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I stopped by Stuttgart before i head to Le Mans over the weekend.
Anyway, when I stopped by Stuttgart to config my R, I had new information about PTS.
Originally Posted by Whoopsy
I still think the R is parts bin special. There is nothing special about it. The only thing special is that it is a beta car for Porsche to test out parts.
The manual does nothing for me, it's just another chore that stands in the way of driving and enjoying a car. Porsche might as well put back in carburetors for the engine if they keep doing manual, the dinosaurs that likes manual would LOVE tuning carburetors.
Just curious, what was their response when you told them what you really thought of the R?
Great info. Thanks whoopsy--I appreciate you taking the time to follow up with that question during what must have been a busy trip. I wonder why the difference between the two sites for PTS, though. Anyway, nice to know all the 911s are painted in house including the PTS.
And if you have any photos from your time there, please feel free to post them
Yup.. As crazy as it seems, AP can't have is own R.. He's sad as much a few times.. Just gets to drive the special cars. Maybe when he retires this will be his "golden watch"
I stopped by Stuttgart before i head to Le Mans over the weekend.
Boy it was crazy times at Porsche hospitality.
Anyway, when I stopped by Stuttgart to config my R, I had new information about PTS.
It was seems I was told an incomplete statement at Leipzig about PTS and I wasn't aware enough to dig deeper, unlike someone else here who had more of an interest in PTS and would know to ask more.
The PTS question was brought up again in Stuttgart, and the detail was that PTS is done in house in Stuttgart, while PTS is done by a 3rd party in Leipzig. So the Panamera and Cayennes gets the 3rd party treatment only.
And yes, the stripes on the R can be of any colour from the 3M range, be it matted or glossy, and the stripes, the graphics on the side and the script can be colour customized and mixing matted and glossy.
I was told 'all cars are painted by 3rd party' in Leipzig, which is correct in the person's point of view as all cars from 'Leipzig' which is that factory. But not 'all cars' as in all Porsche cars.
Oh an one last thing, that BRG car is a 000. Think all you want but it basically is a PTS 'trial' car.
I don't think AP needs to worry about a farewell gold watch.
Well, he did very plainly state in the EVO interview (?) that his only regret in life is not having a job where he could earn enough money to purchase a 911R.. So in some way he seems to be concerned
It was seems I was told an incomplete statement at Leipzig
about PTS and I wasn't aware enough to dig deeper, unlike
someone else here who had more of an interest in PTS and
would know to ask more.
That 'someone else' Whoopsy is referring to is me. And there
is a lesson to be learned here at Rennlist about this whole incident.
You can either take 'incomplete' information & run with it. Or you
can be more careful & measured when you post here about PTS.
And please double-check with reliable sources at PAG & PCNA
before posting definitive-sounding statements that could turn
out to be false or misleading. It's up to all of you to decide which
method gives you the most accurate information & serves best
the interest of our forum. The credibility of Rennlist as at risk.
This forum counts on you getting it right & not propagating
false rumors!
*****
Here is the history of this 'incident' for those interested in the
particulars. It all started on this thread back in late April:
Originally Posted by unotaz
True PTS cars are painted in a 3rd party facility.
Originally Posted by Z356
Say what?
Who told you that?
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
Originally Posted by Z356
I don't know if you have been following PTS at Porsche closely, but
that particular option has been quite limited for a while now, especially
on the gt3, gt3 RS, gt4 & 981 Spyder.
The 911R will be built in Zuffenhausen & they have the ability to do
PTS on all of these cars right there. Their paint facilities are 'State of
the Art'. It's just a question of logistics re: the strict procedures PAG
follows to allow PTS for their cars & the coordination of the painted
parts (exterior & interior) which come from sub-contractors & outside
vendors. PTS is not a high priority at PAG for the production engineers.
And until it becomes so, these bottlenecks will continue to exist & PTS
will remain 'difficult' to get in certain high-demand models.
But I am curious. What third party painter do you think they would
be sent to? Earl Scheib GmbH in nearby Fellbach?
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
Originally Posted by Whoopsy
Sorry Eduardo,
Unotaz is correct.
True PTS are sent off to a 3rd party for all models be
it a Stuttgart production car or Leipzig production car.
That's why the limited capacity. It also takes time to
validate and inspect the finish to pass Porsche's own
standard.
The so called 'fake' PTS like the black, orange and
yellow on the R are painted in house, that part is
correct.
Originally Posted by WSH
Looks like Mr. PTS just got schooled
Originally Posted by Z356
No problem. We are here to learn from each other.
I must tell all of you that this is the first time ever
that I hear that Porsche sends all PTS cars to a third
party for paint. If true, I am really & truly surprised.
