911R PTS
06-22-2016, 03:48 PM
#181
That 'someone else' Whoopsy is referring to is me. And there
is a lesson to be learned here at Rennlist about this whole incident.
You can either take 'incomplete' information & run with it. Or you
can be more careful & measured when you post here about PTS.
And please double-check with reliable sources at PAG & PCNA
before posting definitive-sounding statements that could turn
out to be false or misleading. It's up to all of you to decide which
method gives you the most accurate information & serves best
the interest of our forum. The credibility of Rennlist as at risk.
This forum counts on you getting it right & not propagating
false rumors!
*****
Here is the history of this 'incident' for those interested in the
particulars. It all started on this thread back in late April:
****
Which leads up to Whoopsy's so-called update yesterday:
So here is the bottom line. Whoopsy's statement which
he posted on 4/23/2016 which said 'Sorry Eduardo...
True PTS are sent off to a 3rd party for all models be it
a Stuttgart production car or Leipzig production car'
was admittedly false.
And to prevent further confusion (which his original posting
has created ever since!), I feel the need to point out that
the statements made yesterday about 3rd party PTS at Leipzig,
if left unchallenged, will lead to more confusion on the topic,
not less! Let me explain:
I believe that one of Whoopsy's statement yesterday is also
incorrect & misleading. He states that "PTS is done by a 3rd
party in Leipzig. So the Panamera and Cayennes gets the 3rd
party treatment only. I was told 'all cars are painted by
3rd party' in Leipzig, which is correct in the person's point
of view as all cars from 'Leipzig' which is that factory."
This is not so. All Panameras have been welded together
& painted at a VW plant in Hanover since day one for that
model. So all Panameras are painted at Hanover, whether
it's standard color offerings or PTS. To say PTS is done by
a third party is misleading. Similarly, all Cayennes are welded,
painted & partially assembled in Bratislavia, Slovakia at another
VW Group plant. That has been the case since day one of that
model. So any Cayenne that is painted standard colors & those
rare PTS examples are done in Bratislava. The Macan is welded,
painted & assembled almost 100% at Leipzig*. I believe that
PTS Macans are done at Leipzig's state-of-the-art paint facility
& not by a 3rd party. And until they move all 718 Cayman
production to Stuttgart from the VW Group Karmann plant at
Osnabrück (expected in the future), the 981-era Caymans &
even some 981 Boxsters were welded, painted & assembled
at that facility. And that includes Cayman PTS. So to say that
this makes PTS a third party proposition Leipzig's Panamera,
Cayenne or Macan is either false or misleading. PAG doesn't
consider the Hanover, Bratislava & Osnabrück facilities as
'third party' vendors or sub-contractors, as was implied in
Whoopsy's statement.
I contacted Porsche officials after Whoopsy made his grandiose
statements on April 23rd on this forum. They refused to engage
simply because the claim he made of third party PTS was deemed
so wrong it didn't merit a response. Yet here at Rennlist, because
Whoopsy owns a 918 & attends all sorts of 918 events sponsored
by PAG, many assumed he must be 'totally in the know'. Well, that
was not the case this time around. Instead, we all got 'schooled',
or at least taken on a dubious ride, not just 'Mr. PTS'.
You, the reader, must decide what to believe you read on Rennlist
about PTS & consider carefully the sources where that information
is coming from. Also if the person relaying the 'information' has
the experience necessary to understand the larger picture behind
statements bandied about at a PAG event. So caveat emptor.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
*Petrol engines are all assembled in Stuttgart. Hybrid/diesel engines
may be put together elsewhere.
is a lesson to be learned here at Rennlist about this whole incident.
You can either take 'incomplete' information & run with it. Or you
can be more careful & measured when you post here about PTS.
And please double-check with reliable sources at PAG & PCNA
before posting definitive-sounding statements that could turn
out to be false or misleading. It's up to all of you to decide which
method gives you the most accurate information & serves best
the interest of our forum. The credibility of Rennlist as at risk.
This forum counts on you getting it right & not propagating
false rumors!
*****
Here is the history of this 'incident' for those interested in the
particulars. It all started on this thread back in late April:
****
Which leads up to Whoopsy's so-called update yesterday:
So here is the bottom line. Whoopsy's statement which
he posted on 4/23/2016 which said 'Sorry Eduardo...
