More conjecture on 2015 991 GT3 Allocations, or lack thereof
08-25-2014, 10:30 PM
#31
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They lost a bundle on the engine replacements, so why wouldn't they now produce these cars in bulk to increase their overall net profit and rate of return on the 991 GT3? What am I missing?
08-25-2014, 11:26 PM
#32
My guess is they think the market for GT3's is small compared to the other variants they sell.
08-26-2014, 02:47 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Interesting comment. When you have the option between manual and dual clutch it's a tough decision to make. It's even tougher to determine whether you're happy with your decision because you're predisposed to lying to yourself to believe you made the right decision.
I bought a DCT M3 and thought for a while that I loved the transmission. The lightning fast shifts and perfect rev matching are quite addicting. However after the honeymoon period, I started to realized that I felt kind of ridiculous manually shifting my automagic car. At this point, I don't even bother anymore because it's just a mental game to make me feel like I'm involved.
It took a while, but I think I've come to the decision that I'm happier with a manual and the struggle to master the perfect heel toe. I also don't mind the inconvenience of a manual in stop and go traffic as much as I thought I did. In fact, I've realized that I never thought of a manual as a potential inconvenience until the option of a dual clutch transmission became available.
How does this ramble relate to the 991 GT3? Well, I'm watching closely to hear people's comments about the pdk-s. So far it's seemingly positive, but I wonder if those comments are the result of the "honeymoon period" that I experienced with my M3. I wonder if in time so many people will remain happy with the PDK. The outcome is interesting to me because I Find myself back on the fence trying to decide again whether I want to go forth with my 991 GT3 purchase or sit back and enjoy my manual and see what happens with the GT4.
So many proponents of the 991 GT3 talk about faster tech and keeping up with the competitors, but we lose sight that much of the original appeal of the GT3 line was that purity and challenge of the car. It never was the fastest nor the easiest to drive, but damn when you got it right it was so much more rewarding than those faster easier to drive cars. I wonder if future generations of GT3 owners will ever experience such reward.
I bought a DCT M3 and thought for a while that I loved the transmission. The lightning fast shifts and perfect rev matching are quite addicting. However after the honeymoon period, I started to realized that I felt kind of ridiculous manually shifting my automagic car. At this point, I don't even bother anymore because it's just a mental game to make me feel like I'm involved.
It took a while, but I think I've come to the decision that I'm happier with a manual and the struggle to master the perfect heel toe. I also don't mind the inconvenience of a manual in stop and go traffic as much as I thought I did. In fact, I've realized that I never thought of a manual as a potential inconvenience until the option of a dual clutch transmission became available.
How does this ramble relate to the 991 GT3? Well, I'm watching closely to hear people's comments about the pdk-s. So far it's seemingly positive, but I wonder if those comments are the result of the "honeymoon period" that I experienced with my M3. I wonder if in time so many people will remain happy with the PDK. The outcome is interesting to me because I Find myself back on the fence trying to decide again whether I want to go forth with my 991 GT3 purchase or sit back and enjoy my manual and see what happens with the GT4.
So many proponents of the 991 GT3 talk about faster tech and keeping up with the competitors, but we lose sight that much of the original appeal of the GT3 line was that purity and challenge of the car. It never was the fastest nor the easiest to drive, but damn when you got it right it was so much more rewarding than those faster easier to drive cars. I wonder if future generations of GT3 owners will ever experience such reward.
08-26-2014, 03:03 PM
#34
Nordschleife Master
Interesting comment. When you have the option between manual and dual clutch it's a tough decision to make. It's even tougher to determine whether you're happy with your decision because you're predisposed to lying to yourself to believe you made the right decision. I bought a DCT M3 and thought for a while that I loved the transmission. The lightning fast shifts and perfect rev matching are quite addicting. However after the honeymoon period, I started to realized that I felt kind of ridiculous manually shifting my automagic car. At this point, I don't even bother anymore because it's just a mental game to make me feel like I'm involved. It took a while, but I think I've come to the decision that I'm happier with a manual and the struggle to master the perfect heel toe. I also don't mind the inconvenience of a manual in stop and go traffic as much as I thought I did. In fact, I've realized that I never thought of a manual as a potential inconvenience until the option of a dual clutch transmission became available. How does this ramble relate to the 991 GT3? Well, I'm watching closely to hear people's comments about the pdk-s. So far it's seemingly positive, but I wonder if those comments are the result of the "honeymoon period" that I experienced with my M3. I wonder if in time so many people will remain happy with the PDK. The outcome is interesting to me because I Find myself back on the fence trying to decide again whether I want to go forth with my 991 GT3 purchase or sit back and enjoy my manual and see what happens with the GT4. So many proponents of the 991 GT3 talk about faster tech and keeping up with the competitors, but we lose sight that much of the original appeal of the GT3 line was that purity and challenge of the car. It never was the fastest nor the easiest to drive, but damn when you got it right it was so much more rewarding than those faster easier to drive cars. I wonder if future generations of GT3 owners will ever experience such reward.
