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Old 02-23-2014, 11:32 AM
  #16  
SamFromTX
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Originally Posted by ChrisF View Post
Wouldn't the write-off be much higher? I'm thinking R&D, tooling up the line and the 785+ cars built and worst of all - negative publicity. Thinking a bit more than $140M. Can't possibly think Porsche could even consider this option. Cost to redesign the entire power train, mfg it, replace it and subsidize existing owners has to be MUCH cheaper.
I agree with you. I think the worse case scenario would be replacing the entire engine rather than canceling the whole line, but to allow proper R&D, our cars would be grounded for, um, ever...
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Old 02-23-2014, 11:51 AM
  #17  
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WHOA. Did I miss the memo on "THE design flaw"

That is hugely presumptuous. Absent a design flaw nothing of the sort will happen. The suspect parts or assembly process will be improved and we all go about our merry way.

In any event, PAG is about as stubborn as companies come. You think they'd fold the GT3 program over this issue, when they have beaten their collective heads against a rock for 50 years engineering a flawed platform into the worlds best all around sports car? The 911 represents a colossal engineering triumph over a design failure.

No way would they let this be the end of the GT3.

[insert hitler video here]

Last edited by frayed; 02-23-2014 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:25 PM
  #18  
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The chance of Porsche killing the GT3 are nil. They will find the fault and correct.

Where did the 5 car fires come from? They could have had failures within the crankcase or engine that did not result in a fire. For all we know many more cars could have been affected.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:37 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by ChrisF View Post
Wouldn't the write-off be much higher? I'm thinking R&D, tooling up the line and the 785+ cars built and worst of all - negative publicity. Thinking a bit more than $140M. Can't possibly think Porsche could even consider this option. Cost to redesign the entire power train, mfg it, replace it and subsidize existing owners has to be MUCH cheaper.
You are right Chris. I missed the RD part which is not cheap.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:55 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by MaxLTV View Post
I wish I did not read this. Now I'll spend the night evaluating the options if this car goes away (MP4-12C? 997.2 GT3? spec miata and a trailer? Modded Cayman R? Atom? I almost had to go in therapy I had to make the decision last time). First world problems, I know.
All viable options, except for the miata
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Old 02-23-2014, 02:02 PM
  #21  
Mike in CA
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Originally Posted by frayed View Post
WHOA. Did I miss the memo on "THE design flaw"

That is hugely presumptuous. Absent a [i]design[/] flaw nothing of the sort will happen. The suspect parts or assembly process will be improved and we all go about our merry way.

In any event, PAG is about as stubborn as companies come. You think they'd fold the GT3 program over this issue, when they have beaten their collective heads against a rock for 50 years engineering a flawed platform into the worlds best all around sports car? The 911 represents a colossal engineering triumph over a design failure.

No way would they let this be the end of the GT3.

[insert hitler video here]
Thankfully, just to confirm that we haven't all become marginalized conspiracy/tin-hat/flat-world theorists, every so often someone posts something reasonable.
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Old 02-23-2014, 08:46 PM
  #22  
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This whole thread is hilarious to say the least!

Porsche is been making the 911 for 50 years. Even though technology has been advancing over the years and more complicated computer controlled systems have been added,the rear engine set up remained the same. Porsche is not some new company like Tesla,that's decided to make their own car and engine.
How can you even fathom the idea that they could've messed up the design so bad to the point of shutting the program down?! It's ridiculous!
Porsche,like every car company out there,have been making mistakes over the years,like IMS,Coolant pipes,CLs etc,but the important thing is to have learned from those mistakes and make a better product.
Whatever the cause of what's happening right now may be,it will be discovered and dealt with one way or another,there is 0% chance IMO for anything else to happen.
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:29 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by neanicu View Post
This whole thread is hilarious to say the least!

Porsche is been making the 911 for 50 years. Even though technology has been advancing over the years and more complicated computer controlled systems have been added,the rear engine set up remained the same. Porsche is not some new company like Tesla,that's decided to make their own car and engine.
How can you even fathom the idea that they could've messed up the design so bad to the point of shutting the program down?! It's ridiculous!
Porsche,like every car company out there,have been making mistakes over the years,like IMS,Coolant pipes,CLs etc,but the important thing is to have learned from those mistakes and make a better product.
Whatever the cause of what's happening right now may be,it will be discovered and dealt with one way or another,there is 0% chance IMO for anything else to happen.
OK, if you say so. Wait and see I guess. I say anything is possible. How long has it been that they found out about the fire's?
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Old 02-23-2014, 11:07 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by silverrules View Post
OK, if you say so. Wait and see I guess. I say anything is possible. How long has it been that they found out about the fire's?
Siverrules,I understand your concern and sympathize,but my point is,Porsche is still one of the best engineered cars in the World,besides their ups and downs throughout their 50 years of history and under any circumstance will they accept such a blow to their name,so I guess we can set that aside.
Coming back to the fires,I would only speculate,since no one knows the exact reason,but if it's true and the engine threw a rod thru the crankcase,it only makes sense that all that pressure from the engine spinning to splatter a large quantity of oil all over the hot exhaust manifolds,thus leading to fire.
I don't know about a design flaw,it could be as " simple " as a bad batch of bolts that secure the rods to the crankshaft,I don't know...total speculation on my part...
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Old 02-23-2014, 11:59 PM
  #25  
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pigs would have to fly before that ever happens...
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:46 AM
  #26  
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Porsche would turn the engines down to 8000rpm and introduce 20k rebuild maintenance schedules or retrofit mezgers before they buy them back and can the GT3/RS platform... Too much money invested to do an about face now...

We just have to hope the problem is identified and truly fixed unlike the CL solution with the 997.2 which was to deny, deny, deny and pass the buck to the owners to pay to maintain...
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Old 02-24-2014, 12:00 PM
  #27  
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It would seem to me that Porsche would inspect/test cars built the same day the two cars that burned. Since both cars were in Europe when they caught fire it should be an easy matter for Porsche to locate and inspect the others which probably are in Europe.
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:15 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by silverrules View Post
Is it possible that PAG is in a tough spot as they don't think they can fix the design flaw permanently and they don't want to be involved in litigation and decide to Issue refunds to current owners in exchange for the cars? Porsche then writes off $140M and ends the GT3 era.

Is it possible?
You can't possibly be serious...
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:34 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by 911rox View Post
Porsche would turn the engines down to 8000rpm and introduce 20k rebuild maintenance schedules or retrofit mezgers before they buy them back and can the GT3/RS platform... Too much money invested to do an about face now...

We just have to hope the problem is identified and truly fixed unlike the CL solution with the 997.2 which was to deny, deny, deny and pass the buck to the owners to pay to maintain...
I was thinking that.

- Take Back
- Install Mezger / Manual
- Profit


This is far too big of a liability for Porsche to sit on. Especially in sue happy america. I don't know what caused the Lambo's to flame but for the Ferrari it was bodywork I think, a WHOLE lot easier to remedy than an internal engine component.

That or they could fix the RS now while still in development, ditch the 9A1 and then take the GT3's back and give the current owners RS's for their trouble.
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:32 PM
  #30  
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BMW got over the E46 M3 engine failures, I am sure Porsche will also figure this out.

BTW how BMW handled the E46 M3 engine failures (probably an indication of Porsche will also handle it) -
Replace a connection rod bearing and give extended engine warranty. http://members.roadfly.com/jason/m3engines.htm. The sucky part is the early models took a beating in the resale value.

Of course some differences from the Porsche situation - way more cars were affected, but there were no fires.
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