True PTS are sent off to a 3rd party for all models be it
a Stuttgart production car or Leipzig production car'
was admittedly false.
And to prevent further confusion (which his original posting
has created ever since!), I feel the need to point out that
the statements made yesterday about 3rd party PTS at Leipzig,
if left unchallenged, will lead to more confusion on the topic,
not less! Let me explain:
I believe that one of Whoopsy's statement yesterday is also
incorrect & misleading. He states that "PTS is done by a 3rd
party in Leipzig. So the Panamera and Cayennes gets the 3rd
party treatment only. I was told 'all cars are painted by
3rd party' in Leipzig, which is correct in the person's point
of view as all cars from 'Leipzig' which is that factory."
This is not so. All Panameras have been welded together
& painted at a VW plant in Hanover since day one for that
model. So all Panameras are painted at Hanover, whether
it's standard color offerings or PTS. To say PTS is done by
a third party is misleading. Similarly, all Cayennes are welded,
painted & partially assembled in Bratislavia, Slovakia at another
VW Group plant. That has been the case since day one of that
model. So any Cayenne that is painted standard colors & those
rare PTS examples are done in Bratislava. The Macan is welded,
painted & assembled almost 100% at Leipzig*. I believe that
PTS Macans are done at Leipzig's state-of-the-art paint facility
& not by a 3rd party. And until they move all 718 Cayman
production to Stuttgart from the VW Group Karmann plant at
Osnabrück (expected in the future), the 981-era Caymans &
even some 981 Boxsters were welded, painted & assembled
at that facility. And that includes Cayman PTS. So to say that
this makes PTS a third party proposition Leipzig's Panamera,
Cayenne or Macan is either false or misleading. PAG doesn't
consider the Hanover, Bratislava & Osnabrück facilities as
'third party' vendors or sub-contractors, as was implied in
Whoopsy's statement.
I contacted Porsche officials after Whoopsy made his grandiose
statements on April 23rd on this forum. They refused to engage
simply because the claim he made of third party PTS was deemed
so wrong it didn't merit a response. Yet here at Rennlist, because
Whoopsy owns a 918 & attends all sorts of 918 events sponsored
by PAG, many assumed he must be 'totally in the know'. Well, that
was not the case this time around. Instead, we all got 'schooled',
or at least taken on a dubious ride, not just 'Mr. PTS'.
You, the reader, must decide what to believe you read on Rennlist
about PTS & consider carefully the sources where that information
is coming from. Also if the person relaying the 'information' has
the experience necessary to understand the larger picture behind
statements bandied about at a PAG event. So caveat emptor.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
*Petrol engines are all assembled in Stuttgart. Hybrid/diesel engines
may be put together elsewhere.
06-22-2016, 04:27 PM
#182
Reasons for the clarifications...and news about Melissa Witek!
clarify the various statements of Whoopsy is to correct
the record. We are fortunate here in Rennlist to have
many members that are intimately familiar with PTS &
how it works. I am one of the many that make contributions
on this subject matter at this forum. And I learn quite a
bit on the topic from them & their experiences with PTS
at Porsche. But I worry that creating false rumors based
on incomplete or misunderstood information gathered at
PAG events catering to 918 VIPs does not further shedding
light on this rather opaque subject matter. Nor does it help
the credibility & reputation of our forum as a 'quotable' source
of reliable information for the many readers that continue
to depend on it for making decisions on their custom orders
of Porsches!
***
I am also posting elsewhere the news that Melissa Witek,
Porsche Exclusive - Personal Design Manager at Porsche
Cars North America in Atlanta - is leaving her key position
with the company. She has accepted another job outside
of Porsche. She has been a great help to me & many other
customers, including quite a number of Rennlisters, in the
past. She will be dearly missed by those who knew her &
whom she assisted during her tenure at 'Porsche Exclusive'.
We wish her much success & happiness in her new employment
opportunity!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
06-22-2016, 04:54 PM
#185
Drifting
06-22-2016, 05:04 PM
#187
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wishing I Was At The Track
Posts: 13,519
Received 1,729 Likes
on
916 Posts
I am also posting elsewhere the news that Melissa Witek,
Porsche Exclusive - Personal Design Manager at Porsche
Cars North America in Atlanta - is leaving her key position
with the company. She has accepted another job outside
of Porsche. She has been a great help to me & many other
customers, including quite a number of Rennlisters, in the
past. She will be dearly missed by those who knew her &
whom she assisted during her tenure at 'Porsche Exclusive'.
