts stripped out.
i did the same maneuver. almost high fived the flagger and almost **** my pants on this one.
almost a millon dollars worth of cars in front of me.
somtimes risk is out of your control even when your not at fault.
i check my brakes now even after a proper tech inspection. sometimes mechanics make mistakes too.
i was pretty pissed when my caiber fell off.
coming into turn 10, (now i know why people replace pads close to 1/3 of the pad left)
the pad exploded into the braking zone.
you know the hump into turn 10 where you brake at full speed.
pedal went to the floor, i hooked a hard right into the grass and whizzed by the flagger and hugged the grass all the way to the trees.
the three cars in front of me didnt even know i was coming. i was lucky not to hit anybody or anything.
3 months later, same turn, a gt3, lambo and mclaren are in front of me, my left rear caliper fell off!!! and into my wheel well. the bolts stripped out.
i did the same maneuver. almost high fived the flagger and almost **** my pants on this one.
almost a millon dollars worth of cars in front of me.
somtimes risk is out of your control even when your not at fault.
i check my brakes now even after a proper tech inspection. sometimes mechanics make mistakes too.
i was pretty pissed when my caiber fell off.
09-07-2017, 01:46 PM
#58
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early last year at Sebring, i had a brake failure.
coming into turn 10, (now i know why people replace pads close to 1/3 of the pad left)
the pad exploded into the braking zone.
you know the hump into turn 10 where you brake at full speed.
pedal went to the floor, i hooked a hard right into the grass and whizzed by the flagger and hugged the grass all the way to the trees.
the three cars in front of me didnt even know i was coming. i was lucky not to hit anybody or anything.
3 months later, same turn, a gt3, lambo and mclaren are in front of me, my left rear caliper fell off!!! and into my wheel well. the bolts stripped out.
i did the same maneuver. almost high fived the flagger and almost **** my pants on this one.
almost a millon dollars worth of cars in front of me.
somtimes risk is out of your control even when your not at fault.
i check my brakes now even after a proper tech inspection. sometimes mechanics make mistakes too.
i was pretty pissed when my caiber fell off.
coming into turn 10, (now i know why people replace pads close to 1/3 of the pad left)
the pad exploded into the braking zone.
you know the hump into turn 10 where you brake at full speed.
pedal went to the floor, i hooked a hard right into the grass and whizzed by the flagger and hugged the grass all the way to the trees.
the three cars in front of me didnt even know i was coming. i was lucky not to hit anybody or anything.
3 months later, same turn, a gt3, lambo and mclaren are in front of me, my left rear caliper fell off!!! and into my wheel well. the bolts stripped out.
i did the same maneuver. almost high fived the flagger and almost **** my pants on this one.
almost a millon dollars worth of cars in front of me.
somtimes risk is out of your control even when your not at fault.
i check my brakes now even after a proper tech inspection. sometimes mechanics make mistakes too.
i was pretty pissed when my caiber fell off.
09-07-2017, 06:45 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Street car is perfectly fine when you start out. A couple things eventually happen:
- You start to consistently scare yourself with your cornering speed
- You hit diminishing returns with your laptimes
- You get tired of prepping your street car for track weekends only to reverse that the Monday after
- You've driven a dedicated trackcar of any kind
When any two of the above happens, you'll get a track car.
- You start to consistently scare yourself with your cornering speed
- You hit diminishing returns with your laptimes
- You get tired of prepping your street car for track weekends only to reverse that the Monday after
- You've driven a dedicated trackcar of any kind
When any two of the above happens, you'll get a track car.