+1000
Excellent post!
Mooty is getting soft.
08-26-2014, 04:00 PM
#35
Race Director
Interesting comment. When you have the option between manual and dual clutch it's a tough decision to make. It's even tougher to determine whether you're happy with your decision because you're predisposed to lying to yourself to believe you made the right decision.
I bought a DCT M3 and thought for a while that I loved the transmission. The lightning fast shifts and perfect rev matching are quite addicting. However after the honeymoon period, I started to realized that I felt kind of ridiculous manually shifting my automagic car. At this point, I don't even bother anymore because it's just a mental game to make me feel like I'm involved.
It took a while, but I think I've come to the decision that I'm happier with a manual and the struggle to master the perfect heel toe. I also don't mind the inconvenience of a manual in stop and go traffic as much as I thought I did. In fact, I've realized that I never thought of a manual as a potential inconvenience until the option of a dual clutch transmission became available.
How does this ramble relate to the 991 GT3? Well, I'm watching closely to hear people's comments about the pdk-s. So far it's seemingly positive, but I wonder if those comments are the result of the "honeymoon period" that I experienced with my M3. I wonder if in time so many people will remain happy with the PDK. The outcome is interesting to me because I Find myself back on the fence trying to decide again whether I want to go forth with my 991 GT3 purchase or sit back and enjoy my manual and see what happens with the GT4.
So many proponents of the 991 GT3 talk about faster tech and keeping up with the competitors, but we lose sight that much of the original appeal of the GT3 line was that purity and challenge of the car. It never was the fastest nor the easiest to drive, but damn when you got it right it was so much more rewarding than those faster easier to drive cars. I wonder if future generations of GT3 owners will ever experience such reward.
I bought a DCT M3 and thought for a while that I loved the transmission. The lightning fast shifts and perfect rev matching are quite addicting. However after the honeymoon period, I started to realized that I felt kind of ridiculous manually shifting my automagic car. At this point, I don't even bother anymore because it's just a mental game to make me feel like I'm involved.
It took a while, but I think I've come to the decision that I'm happier with a manual and the struggle to master the perfect heel toe. I also don't mind the inconvenience of a manual in stop and go traffic as much as I thought I did. In fact, I've realized that I never thought of a manual as a potential inconvenience until the option of a dual clutch transmission became available.
How does this ramble relate to the 991 GT3? Well, I'm watching closely to hear people's comments about the pdk-s. So far it's seemingly positive, but I wonder if those comments are the result of the "honeymoon period" that I experienced with my M3. I wonder if in time so many people will remain happy with the PDK. The outcome is interesting to me because I Find myself back on the fence trying to decide again whether I want to go forth with my 991 GT3 purchase or sit back and enjoy my manual and see what happens with the GT4.
So many proponents of the 991 GT3 talk about faster tech and keeping up with the competitors, but we lose sight that much of the original appeal of the GT3 line was that purity and challenge of the car. It never was the fastest nor the easiest to drive, but damn when you got it right it was so much more rewarding than those faster easier to drive cars. I wonder if future generations of GT3 owners will ever experience such reward.
The proof, I think, is that person after person who has now driven it is now beginning to understand that the whole of this car is much, much more than the sum of it's parts. It's also why some people who were initially very skeptical or even hostile to the new concepts being presented are now coming around. Anyone who drives the 991 GT3 at anything even approaching any of it's limits and comes away thinking it's not involving or rewarding to drive is just very, very hard to please.
08-26-2014, 05:04 PM
#36
If I hadn't driven a SMG regular PDK, DCT and the new manuals I might have a similar opinion. Yes conformational bias and rationalization could easily be at work. But now having a lot of experience with the different kinds of dual clutch boxes out there I really have to concur, the whole is greater than the sum. Literally for me it comes down to feel which is inherently fraught with subjectivity. Yes I am still in my Honeymoon period but compared to the other gear boxes I think this one truly sets itself apart. If I find myself wishing to row my own as they say, I think I will more than likely head very retro and look to the RS America or the 996 GT3 as again the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. As such my feel for the previous generation of GT3s is a bit of a bastard child not quite embracing the modern era and yet not beholden to the old school either.
08-26-2014, 05:32 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Ranger22. Astute points - very well made and nicely balanced. Mikes second paragraph also has a well crafted counter point and Race7117 sums it all up in a finale I believe.
Ive owned my 991 GT3 longer than anyone active on this board. Ive driven it across the wide plethora of applications for which it was designed and put on some reasonable mileage.