We wish her much success & happiness in her new employment
opportunity!
Now you wished you'd worked with her, don't you??
06-22-2016, 05:18 PM
#189
Rennlist Member
In certain circle there is no credibility left for Rennlist.
It is known as the 'whine list'.
'Oh no, from THAT site again?'
Yup, it's how bad the reputation has become. The GT3RS, the R, and the constant PTS whine and countless other stuff. Members here might want to tone it down in order to be heard again.
Bottom line is, PTS is almost a black art. One can never find out the truth or get to the bottom of it, maybe they draw names from a hat, maybe they have a secret formula, or maybe it depends on who is doing the night shift.
Yes, some certain customers will have a better chance, but not all VIPs are equal, nor customers. We all know there is a certain individual here in the forum who is a 1st time buyer yet he can have one of the most specially painted GT3, well until Porsche decided to paint 10 more of the same colour.
Mixing paint is also an art form. Modern paint are water based and have a different mix than old paint, so some colours cannot come out the same, and hence rejection, but there are exceptions and those that come out exactly like the historic paint colours and will have the durability and opacity that Porsche required on different surfaces and those colour will get approved more easily.
And then there is the problem of communication, between the dealers and PCNA and then PCNA to Stuttgart. Not just on PTS, but all forms of customizations or even regular production options. Porsche is not communicating well 'vertically' and hence the confusion and contradicting answers customers get when they talk to different level of management. Hell, the website car configurator has less options than the one the dealer uses in their dealership and those in turn have less options than the computers in Stuttgart. Some dealers will say they will try but they won't, they want to avoid the headaches of asking for something, they would rather just sell run of the mill cars.
When I config a Targa last week in Stuttgart, I had way more choices, and those aren't even CXX stuff yet. The R was the same thing, but mostly it's more CXX options.
Having wrote all that, Eduardo here did a great job trying to solve the unsolvable puzzle, great applause for his efforts.
06-23-2016, 07:02 AM
#191
AutoX
Hi guys,
I haven't posted before but thanks for the wealth of info, particularly in relation to the mysteries of PTS. Seems to be broadly similar here in Australia, but for what it's worth I thought I'd outline my experience.
We (my father and I) are lucky enough to have secured a 911R allocation. Fortunately the 918 was never offered for sale here, so the process is a little more democratic. Australia received 25 cars in total, with our dealer (Brisbane Porsche) receiving 3.
As soon as we heard whispers of the R, we put a deposit down and were first on the list. Once the 911R was confirmed, we had a car. We are good customers of the dealer, having previously purchased a Cayman GT4, Macan Turbo and 997 GT3 RS, but to be honest this probably had little bearing on our allocation. Original build was car #80 (July) in GT Silver, no stripes (went for the sleeper look).
Anyway, 2 weeks ago we received a call from our salesman who had received an email from Porsche Australia at 5pm on Friday afternoon advising that they had 3 PTS cars available for Australia of the 25. First in best dressed. Our sales guy called us immediately, and we said yes, Fashion Grey, lock it in. Heard nothing until today, when we got a call advising that Fashion Grey PTS has been confirmed for September build, which is great news! Only downside is the later build, but that also opens up the availability of the SMFW, which is an added bonus I think.
Not sure if this provides any further illumination to the PTS discussion, but 3 cars for Australia would seem to correlate with the suggestions of around 50 worldwide. Whether or not the same process is followed in other countries remains to be seen I guess.
I should also mention I tired for PTS (mint green) on the GT4, and was told my production slot wasn't within the "PTS window". Went for Carmine red in the end.
Hopefully that helps. I'll keep you guys posted with some pics and further info once we get the car.
Cheers,
Sam
I haven't posted before but thanks for the wealth of info, particularly in relation to the mysteries of PTS. Seems to be broadly similar here in Australia, but for what it's worth I thought I'd outline my experience.
We (my father and I) are lucky enough to have secured a 911R allocation. Fortunately the 918 was never offered for sale here, so the process is a little more democratic. Australia received 25 cars in total, with our dealer (Brisbane Porsche) receiving 3.
As soon as we heard whispers of the R, we put a deposit down and were first on the list. Once the 911R was confirmed, we had a car. We are good customers of the dealer, having previously purchased a Cayman GT4, Macan Turbo and 997 GT3 RS, but to be honest this probably had little bearing on our allocation. Original build was car #80 (July) in GT Silver, no stripes (went for the sleeper look).
