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Old 02-05-2019, 07:17 PM
  #3181  
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Originally Posted by surfer View Post
Hey "Socal" YMMV but after 2 years I lost 20% on my 2010 California and after 2 years I lost 11% on my 2014 458 Spider. I know the 488's are taking a beating that's why you didn't get the Spider because the dealer was going to rob you on your GTB.

Speciale/SA/TDF/Pista/Pista Spyder are going to command resale premiums barring an economic downturn.

Anyhow, ask a TTS/FF/Lusso owner about depreciation if you want to know what real pain is.
sup surfer. Yup- I bailed on the 488 spider and decided to just enjoy the grb. They were dangling the spider build to be able to get a Pista - blah blah- I said screw it and got my 720 and just kept the gtb. Best decision ever.

yeah- lusso and FF. Oof!
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:26 PM
  #3182  
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I have a 570GT and an RS. I don’t track my cars much at all because well.....race cars. So, for me the 720 is the ticket. I’ll be putting my 570 up for sale shortly and the RS might not be far behind it. I’ve owned a lot of P cars and the 570 has been a great experience. The Mclaren has such a different personality all together.

I think the 600LT values will stay high for quite a long time.
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:26 PM
  #3183  
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Originally Posted by surfer View Post
Hey "Socal" YMMV but after 2 years I lost 20% on my 2010 California and after 2 years I lost 11% on my 2014 458 Spider. I know the 488's are taking a beating that's why you didn't get the Spider because the dealer was going to rob you on your GTB.

Speciale/SA/TDF/Pista/Pista Spyder are going to command resale premiums barring an economic downturn.

Anyhow, ask a TTS/FF/Lusso owner about depreciation if you want to know what real pain is.
btw- 458 spider did very well in terms of depreciation. 488 not as good.
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:28 PM
  #3184  
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Originally Posted by forhamilton View Post
I think the 600LT values will stay high for quite a long time.
You wonít regret the 720 and yes, I think the 600 will do quite well.
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:34 PM
  #3185  
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Originally Posted by surfer View Post
Having own two modern Ferrari's, one Lambo and two Porsche's and using all 5 as daily drivers I disagree that Ferrari and Lambo reliability is inferior to Porsche. All 3 brands have been very reliable in my ownership. Lambo has benefited greatly from Audi regarding it's reliability. Ferrari offers 7 years of included maintenance and their factory backed Power extended warranty is among the best in the business. So is Lambo's factory backed extended warranty if you're worried about reliability.

Sam nailed it. Ferrari and Lambo provide a sense of occasion and make every drive an event that Porsche can't match. Pedestrians snap their necks, other drivers give thumbs up, kids have the widest smiles and camera phones are ubiquitous.

Where I live 911's are as common as Camry's and my GR GT3 doesn't get anymore attention than a Cayman. Obviously I love and respect the brand but it's not an exotic and short of the 918 never will be.

Finally, disagree with you as depreciation of the top Ferrari models i.e Speciale, Speciale Aperta, Pista is as good/ better as the Porsche GT cars.
Good to hear that you have had solid reliability with Ferrari and Lamborghini. As i said, that is just my perception and it could be heavily influenced by older models, especially from Lamborghini. But i have read reports that Audi cleaned that up. Prior to the 458 I think reliability was more an issue with Ferrari, but again it looks like things are much better now. Also agree that GT3s arenít nearly exotic as either of the other 3. I drove past a Lamborghini once in my GT3 and it made me feel like i was in a Honda Civic in comparison lol. As far as depreciation of Ferrari goes, you have owned them and I have not, so that counts for something. But just going off my experience shopping for 458s and F12s I see a lot of cars that are $100k off sticker after 3 or 4 years, and that is with regard to the last NA. I imagine the 488 will be a lot worse in a few years. Again, just a perception. But honestly, nothing beats depreciation like my 2005 LX 470, which i paid $34k for 10 years ago, and is now being listed for $22k. But apples and watermelons.

