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How reliable do you think PDK trannies will be?

 
Old 11-13-2013, 05:02 PM
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Macca
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Its true we dont know the long term reliability of PDK-S on the track. PCCBs were new back in 2002 but auto trannies have been in Porsches for two or more decades so the underlying core principles are when known and documented....
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:15 AM
  #17  
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I'm comforted by the fact that the PDK was designed originally for the 962 Race cars in the early 1980s as a racing transmission built for Endurance Racing 850 HP Turbocharged Torque monsters . So they have over 3 decades of experience in the development of dual clutch transmissions - far more than any other sports car competitor. PDK may be new for us...... but definitely not for the most senior Porsche Engineers.
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:35 AM
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I think the PDK itself is not a problem. Mechanically, it is probably perfect.

The electrics / sensors / control units I think are the weak point. Especially in hot environments...
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by FastLaneTurbo View Post
I'm comforted by the fact that the PDK was designed originally for the 962 Race cars in the early 1980s as a racing transmission built for Endurance Racing 850 HP Turbocharged Torque monsters . So they have over 3 decades of experience in the development of dual clutch transmissions - far more than any other sports car competitor. PDK may be new for us...... but definitely not for the most senior Porsche Engineers.
those engineers are gone. The Xbox generation is in!
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:25 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
those engineers are gone. The Xbox generation is in!
the old guys took car for the mechanical part, the xbox did the electronics. That was the part that failed in the 962 era, the idea was ahead of the technology.
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Old 11-15-2013, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by FastLaneTurbo View Post
I'm comforted by the fact that the PDK was designed originally for the 962 Race cars in the early 1980s as a racing transmission built for Endurance Racing 850 HP Turbocharged Torque monsters . So they have over 3 decades of experience in the development of dual clutch transmissions - far more than any other sports car competitor. PDK may be new for us...... but definitely not for the most senior Porsche Engineers.
Actually a bit older than that. First dual-clutch transmission was patented in 1939 by a Frenchman working for Citroen. There've been a lot of stops and starts with the technology in the interim, including the referenced Porsche racing experiment.

As for durability in latest GT3 application we're unlikely to know much for at least 12-18 months. That's about how long it took on average for issues like RMS, coolant fittings, intake manifolds, center-locks, clutch failures to filter back.
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Old 11-16-2013, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Nizer View Post
As for durability in latest GT3 application we're unlikely to know much for at least 12-18 months. That's about how long it took on average for issues like RMS, coolant fittings, intake manifolds, center-locks, clutch failures to filter back.
PDK has been available in the Carrera models since 2009 and in the TTS and Panamera Turbo, which have a lot more HP and torque than the 991 GT3, since 2010. There have been more than 12-18 months of history already with this gearbox, and I don't expect that PDK-(S) will be any less durable in the GT3 than it has been in those other cars.

Last edited by Mike in CA; 11-16-2013 at 02:54 AM.
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Old 11-16-2013, 02:04 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Mike in CA View Post
PDK has been available in the Carrera models since 2009 and in the TTS and Panamera Turbo, which have a lot more HP and torque than the 991 GT3, since 2010. There have been more than 12-18 months of history already with this gearbox, and I don't expect that PDK-(S) will be any less durable in the GT3 than it has been in those other cars.
Maybe, maybe not. Porsche has been building clutches for manual 911's for decades yet they proved a weak link in the 3.8 RS. Personally, I'll wait until a bunch of 991 GT3's pound out a couple hundred laps at Sebring before passing judgement.
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Old 11-17-2013, 09:58 PM
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probably won't see many doing laps there.
the true players won't convert and the newbies do laps of ocean blvd.
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by aussie jimmy View Post
probably won't see many doing laps there.
the true players won't convert and the newbies do laps of ocean blvd.
Too funny! Why on earth would you think the fastest GT3 to date, won't be on track?
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Nizer View Post
Maybe, maybe not. Porsche has been building clutches for manual 911's for decades yet they proved a weak link in the 3.8 RS. Personally, I'll wait until a bunch of 991 GT3's pound out a couple hundred laps at Sebring before passing judgement.
With such complex systems, changing something even a little bit can cause stuff to blow up in unexpected ways, so I understand where you are coming from. But the wet clutches in general are not big of a deal. I remember the paranoia on BMW forums when DCT first came out - people were afraid to track DCT cars or use launch control, and replacement costs of $15K+ were thrown around. Now there are cars with over 50K miles and close to 100-200 hard track days on original clutches, some supercharged to over 600HP. I'd be surprised for Porsche to be any worse. And clutch pack replacement can be done for $3500-3800 all-in at a dealer or for noticeably less at a friendly tuner shop - I don't know about Porsche (googling revealed just a bunch of hearsay), but would hope it's not much more expensive.
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:11 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by doubleurx View Post
Too funny! Why on earth would you think the fastest GT3 to date, won't be on track?
because the track era has mostly passed now.
there will always be a few, but i don't think we will again see the days of 20 - 30 gt3's turning up.
those days are gone.
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Old 11-18-2013, 05:37 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by FastLaneTurbo View Post
I'm comforted by the fact that the PDK was designed originally for the 962 Race cars in the early 1980s as a racing transmission built for Endurance Racing 850 HP Turbocharged Torque monsters . So they have over 3 decades of experience in the development of dual clutch transmissions - far more than any other sports car competitor. PDK may be new for us...... but definitely not for the most senior Porsche Engineers.
I agree..but there is one major huge difference, one was built to win races and to last 24h full throttle..at no cost to be spared..wining in racing can not be done with a fixed budget of 100k or whatever..if it costs more ..well then it will cost more. Either spend more on R&D etc..or loose on the track.

The other one is a road car, completely different world..and knowing Porsche a bit these days (where there are clearly fixed budgets)...we will see.

In fact, I would encourage all 991 GT3 owners.."please track your car as heavily as possible"..so that we can discuss the long term results here on RL. Lets se how things will have evolved in 5 years.

I remember the days when CLs were celebrated as the "innovation" etc...and now owners will have to cover the not sufficient R&D - testing of the time.

PS: I know that 458s dont like long term tracking (more than 1 hour) on their gearboxes..a quick lap yes....but more..rather no..
PS2: remember that PdK boxes cannot and will not be repaired by independet - or even Porsche dealers, they will be changed completely and are sent back to the factory.
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Old 05-23-2017, 01:45 AM
  #29  
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Default PDK was born in racing

PDK is not new guys. It was born in the 80s in motor racing! I have no idea how anyone is questioning the reliability of PDK under high performance stress conditions - all high performance cars by Porsche the GT3, GT3 RS, 911 Turbo S and really? The 918 Spyder, they all have the same technology behind them as any other "lower end" models. So before you question Porsche's reliability and about a technology standing the test of time, remember Porsche has always blazed the trail for sports cars. Heck they invented the concept itself or at the very least largely revolutionized it. Trust Porsche - because Porsche leads fearlessly with daring innovations and everyone follows suit but if you research closely the innovation is never an experiment - Porsche doesn't do experiments. Porsche wins. Bye.

Last edited by Rashid Amin; 05-23-2017 at 01:58 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 05-23-2017, 04:48 AM
  #30  
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This season (on track) I have seen 4 P cars with problems (1) 1 x engine - money shift (2) 2 x diffs (3) 1 x 3rd gear - all were manuals. I have seen one PDK with a problem - it was fixed by replacing a sensor (actually I think it was by cleaning a sensor).

Last edited by randr; 05-23-2017 at 06:59 AM.
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