Embargo on 991.2 Carrera (S) Breaks - What does it mean for 991.2 GT3? Think turbos..
09-08-2015, 12:38 AM
#46
Instructor
It's all too easy for Porsche given what they've already developed - take the 4.0 TT out of the new TT and TTS. Drop the detuned TT unit in the current GT3 setup and call it a GT2, drop the TTS version in the current GT3 RS setup and call it a GT2 RS.
Minimal R&D and development costs and big performance gain, less warranty liability and risk given the R&D budget and time that goes into making the TT.
Minimal R&D and development costs and big performance gain, less warranty liability and risk given the R&D budget and time that goes into making the TT.
I buy the arguments... but what you describe makes more sense to me for the 992 generation. Swan song for the GT3 with a 991.2 refresh and hopefully 4.0 engine. I guess we'll see.
09-08-2015, 12:41 AM
#47
Drifting
Thread Starter
CF frunk cover = $15K
Mg roof = Lots, don't know the price offhand
Even if they fit the 4.0 liter engine and give it those lightweight parts a 991.2 Carrera GTS on the same tires will lap just as quickly around any North American track. And do it for a lot less money...
09-08-2015, 01:11 AM
#48
So it's a given there won't be a GT2 *and* a GT3? As you mentioned with the minimal R&D/development, why not release a GT2/GT2RS and just refresh the GT3/GT3RS?
I buy the arguments... but what you describe makes more sense to me for the 992 generation. Swan song for the GT3 with a 991.2 refresh and hopefully 4.0 engine. I guess we'll see.
I buy the arguments... but what you describe makes more sense to me for the 992 generation. Swan song for the GT3 with a 991.2 refresh and hopefully 4.0 engine. I guess we'll see.
09-08-2015, 01:13 AM
#49
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But all of this supports my previous contention that the 991 GT3 is so good a performer more because it's a 991 than because it's a GT3.
09-08-2015, 01:47 AM
#50
Drifting
Thread Starter
Bingo, throw the 4.0RS engine in the .2GT3 along with the minor faced body and bang boom done. Then squeeze out another 20hp out of the 4.0L engine for the .2RS. Increase the MSRP by 10-20% for both and you got yourself money makers. Then add a .2GT2 or .2GTRS (limited production) and there's your GT2. I also think that the 992 GT cars will be turbo'ed or hybrid.
Trying to get a 991.2 Carrera S as close as possible to my GT3, I get a price delta of about $15K, with the GT3 still having some extras like alcantara, presumably more linear throttle response, PASM calibrated for the track, likely higher ESC threshold, and different PDK programming. And assuming it doesn't burn up, I bet the GT3 will be more durable on track, not to mention more enjoyable (and better looking).
But all of this supports my previous contention that the 991 GT3 is so good a performer more because it's a 991 than because it's a GT3.
But all of this supports my previous contention that the 991 GT3 is so good a performer more because it's a 991 than because it's a GT3.
The 4.0 liter engine's crank is made using the same material featured in the 919 race car; it is proprietary and was specifically developed for the 919. Not cheap.
The CF frunk cover is $15K. Not cheap.
The Mg roof is expensive as well; I recall Preuninger saying it was more expensive than a CF roof, but lighter because it's thinner than CF would have been. I think we can agree that it's ... not cheap.
IF Porsche adds all of those items - none of which will make the car more "durable" on the track versus a base 991.1 GT3 - into the 991.2 GT3, then the car will have to be much more expensive than the outgoing GT3.
As for "squeezing out" an additional 20 hp for the 991.2 RS; why not add power much more cheaply by ... using a turbocharged engine ... rather than developing a mature technology that has essentially zero future application.
09-08-2015, 02:26 AM
#51
I'll say it again: If the 991.2 GT3 receives all/most of the performance enhancing items from the 991.1 GT3 RS, it will need to cost ... about what the RS costs (before markup and market adjustment of course).
The 4.0 liter engine's crank is made using the same material featured in the 919 race car; it is proprietary and was specifically developed for the 919. Not cheap.
The CF frunk cover is $15K. Not cheap.
The Mg roof is expensive as well; I recall Preuninger saying it was more expensive than a CF roof, but lighter because it's thinner than CF would have been. I think we can agree that it's ... not cheap.
IF Porsche adds all of those items - none of which will make the car more "durable" on the track versus a base 991.1 GT3 - into the 991.2 GT3, then the car will have to be much more expensive than the outgoing GT3.
As for "squeezing out" an additional 20 hp for the 991.2 RS; why not add power much more cheaply by ... using a turbocharged engine ... rather than developing a mature technology that has essentially zero future application.
The 4.0 liter engine's crank is made using the same material featured in the 919 race car; it is proprietary and was specifically developed for the 919. Not cheap.
The CF frunk cover is $15K. Not cheap.
The Mg roof is expensive as well; I recall Preuninger saying it was more expensive than a CF roof, but lighter because it's thinner than CF would have been. I think we can agree that it's ... not cheap.
IF Porsche adds all of those items - none of which will make the car more "durable" on the track versus a base 991.1 GT3 - into the 991.2 GT3, then the car will have to be much more expensive than the outgoing GT3.
As for "squeezing out" an additional 20 hp for the 991.2 RS; why not add power much more cheaply by ... using a turbocharged engine ... rather than developing a mature technology that has essentially zero future application.
09-08-2015, 02:48 AM
#52
GT3 player par excellence
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u know
ferrari
bmw
mbz
the BIG names are all going turbo.
even big motor vette are turbo
why should porsche not ?
and how would NA possibly keep up with turbo hp.
(dont get me wrong, i am a NA person)
maybe hybrid like 918? i dont know
ferrari
bmw
mbz
the BIG names are all going turbo.
even big motor vette are turbo
why should porsche not ?
and how would NA possibly keep up with turbo hp.
(dont get me wrong, i am a NA person)
maybe hybrid like 918? i dont know
09-08-2015, 03:54 AM
#53
09-08-2015, 10:12 AM
#54
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To be Turbo or not to be Turbo...
09-08-2015, 10:37 AM
#55
As far as weight is concerned, i think that's it for the 991 chassis, taking into account cost aswell.. (Making the 991 lighter would increase cost..).
Only thing i see is more power.. But will this engine handle it given the problems porsche has encountered with it?
Better traction and more aero? What, a bigger wing, 345 section tires
?
Porsche always surprises us, but this time i think they're gonna aim for power given the limitations... I say turbo!
Only thing i see is more power.. But will this engine handle it given the problems porsche has encountered with it?
Better traction and more aero? What, a bigger wing, 345 section tires
?Porsche always surprises us, but this time i think they're gonna aim for power given the limitations... I say turbo!
09-08-2015, 11:39 AM
#59
RL Community Team
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