Ultimately i would be super happy to own any of the 4 brands, but given limited funds i need to be a lot more critical over purchases like this. If I had $300k to $400k to spend on another car, I would probably be shopping for one of those three as well. But with a sub $200k budget i donít think Porsche can be beat. In any case, good on you for being able to own those exotics.
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:45 PM
  #3186  
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My 488 has been bulletproof in terms of reliability. My warranty runs out in May and I have no intention of rewneing it.
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:46 PM
  #3187  
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Originally Posted by Yippiekiaye View Post
My 488 has been bulletproof in terms of reliability. My warranty runs out in May and I have no intention of rewneing it.
That says something.
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:47 PM
  #3188  
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For a sub 200k budget, you cannot best a Porsche. I mean- the Porsche cars are great and all- super awesome and engaging to drive- Iím not telling you guys something you donít already know. But they arenít an ďexoticĒ. And thatís ok too. Something you wanna just drive the **** out of the car and have fun, sometimes you want to drive and be seen. No right or wrong.
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Old 02-05-2019, 08:30 PM
  #3189  
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Originally Posted by surfer View Post
Having own two modern Ferrari's, one Lambo and two Porsche's and using all 5 as daily drivers I disagree that Ferrari and Lambo reliability is inferior to Porsche. All 3 brands have been very reliable in my ownership. Lambo has benefited greatly from Audi regarding it's reliability. Ferrari offers 7 years of included maintenance and their factory backed Power extended warranty is among the best in the business. So is Lambo's factory backed extended warranty if you're worried about reliability.

Sam nailed it. Ferrari and Lambo provide a sense of occasion and make every drive an event that Porsche can't match. Pedestrians snap their necks, other drivers give thumbs up, kids have the widest smiles and camera phones are ubiquitous.

Where I live 911's are as common as Camry's and my GR GT3 doesn't get anymore attention than a Cayman. Obviously I love and respect the brand but it's not an exotic and short of the 918 never will be.

Finally, disagree with you as depreciation of the top Ferrari models i.e Speciale, Speciale Aperta, Pista is as good/ better as the Porsche GT cars.
It depends on how you define reliability. Modern Ferraris are certainly more reliable than older models......when driven as you state you use them, as a daily driver. Maybe you do an occasional canyon run.
If you use them for what they are sold as and described to be---- "a performance car", i.e. on the track, even the modern ferraris are fragile and break all the time. Ask the guys who run the exotic racing in vegas,.... how long do 458/488s last with regular track use? answer, not long particularly compared to a Porsche. I've also tracked for a decade and notice the Ferrari drivers have way more problems than the Porsches.

Agree that lambo reliability has dramatically improved and is basically at Porsche level, now that VW is running both factories.

Regarding depreciation, you need to compare apples to apples. I agree Pista depreciation is great, but you need to compare the Pista to the GT2RS which is most similar Porsche both in performance and in rarity.

Regular 458/488 depreciation is not identical but similar to regular GT3/RS depreciation. California depreciation is similar to Carrera depreciation.

Agree that Porsches are common in SoCal and you get much more attention driving a Lambo or Ferrari than a Porsche GT car.....if that matters to you.
I also live in SoCal but I don't care about keeping up with the Kardiasians etc. I'm not insecure about my equipment ;-)

Last edited by Drifting; 02-06-2019 at 01:52 AM.
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Old 02-05-2019, 08:41 PM
  #3190  
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Originally Posted by forhamilton View Post
I have a 570GT and an RS. I donít track my cars much at all because well.....race cars. So, for me the 720 is the ticket. Iíll be putting my 570 up for sale shortly and the RS might not be far behind it. Iíve owned a lot of P cars and the 570 has been a great experience. The Mclaren has such a different personality all together.

I think the 600LT values will stay high for quite a long time.
600 LT values, like most cars, will suffer with new iteration.- that will be the 720LT.

But they will come down, considerably, when that happens. No different than 720s today
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Old 02-05-2019, 08:58 PM
  #3191  
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Originally Posted by Yippiekiaye View Post


btw- 458 spider did very well in terms of depreciation. 488 not as good.
Back in 13 I signed a 12 month ROFR when I took delivery of my Spider, they were going over MSRP on the secondary market at the time. Now I get hit up every so often to order a 488 Spider, too many being made to maintain exclusivity.

Originally Posted by robmypro View Post


Good to hear that you have had solid reliability with Ferrari and Lamborghini. As i said, that is just my perception and it could be heavily influenced by older models, especially from Lamborghini. But i have read reports that Audi cleaned that up. Prior to the 458 I think reliability was more an issue with Ferrari, but again it looks like things are much better now. Also agree that GT3s arenít nearly exotic as either of the other 3. I drove past a Lamborghini once in my GT3 and it made me feel like i was in a Honda Civic in comparison lol. As far as depreciation of Ferrari goes, you have owned them and I have not, so that counts for something. But just going off my experience shopping for 458s and F12s I see a lot of cars that are $100k off sticker after 3 or 4 years, and that is with regard to the last NA. I imagine the 488 will be a lot worse in a few years. Again, just a perception. But honestly, nothing beats depreciation like my 2005 LX 470, which i paid $34k for 10 years ago, and is now being listed for $22k. But apples and watermelons.

