anyone experience front end lightness
08-15-2014, 08:28 PM
#31
I asked because 997.2 RS front end felt considerably more nailed down than 997.1 RS due to geometry changes facilitated by DEM. I would expect 991 to be even more nailed down so if you're feeling lightness first thing I'd do is have alignment checked by a race shop (not on a machine).
08-15-2014, 10:52 PM
#33
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I tried living with it for a week or two and couldn't take it. Took it to the race shop that maintains my Cup and had them do a string alignment and the car was transformed.
I've been told by multiple race shop owners that old school string alignment (or whatever you want to call it) is the only way to properly alignment a car. Note as well that a proper alignment includes corner balancing.
08-16-2014, 08:39 AM
#34
I can't tell you why; beyond my skill set. What I can tell you is that I had my RS aligned by local dealer with thier brand new laser alignment machine and when I got it back all confidence in the front end was gone. The head tech did the alignment and he has extensive track experience so I'm confident the issue wasn't with him.
I tried living with it for a week or two and couldn't take it. Took it to the race shop that maintains my Cup and had them do a string alignment and the car was transformed.
I've been told by multiple race shop owners that old school string alignment (or whatever you want to call it) is the only way to properly alignment a car. Note as well that a proper alignment includes corner balancing.
I tried living with it for a week or two and couldn't take it. Took it to the race shop that maintains my Cup and had them do a string alignment and the car was transformed.
I've been told by multiple race shop owners that old school string alignment (or whatever you want to call it) is the only way to properly alignment a car. Note as well that a proper alignment includes corner balancing.
08-16-2014, 04:53 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Alignment that is performed by laser machine in theory should always be more accurate than the old school with strings and dial gauges. However there are too many variables with the laser set up that contributes to inconsistent results.
For a starter most these laser machines require good training of how to use them and trouble shoot them properly, unfortunately since they appear too easy to use, most of the time are being operated by inexperienced people with minimum wage. On the other hand the old method often required a relatively an experienced individual to perform them who was not given 15 minutes to complete the alignment. The fact that these super hit tech laser alignment machine can perform an alignment in 10-15 min, invites people to be sloppy, and relying too much on the machine to tell them they did great job. Most of the operators of these new machines never performed a real old school alignment before and this is like a computer game to them. I had once performed 3 different alignments in one week, including one that is performed at Porsche dealership and all three gave me three different readings and all spit out a report showing the desire reading and to 3 digit accuracy, but the car drove so bad after each alignment so finally ended up going to an old friend who has been doing them manually for over 30 years but recently invested in a laser machine, and he showed me that my toe angles were off the charts although all 3 previous alignment were all showing close to 0 deg. He indicated the machine has a self aligning feature but most of the time it never is accurate and he always checks the calibration manually to Make sure the machine is calibrated. The alignment itself took about 10 minutes but his initial checks and post alignment checks turned this task close to 45 minutes and the car was perfect when I drove it after. So it is possible to get a spot on alignment using laser machines but it is never about the machine but rather the individuals operating these machines and whether they have alignment experience, good equipment training, and if they are allowed to invest adequate time to make sure the work is performed accurately. Mark
08-16-2014, 05:03 PM
#36
Race Director
Hi Sam
Alignment that is performed by laser machine in theory should always be more accurate than the old school with strings and dial gauges. However there are too many variables with the laser set up that contributes to inconsistent results.
For a starter most these laser machines require good training of how to use them and trouble shoot them properly, unfortunately since they appear too easy to use, most of the time are being operated by inexperienced people with minimum wage. On the other hand the old method often required a relatively an experienced individual to perform them who was not given 15 minutes to complete the alignment. The fact that these super hit tech laser alignment machine can perform an alignment in 10-15 min, invites people to be sloppy, and relying too much on the machine to tell them they did great job. Most of the operators of these new machines never performed a real old school alignment before and this is like a computer game to them. I had once performed 3 different alignments in one week, including one that is performed at Porsche dealership and all three gave me three different readings and all spit out a report showing the desire reading and to 3 digit accuracy, but the car drove so bad after each alignment so finally ended up going to an old friend who has been doing them manually for over 30 years but recently invested in a laser machine, and he showed me that my toe angles were off the charts although all 3 previous alignment were all showing close to 0 deg. He indicated the machine has a self aligning feature but most of the time it never is accurate and he always checks the calibration manually to Make sure the machine is calibrated. The alignment itself took about 10 minutes but his initial checks and post alignment checks turned this task close to 45 minutes and the car was perfect when I drove it after. So it is possible to get a spot on alignment using laser machines but it is never about the machine but rather the individuals operating these machines and whether they have alignment experience and if they are allowed to invest the time to make sure the work is performed accurately. Mark
Last edited by Mike in CA; 08-16-2014 at 05:36 PM. Reason: typo
08-16-2014, 05:35 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Indeed Mike. The machine is always blamed but the machine is supposed to be only a tool to make people efficient. Most shop owners feel since they invested too much money buying this great tool, they can save money on the wages and that they don't need an experienced mechanics to perform this task. You can go to Sears now, and a part-time high school kid will align your Porsche for you and give you a glorious report, which is why people swear by the old method. Mark
08-16-2014, 06:03 PM
#39
Rennlist Member