As Reagan said, 'trust but verify'. I'll report back when
I get this confirmed as 'fact'.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
Originally Posted by Whoopsy
Don't say that.
Before we always assume PTS cars are all painted
at Porsche's state of the art paint shop that they
'say' can paint any colour.
But now it turns out isn't the case, true PTS cars'
body and panels are send out to third party and
basically hand painted one by one.
I was quite shocked to hear that Friday at the
Leipzig plant.
Originally Posted by unotaz
+1
Eduardo's expertise and contribution on PTS and
exclusive options have been outstanding! I think
I lost count how many times I had used his posts
to spec out my cars!
****
Which leads up to Whoopsy's so-called update yesterday:
Originally Posted by Whoopsy
Anyway, when I stopped by Stuttgart to config my R,
I had new information about PTS. It was seems I was
told an incomplete statement at Leipzig about PTS and
I wasn't aware enough to dig deeper, unlike someone
else here who had more of an interest in PTS and would
know to ask more.
The PTS question was brought up again in Stuttgart, and
the detail was that PTS is done in house in Stuttgart, while
PTS is done by a 3rd party in Leipzig. So the Panamera
and Cayennes gets the 3rd party treatment only.
I was told 'all cars are painted by 3rd party' in Leipzig,
which is correct in the person's point of view as all cars
from 'Leipzig' which is that factory. But not 'all cars' as
in all Porsche cars.
So here is the bottom line. Whoopsy's statement which
he posted on 4/23/2016 which said 'Sorry Eduardo...
True PTS are sent off to a 3rd party for all models be it
a Stuttgart production car or Leipzig production car'
was admittedly false.
And to prevent further confusion (which his original posting
has created ever since!), I feel the need to point out that
the statements made yesterday about 3rd party PTS at Leipzig,
if left unchallenged, will lead to more confusion on the topic,
not less! Let me explain:
I believe that one of Whoopsy's statement yesterday is also
incorrect & misleading. He states that "PTS is done by a 3rd
party in Leipzig. So the Panamera and Cayennes gets the 3rd
party treatment only. I was told 'all cars are painted by
3rd party' in Leipzig, which is correct in the person's point
of view as all cars from 'Leipzig' which is that factory."
This is not so. All Panameras have been welded together
& painted at a VW plant in Hanover since day one for that
model. So all Panameras are painted at Hanover, whether
it's standard color offerings or PTS. To say PTS is done by
a third party is misleading. Similarly, all Cayennes are welded,
painted & partially assembled in Bratislavia, Slovakia at another
VW Group plant. That has been the case since day one of that
model. So any Cayenne that is painted standard colors & those
rare PTS examples are done in Bratislava. The Macan is welded,
painted & assembled almost 100% at Leipzig*. I believe that
PTS Macans are done at Leipzig's state-of-the-art paint facility
& not by a 3rd party. And until they move all 718 Cayman
production to Stuttgart from the VW Group Karmann plant at
Osnabrück (expected in the future), the 981-era Caymans &
even some 981 Boxsters were welded, painted & assembled
at that facility. And that includes Cayman PTS. So to say that
this makes PTS a third party proposition Leipzig's Panamera,
Cayenne or Macan is either false or misleading. PAG doesn't
consider the Hanover, Bratislava & Osnabrück facilities as
'third party' vendors or sub-contractors, as was implied in
Whoopsy's statement.
I contacted Porsche officials after Whoopsy made his grandiose
statements on April 23rd on this forum. They refused to engage
simply because the claim he made of third party PTS was deemed
so wrong it didn't merit a response. Yet here at Rennlist, because
Whoopsy owns a 918 & attends all sorts of 918 events sponsored
by PAG, many assumed he must be 'totally in the know'. Well, that
was not the case this time around. Instead, we all got 'schooled',
or at least taken on a dubious ride, not just 'Mr. PTS'.
You, the reader, must decide what to believe you read on Rennlist
about PTS & consider carefully the sources where that information
is coming from. Also if the person relaying the 'information' has
the experience necessary to understand the larger picture behind
statements bandied about at a PAG event. So caveat emptor.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
*Petrol engines are all assembled in Stuttgart. Hybrid/diesel engines
may be put together elsewhere.
Thank you Eduardo. As expected, you are for certain the most knowledgeable and no doubt spend the time to research and confirm your posts regarding PTS. I appreciate you clarifying the statement , it was a bit confusing.
Well, he did very plainly state in the EVO interview (?) that his only regret in life is not having a job where he could earn enough money to purchase a 911R.. So in some way he seems to be concerned
Come on Alex, from one Italian to another, do you really believe that?
Thank you Eduardo for the clarification. Without a doubt when it comes to Paint-To-Sample (PTS), you are the Subject-Matter-Expert (SME) to be consulted when the need arises.
06-21-2016, 04:30 PM
