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** The "market adjustment" issue **

 
Old 09-08-2015, 11:53 PM
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STG
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Default ** The "market adjustment" issue **

Who is to blame??

The market will dictate what a buyer is willing to pay. Not sure why the dealers are always the punching bags?

This "market adjustment" is Porsche's problem, not the dealers. Porsche is intentionally using these GT cars as pawns and rewards gifted to dealers for taking/selling cars that aren't the easiest to move.

They limit the numbers to make these attractive to buyers, feed the hype, and have dealers even further at their mercy.

Look at some of the inventory just sitting on dealers lots. You think it's there by their choice?

Should dealers sell at MSRP only to have flippers and some guys on this forum try and profit instead? They'd be insane to do that.

The problem isn't as obvious as it seems or is it?

Curious on others opinions regarding this issue.
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Old 09-08-2015, 11:59 PM
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short term market adjustment is the customer's problem because they will be the ones hurting their own pocketbooks.
long term market adjustment is porsche's problem. They will lose customers and long time supporters because of these stupid games that they have been playing with limiting allocations.
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:02 AM
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My opinion is that a dealer has every right to ask more than MSRP for a car; let the marketplace determine whether his pricing is justified. As someone who owns one of those cars, it's actually to my advantage to see prices inflated. As a practical matter, though, I won't pay over MSRP so I'll either look for another dealer or go without. The dealer is entitled get his mark up if he can, just not from me.
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:07 AM
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LOL....its not Porsche's fault, the dealers or the consumers. It is simple supply and demand. GT cars represent a tiny percentage of their sales and profit. Why would they change that. From a business perspective it would be just plain dumb. The dealers are in business to make money. If they can sell a product at a higher cost due to demand, then they should since that is what any business would do. Besides I thought the bubble already burst😉
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:15 AM
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Default ** The "market adjustment" issue **

As long as we still hear the "stealership" rants, the bubble is still alive and well.

The latest and greatest being the RS obviously and the next GT car down the pipeline.

Last edited by STG; 09-09-2015 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by STG991 View Post
This "market adjustment" is Porsche's problem
That's funny. The "problem" is with the folks that have more money than brains and have to have the first out. If people didn't pay over MSRP then people wouldn't be market adjusting. As long as you have people that are willing to burn money so their ego can be stroked because they have the first one at the track or at Cars and Coffee then supply and demand will rule and who cares who sells for over MSRP and takes their money. Good on the dealers, good on the flippers and good on any one else lucky enough to get one and sell it. The problem is hardly Porsche's fault.
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by STG991 View Post
Who is to blame??

The market will dictate what a buyer is willing to pay. Not sure why the dealers are always the punching bags?

This "market adjustment" is Porsche's problem, not the dealers. Porsche is intentionally using these GT cars as pawns and rewards gifted to dealers for taking/selling cars that aren't the easiest to move.

They limit the numbers to make these attractive to buyers, feed the hype, and have dealers even further at their mercy.

Look at some of the inventory just sitting on dealers lots. You think it's there by their choice?

Should dealers sell at MSRP only to have flippers and some guys on this forum try and profit instead? They'd be insane to do that.

The problem isn't as obvious as it seems or is it?

Curious on others opinions regarding this issue.
There is no one to blame; the market sets the price, and no individual participants have the ability to move prices to any appreciable extent.

The MSRP is not necessarily reflective of the intrinsic value of a car's worth; "suggested" is a component of the phrase, of course.

The reason we (and sometimes I, admittedly) blame dealers is simple: They are easy to identify. Say you're watching a car online at a dealer and they're asking $50K over on the hot, new car (GT4, GT3 RS, whatever). It sells quickly for a price that is unknown, but probably quite close to the asking price. It's easy to resent Porsche of Wherever for charging "too much" for a car, especially when you can't direct your ire to the anonymous "sucker" who paid more than you were willing or able to.