I come from the aircooled camp. I tried a 996.1 GT3 back in 2002 straight out of a 993RS. I felt at that time the GT3 was a watered down experience compared to the 993RS and sold up and went back to the air cooled camp (993RS spec) for the next decade. Each iteration of the GT3 I have driven over the last 10 years kept feeling more clinical, faster but with less character and feel tahn my 993 and with more tech, weight and intervention (PSAM, active engine mounts etc).
Up until my recent track outing with the GT3 I felt the GT3 only really shined as a drivers car when you were "on it". Ill qualify by saying I always intended to keep my manual 993 to enjoy the best of both worlds. Im also in my mid 40s now and to be honest age has changed my perspective somewhat on what my "ultimate" all round sports car should be. The GT3 is relatively docile in full auto mode at DD speeds and application....and guess what...I quite like that. When on an open road or preferrably a back road the manual option livens things up and makes me feel like Im involved in the process again. The track was the icing on the cake and really demonstrated the cars greatness over previous generations (I use my 993 regularly on the track). Infact I see the GT3 taking over as my track rat.
All the points made above have their own validity. I think you have to live with the 991 GT3 for a while to understand its merits and if it fits into your lifestyle. For me it is increasingly proving to be the car I take for most journeys as it can be an event when I want it to or I can put on some tunes and daydream in traffic and around town when I do not.The 993 is more organic and requires more form the driver yes, but it can become tiring quicker and does not reward without intense concentration. They are very different cars no doubt but if I took sentiment out of teh equation, given my lifestyle and the time in my life right now if I were forced to take just one I would opt for the 991 GT3. i never thought I would say that! Its just so different from what has gone before I no longer compare it to my 993RS as I did the prior GT3s and I think thats what makes it exciting for me...
Ive owned my 991 GT3 longer than anyone active on this board. Ive driven it across the wide plethora of applications for which it was designed and put on some reasonable mileage.
I come from the aircooled camp. I tried a 996.1 GT3 back in 2002 straight out of a 993RS. I felt at that time the GT3 was a watered down experience compared to the 993RS and sold up and went back to the air cooled camp (993RS spec) for the next decade. Each iteration of the GT3 I have driven over the last 10 years kept feeling more clinical, faster but with less character and feel tahn my 993 and with more tech, weight and intervention (PSAM, active engine mounts etc).
Up until my recent track outing with the GT3 I felt the GT3 only really shined as a drivers car when you were "on it". Ill qualify by saying I always intended to keep my manual 993 to enjoy the best of both worlds. Im also in my mid 40s now and to be honest age has changed my perspective somewhat on what my "ultimate" all round sports car should be. The GT3 is relatively docile in full auto mode at DD speeds and application....and guess what...I quite like that. When on an open road or preferrably a back road the manual option livens things up and makes me feel like Im involved in the process again. The track was the icing on the cake and really demonstrated the cars greatness over previous generations (I use my 993 regularly on the track). Infact I see the GT3 taking over as my track rat.
All the points made above have their own validity. I think you have to live with the 991 GT3 for a while to understand its merits and if it fits into your lifestyle. For me it is increasingly proving to be the car I take for most journeys as it can be an event when I want it to or I can put on some tunes and daydream in traffic and around town when I do not.The 993 is more organic and requires more form the driver yes, but it can become tiring quicker and does not reward without intense concentration. They are very different cars no doubt but if I took sentiment out of teh equation, given my lifestyle and the time in my life right now if I were forced to take just one I would opt for the 991 GT3. i never thought I would say that! Its just so different from what has gone before I no longer compare it to my 993RS as I did the prior GT3s and I think thats what makes it exciting for me...
08-26-2014, 06:15 PM
#38
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
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Interesting comment. When you have the option between manual and dual clutch it's a tough decision to make. It's even tougher to determine whether you're happy with your decision because you're predisposed to lying to yourself to believe you made the right decision.
I bought a DCT M3 and thought for a while that I loved the transmission. The lightning fast shifts and perfect rev matching are quite addicting. However after the honeymoon period, I started to realized that I felt kind of ridiculous manually shifting my automagic car. At this point, I don't even bother anymore because it's just a mental game to make me feel like I'm involved.
It took a while, but I think I've come to the decision that I'm happier with a manual and the struggle to master the perfect heel toe. I also don't mind the inconvenience of a manual in stop and go traffic as much as I thought I did. In fact, I've realized that I never thought of a manual as a potential inconvenience until the option of a dual clutch transmission became available.
How does this ramble relate to the 991 GT3? Well, I'm watching closely to hear people's comments about the pdk-s. So far it's seemingly positive, but I wonder if those comments are the result of the "honeymoon period" that I experienced with my M3. I wonder if in time so many people will remain happy with the PDK. The outcome is interesting to me because I Find myself back on the fence trying to decide again whether I want to go forth with my 991 GT3 purchase or sit back and enjoy my manual and see what happens with the GT4.