Anyway, 2 weeks ago we received a call from our salesman who had received an email from Porsche Australia at 5pm on Friday afternoon advising that they had 3 PTS cars available for Australia of the 25. First in best dressed. Our sales guy called us immediately, and we said yes, Fashion Grey, lock it in. Heard nothing until today, when we got a call advising that Fashion Grey PTS has been confirmed for September build, which is great news! Only downside is the later build, but that also opens up the availability of the SMFW, which is an added bonus I think.
Not sure if this provides any further illumination to the PTS discussion, but 3 cars for Australia would seem to correlate with the suggestions of around 50 worldwide. Whether or not the same process is followed in other countries remains to be seen I guess.
I should also mention I tired for PTS (mint green) on the GT4, and was told my production slot wasn't within the "PTS window". Went for Carmine red in the end.
Hopefully that helps. I'll keep you guys posted with some pics and further info once we get the car.
Cheers,
Sam
06-23-2016, 09:13 AM
#192
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wishing I Was At The Track
Posts: 13,519
Received 1,729 Likes
on
916 Posts
Hi guys,
I haven't posted before but thanks for the wealth of info, particularly in relation to the mysteries of PTS. Seems to be broadly similar here in Australia, but for what it's worth I thought I'd outline my experience.
We (my father and I) are lucky enough to have secured a 911R allocation. Fortunately the 918 was never offered for sale here, so the process is a little more democratic. Australia received 25 cars in total, with our dealer (Brisbane Porsche) receiving 3.
As soon as we heard whispers of the R, we put a deposit down and were first on the list. Once the 911R was confirmed, we had a car. We are good customers of the dealer, having previously purchased a Cayman GT4, Macan Turbo and 997 GT3 RS, but to be honest this probably had little bearing on our allocation. Original build was car #80 (July) in GT Silver, no stripes (went for the sleeper look).
Anyway, 2 weeks ago we received a call from our salesman who had received an email from Porsche Australia at 5pm on Friday afternoon advising that they had 3 PTS cars available for Australia of the 25. First in best dressed. Our sales guy called us immediately, and we said yes, Fashion Grey, lock it in. Heard nothing until today, when we got a call advising that Fashion Grey PTS has been confirmed for September build, which is great news! Only downside is the later build, but that also opens up the availability of the SMFW, which is an added bonus I think.
Not sure if this provides any further illumination to the PTS discussion, but 3 cars for Australia would seem to correlate with the suggestions of around 50 worldwide. Whether or not the same process is followed in other countries remains to be seen I guess.
I should also mention I tired for PTS (mint green) on the GT4, and was told my production slot wasn't within the "PTS window". Went for Carmine red in the end.
Hopefully that helps. I'll keep you guys posted with some pics and further info once we get the car.
Cheers,
Sam
I haven't posted before but thanks for the wealth of info, particularly in relation to the mysteries of PTS. Seems to be broadly similar here in Australia, but for what it's worth I thought I'd outline my experience.
We (my father and I) are lucky enough to have secured a 911R allocation. Fortunately the 918 was never offered for sale here, so the process is a little more democratic. Australia received 25 cars in total, with our dealer (Brisbane Porsche) receiving 3.
As soon as we heard whispers of the R, we put a deposit down and were first on the list. Once the 911R was confirmed, we had a car. We are good customers of the dealer, having previously purchased a Cayman GT4, Macan Turbo and 997 GT3 RS, but to be honest this probably had little bearing on our allocation. Original build was car #80 (July) in GT Silver, no stripes (went for the sleeper look).
Anyway, 2 weeks ago we received a call from our salesman who had received an email from Porsche Australia at 5pm on Friday afternoon advising that they had 3 PTS cars available for Australia of the 25. First in best dressed. Our sales guy called us immediately, and we said yes, Fashion Grey, lock it in. Heard nothing until today, when we got a call advising that Fashion Grey PTS has been confirmed for September build, which is great news! Only downside is the later build, but that also opens up the availability of the SMFW, which is an added bonus I think.
Not sure if this provides any further illumination to the PTS discussion, but 3 cars for Australia would seem to correlate with the suggestions of around 50 worldwide. Whether or not the same process is followed in other countries remains to be seen I guess.