A lot of the ire probably also stems from the way that the dealers portray and present themselves; I find both dealers in Atlanta unimpressive and unseemly, but then on the other hand I made sizable, non-trivial "profits" on my 993 and 997.1 GT3, but I felt very little compunction about that...
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike in CA View Post
My opinion is that a dealer has every right to ask more than MSRP for a car; let the marketplace determine whether his pricing is justified. As someone who owns one of those cars, it's actually to my advantage to see prices inflated. As a practical matter, though, I won't pay over MSRP so I'll either look for another dealer or go without. The dealer is entitled get his mark up if he can, just not from me.
Well, there is a different perspective to this. Porsche has a brand and a strategy for that brand. If the plan is to leave some money on the table by having MSRP lower than market can bear, there is a good reason for that. If dealers screw up this plan by doing "market adjustments", they are ultimately hurting Porsche's brand (by preventing the company from executing on its strategy) and screwing themselves in the log run as a result - if the brand disappears, they will be happy selling cars just above invoice, if selling anything at all. There can be many reasons why a company needs to "leave money on the table" with halo cars or enthusiast cars. With a well-run brand company, the best distributor strategy for long-term success is do exactly whatever the mothership says and do not try to be "smarter".

But I do not see a point of being "angry" with dealers. Just stick with the better ones and let Porsche and natural selection deal with the deviant ones.
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:29 AM
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As for the argument that the unscrupulous "stealers" will get their eventual comeuppance ... When was the last time a Porsche dealer went out of business?
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:40 AM
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we live in a capitalist world, and PAG is a very successful capitalist enterprise...
that plus foibles of human nature and lack of judgment when buying luxury items in a time of easy money...
...no one is to blame...just the world we live in
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:04 AM
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Default ** The "market adjustment" issue **

Should Porsche always make less cars than demand, or sell as many as there are buyers for?

What would be the best strategy?

It seems like the ones who aren't happy with market adjustments would be just as upset with the GT cars not being as exclusive either. Can you win?
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:07 AM
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My issue isn't that dealers sell their cars for over MSRP as it is them taking allocations for themselves and optioning the car when they have dozens of people on the wait list, including people who have bought 10s of cars from that dealer. Either sell all of the cars to the highest bidders or sell to the folks on your waitlist, don't keep changing the rules of the game. Hell, there are even dealers that have agreed to sell a car at MSRP to a customer on their waitlist and when the car comes in the car is no longer for sale at MSRP...it's no MSRP + X market premium. Don't say that you want to establish a relationship with a customer when the dollar signs mean more than the relationship.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:07 AM
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The PATIENT Porsche buyers never pay markup. Simple as that. No matter GT3 or RS.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by STG991 View Post
Should Porsche always make less cars than demand, or sell as many as there are buyers for?

What would be the best strategy?

It seems like the ones who aren't happy with market adjustments would be just as upset with the GT cars not being as exclusive either. Can you win?
Building less cars than the demand is fine, but some transparency on the allocation process along with an estimate of the units they plan on building would be nice too.
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Old 09-09-2015, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by MaxLTV View Post
Well, there is a different perspective to this. Porsche has a brand and a strategy for that brand. If the plan is to leave some money on the table by having MSRP lower than market can bear, there is a good reason for that. If dealers screw up this plan by doing "market adjustments", they are ultimately hurting Porsche's brand (by preventing the company from executing on its strategy) and screwing themselves in the log run as a result - if the brand disappears, they will be happy selling cars just above invoice, if selling anything at all. There can be many reasons why a company needs to "leave money on the table" with halo cars or enthusiast cars. With a well-run brand company, the best distributor strategy for long-term success is do exactly whatever the mothership says and do not try to be "smarter".

But I do not see a point of being "angry" with dealers. Just stick with the better ones and let Porsche and natural selection deal with the deviant ones.
Valid points. Of course Porsche is being paid their invoice price by PCNA (in the US at least) so they're getting every penny of profit they expect from every transaction, the result being that, IIRC, they still have the highest per unit profit of any builder of "mass produced" cars.

The MSRP is just what it says, a suggested retail price so obviously wiggle room is allowed the dealer. I suspect that the "mother ship" in this case keeps a pretty close eye on total sales and is willing to allow some leeway on highly desirable models especially since the whole thing seems to be working for everyone. To your point, if something changed and they saw a threat to their overall strategy, they would reign things in.
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