So many proponents of the 991 GT3 talk about faster tech and keeping up with the competitors, but we lose sight that much of the original appeal of the GT3 line was that purity and challenge of the car. It never was the fastest nor the easiest to drive, but damn when you got it right it was so much more rewarding than those faster easier to drive cars. I wonder if future generations of GT3 owners will ever experience such reward.
I bought a DCT M3 and thought for a while that I loved the transmission. The lightning fast shifts and perfect rev matching are quite addicting. However after the honeymoon period, I started to realized that I felt kind of ridiculous manually shifting my automagic car. At this point, I don't even bother anymore because it's just a mental game to make me feel like I'm involved.
It took a while, but I think I've come to the decision that I'm happier with a manual and the struggle to master the perfect heel toe. I also don't mind the inconvenience of a manual in stop and go traffic as much as I thought I did. In fact, I've realized that I never thought of a manual as a potential inconvenience until the option of a dual clutch transmission became available.
How does this ramble relate to the 991 GT3? Well, I'm watching closely to hear people's comments about the pdk-s. So far it's seemingly positive, but I wonder if those comments are the result of the "honeymoon period" that I experienced with my M3. I wonder if in time so many people will remain happy with the PDK. The outcome is interesting to me because I Find myself back on the fence trying to decide again whether I want to go forth with my 991 GT3 purchase or sit back and enjoy my manual and see what happens with the GT4.
So many proponents of the 991 GT3 talk about faster tech and keeping up with the competitors, but we lose sight that much of the original appeal of the GT3 line was that purity and challenge of the car. It never was the fastest nor the easiest to drive, but damn when you got it right it was so much more rewarding than those faster easier to drive cars. I wonder if future generations of GT3 owners will ever experience such reward.
08-26-2014, 06:33 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
I'm with you, and the PDK has perhaps been my biggest mental obstacle as far as getting this car, but based on the reviews, etc., I've gotten to the point where I'm willing to give the car a try. And on the track, PDK does have the upside of being safer as far as preventing money shifts or spinning the car due to missed shift.
08-26-2014, 07:17 PM
#41
Nordschleife Master
We've driven 991GT3 owners pretty crazy with our manual tranny desperate crying. I'm kind of getting a little dizzy when I see another PDK vs Manual comment,I can only imagine what the adopters are feeling...
Although,I have to admit every once in a while I see a really good comment(like Ranger22's) and I succumb to my own dizziness.
Not to get much off topic and keep the humor rolling,we should start our own Forum and group called : The Manual tranny action group. See if we can set up a meeting with PCNA and present our " request ". Who's in?
No,I'm not serious...
Although,I have to admit every once in a while I see a really good comment(like Ranger22's) and I succumb to my own dizziness.
Not to get much off topic and keep the humor rolling,we should start our own Forum and group called : The Manual tranny action group. See if we can set up a meeting with PCNA and present our " request ". Who's in?
No,I'm not serious...
08-26-2014, 07:26 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
You know. What you say sounds silly but we achieved alot with the GT3 action group for ROW and also USA. In this world you have to stand up and be counted or shut up and drive. If the 991 GT3 had have come in manual it would have made me happy too. You live in the greatest nation on earth with the most "pulling power" I live on a coral atoll in the south pacific with a population of 240,000 and not a single 911. If myself and Sunil (UK) and organise the troops via viber and email to make a 150+ strong vanguard on the GT3 Action group then you and all the 997.1/2 GT3 guys could surely orchestrate a global campaign to convince PAG that the GT3 should have a manual option. Im not kiddling. Theres those that just like to say things and those that actually do things. You have to decide which one you are. If you chose to lobby PAG globally for reinstatement of manual transmission I know I and many others would help you.....
08-26-2014, 07:31 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
Im sorry. Dont mean to sound hard and negative but I hear so much "I wish" around here bit so little actual action sometimes it makes me a bit grumpy. Buy the 991 GT3, dont buy the new GT3 quite honestly I dont care, its a chunk of metal and means little in the scheme of things but if you feel strongly about something like this then maybe its time to take action. For me I have my beloved 993 to give me everything and more than the 997 GT3 owners have. Maybe thats the answer. Buy aircooled before the prices get any higher (have you seen whats happening out there? a mate in the UKs '73 911S just sold for $200K USD recently!!!) or lobby PAG to bring back stick. Youd get at least 1000 people sign a petition across these boards, probably far more - who knows if it would make a difference but better to try and fail than not try at all....
08-26-2014, 07:37 PM
#45
Nordschleife Master
Macca,I hope you understood the humoristic intent of my post and in no way shape or form it was meant to discredit the excellent achievements of the Action Group.
Regarding your point,I can't argue that it wouldn't be interesting yet pretty extraordinary. Would it bring enough interest? I have no idea.
Regarding your point,I can't argue that it wouldn't be interesting yet pretty extraordinary. Would it bring enough interest? I have no idea.