Ultimately i would be super happy to own any of the 4 brands, but given limited funds i need to be a lot more critical over purchases like this. If I had $300k to $400k to spend on another car, I would probably be shopping for one of those three as well. But with a sub $200k budget i donít think Porsche can be beat. In any case, good on you for being able to own those exotics.
Take a dip on this side of the pool, the water's warm and you won't regret it

Originally Posted by robmypro View Post


That says something.
Socal drives his rigs so it does say something.

Originally Posted by Drifting View Post
It depends on how you define reliability. Modern Ferraris are certainly more reliable than older models......when driven as you state you use them, as a daily driver. Maybe you do an occasional canyon run.
If you use them for what they are sold as and described to be---- "a performance car", i.e. on the track, even the modern ferraris are fragile and break all the time. Ask the guys who run the exotic racing in vegas,.... how long do 458/488s last with regular track use? answer, not long particularly compared to a Porsche. I've also tracked for a decade and notice the Ferrari drivers have way more problems than the Porsches.

Agree that lambo reliability has dramatically improved and is basically at Porsche level, now that VW is running both factories.

Regarding depreciation, you need to compare apples to apples. I agree Pista depreciation is great, but you need to compare to the GT2RS which is most similar Porsche both in performance and in rarity.

Regular 458/488 depreciation is not identical but similar to regular GT3/RS depreciation. California depreciation is similar to Carrera depreciation.

Agree that Porsches are common in SoCal and you get much more attention driving a Lambo or Ferrari than a Porsche GT car.....if that matters to you.
I also live in SoCal but I don't care about keeping up with the Kardiasians etc. I'm not insecure about my equipment ;-)
OP specifically said "Depreciation isnít terrible on top cars but Porsche is still better". If you consider 488 GTBs and California's to be top F-cars you might want to spend some time on F-chat.

Originally Posted by Jimmy-D View Post
600 LT values, like most cars, will suffer with new iteration.- that will be the 720LT.

But they will come down, considerably, when that happens. No different than 720s today
600 LT is Sports Series and 720LT is Super Series. Does a new GT3 cause downward pressure on GT4? Does a new GT2RS cause downward pressure on a GT3 RS?
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Old 02-05-2019, 10:14 PM
  #3192  
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Iíve been out of the country in Germany, UK where I visited the Mclaren factory and now in the east coast. I get home Friday where Iím Super excited to see my family and take my 720 out for a spin. Been a week. I miss the drive.
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:02 AM
  #3193  
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Originally Posted by surfer View Post
Anyhow, ask a TTS/FF/Lusso owner about depreciation if you want to know what real pain is.
ask a FF/Lusso owner if you want to know what real joy is.
or about which car those owner prefer most - and with which car he had the most fun/pleasure/emotions with.
will he say the FF/Lusso where he "invested" 100k or will he say a 7 Series, A8, Cayenne, Panamera, etc. where he lost in the same time maybe 50k in comparison.



but that's a McLaren thread.



i like also "up to speed"
the guy is crazy but funny
and they deliver always also some facts.



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Old 02-06-2019, 01:53 AM
  #3194  
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I always look to the exotic rental companies as the best data points for reliability comparison. Even the ultra wealthy owners that can afford fleets full of exotics from every marque, is ultimately only 1 person. If he only puts a few hundred miles on each car, is it really the best comparison of reliability?

Exotic car rental companies have fleets of cars, often times have multiple of the same car (helps reduce effect of statistical outliers), and their cars rack up insane miles with drivers that abuse them. From all the owners I've talked to, they all universally said Ferrari and Porsche were their most reliable cars. Lamborghini Huracans are also extremely reliable, but that's it for Lambos. They all universally said that their McLaren cars have the most problems.

Royalty Exotic cars in Las Vegas has a Huracan that has 150K+ miles on it now. They said it's never given them any major problems, along with all their other Huracans. They also had a 488 Spider that got to 95K miles without major problems. Their GT3 RS has about 60K miles and had to do an engine swap (which Porsche covered under warranty surprisingly), but no other problems there. Contrast that to their McLaren, they currently have 4 of them, all with under 40K miles, and often times 2 of them are down and unable to be rented.
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Old 02-06-2019, 02:00 AM
  #3195  
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Originally Posted by jo_ker View Post
ask a FF/Lusso owner if you want to know what real joy is.
or about which car those owner prefer most - and with which car he had the most fun/pleasure/emotions with.
will he say the FF/Lusso where he "invested" 100k or will he say a 7 Series, A8, Cayenne, Panamera, etc. where he lost in the same time maybe 50k in comparison.



but that's a McLaren thread.



i like also "up to speed"
the guy is crazy but funny
and they deliver always also some facts.



https://youtu.be/aW6KTpHWbTw
This used to be my car
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