I should also mention I tired for PTS (mint green) on the GT4, and was told my production slot wasn't within the "PTS window". Went for Carmine red in the end.
Hopefully that helps. I'll keep you guys posted with some pics and further info once we get the car.
Cheers,
Sam
06-23-2016, 10:05 AM
#193
Rennlist Member
Hi guys,
I haven't posted before but thanks for the wealth of info, particularly in relation to the mysteries of PTS. Seems to be broadly similar here in Australia, but for what it's worth I thought I'd outline my experience.
We (my father and I) are lucky enough to have secured a 911R allocation. Fortunately the 918 was never offered for sale here, so the process is a little more democratic. Australia received 25 cars in total, with our dealer (Brisbane Porsche) receiving 3.
As soon as we heard whispers of the R, we put a deposit down and were first on the list. Once the 911R was confirmed, we had a car. We are good customers of the dealer, having previously purchased a Cayman GT4, Macan Turbo and 997 GT3 RS, but to be honest this probably had little bearing on our allocation. Original build was car #80 (July) in GT Silver, no stripes (went for the sleeper look).
Anyway, 2 weeks ago we received a call from our salesman who had received an email from Porsche Australia at 5pm on Friday afternoon advising that they had 3 PTS cars available for Australia of the 25. First in best dressed. Our sales guy called us immediately, and we said yes, Fashion Grey, lock it in. Heard nothing until today, when we got a call advising that Fashion Grey PTS has been confirmed for September build, which is great news! Only downside is the later build, but that also opens up the availability of the SMFW, which is an added bonus I think.
Not sure if this provides any further illumination to the PTS discussion, but 3 cars for Australia would seem to correlate with the suggestions of around 50 worldwide. Whether or not the same process is followed in other countries remains to be seen I guess.
I should also mention I tired for PTS (mint green) on the GT4, and was told my production slot wasn't within the "PTS window". Went for Carmine red in the end.
Hopefully that helps. I'll keep you guys posted with some pics and further info once we get the car.
Cheers,
Sam
I haven't posted before but thanks for the wealth of info, particularly in relation to the mysteries of PTS. Seems to be broadly similar here in Australia, but for what it's worth I thought I'd outline my experience.
We (my father and I) are lucky enough to have secured a 911R allocation. Fortunately the 918 was never offered for sale here, so the process is a little more democratic. Australia received 25 cars in total, with our dealer (Brisbane Porsche) receiving 3.
As soon as we heard whispers of the R, we put a deposit down and were first on the list. Once the 911R was confirmed, we had a car. We are good customers of the dealer, having previously purchased a Cayman GT4, Macan Turbo and 997 GT3 RS, but to be honest this probably had little bearing on our allocation. Original build was car #80 (July) in GT Silver, no stripes (went for the sleeper look).
Anyway, 2 weeks ago we received a call from our salesman who had received an email from Porsche Australia at 5pm on Friday afternoon advising that they had 3 PTS cars available for Australia of the 25. First in best dressed. Our sales guy called us immediately, and we said yes, Fashion Grey, lock it in. Heard nothing until today, when we got a call advising that Fashion Grey PTS has been confirmed for September build, which is great news! Only downside is the later build, but that also opens up the availability of the SMFW, which is an added bonus I think.
Not sure if this provides any further illumination to the PTS discussion, but 3 cars for Australia would seem to correlate with the suggestions of around 50 worldwide. Whether or not the same process is followed in other countries remains to be seen I guess.
I should also mention I tired for PTS (mint green) on the GT4, and was told my production slot wasn't within the "PTS window". Went for Carmine red in the end.
Hopefully that helps. I'll keep you guys posted with some pics and further info once we get the car.
Cheers,
Sam
congrats, is it true new car tariffs are painfully high there?
06-23-2016, 10:07 AM
#194
Rennlist Member
ok, so the bottom line her is nothing has changed, Cayennes and Panameras bodies painted at their originating factory prior to arriving to Leipzig, 911s painted at Zuffefnahusen
06-23-2016, 12:20 PM
#195
***
***
Do we really know what 'process' was used by PCNA in the United States
for selecting who would get PTS on their (already chosen) 911R allocations?
Do we even know how many PTS 911R were allocated to the US?
We initially heard how the process was done in Canada. And now Australia.
But I don't think we know how it was done in other markets.
Anyone?
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale