Uncooked Truth: A Sad State of Manual Transmission Affairs
08-29-2013, 12:17 PM
#16
Nordschleife Master
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08-29-2013, 01:19 PM
#17
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in the latest issue of excellence, within the ruf boxster article, the writer spelt han's surname wrong, and it wasn't even caught at editing stage.
would never have happened under stout's watch.
would never have happened under stout's watch.
08-29-2013, 02:01 PM
#18
Sure. Spelling mistakes and typos are bad enough, but listing the MP4-12C as "one of the those cars with a manual" if your whole article is about just that is plain stupid.
08-29-2013, 03:32 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
If less than 1% of the car buyers want MT, a manufacturer should make it available as an option even though it would be expensive for the car company to do so? Of course they could make MT available at an additional cost but when they happens several in the 1% would opt not to pay so the cost gets even greater.
Finally, if less than 1% believe a MT is more fun for DD than PDK doesn't that speak volumes as to which is more fun? Or are we to have the tail wagging the dog?
Finally, if less than 1% believe a MT is more fun for DD than PDK doesn't that speak volumes as to which is more fun? Or are we to have the tail wagging the dog?
08-29-2013, 03:44 PM
#20
Race Director
What if people want to be able to manually set the advance on their valves? Or handcrank the engine on startup, or have any sort of archaic technology which "enhances" the experience. The manual, is done. Lets move forward, or just buy a used car which has the features you crave.
08-29-2013, 04:05 PM
#22
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Finally! Someone who reads between the lines and understands what we're all on about... And with all they've given up, to think Porsche have only matched the performance of the GTR... After 6 years and at 2.5 times the price, haha...
Surprised the manual bashers haven't started on it yet, lol...
Surprised the manual bashers haven't started on it yet, lol...
hahaha
A lot of it revolves around what Porsche is about today. Are they in it for the $$$,$$$ or do they want to produce great cars which win the hearts of people who love to drive (and have an understanding of what driving really is), maximizing the quality of the man-machine interface to support that? They could actually do both to a substantial extent, using vehicles like the Cayenne and Panamera for the former goal, and GT cars for the latter, but that doesn't seem to be the direction they're taking.
New Vette is fairly high tech, but you can turn off a lot of systems and get it with manual. At modest cost. That says a lot, IMO.
New Vette is fairly high tech, but you can turn off a lot of systems and get it with manual. At modest cost. That says a lot, IMO.
Don't mind Nick, he is confused.
08-29-2013, 04:15 PM
#23
Where did you get 1%? Of people who can't drive stick?
US/ Canada BMW M3 Production figures, 2007 through 2013:
E90 M3 3135 Manual / 2732 DCT
E92 M3 6235 Manual / 9564 DCT
E93 M3 1955 Manual / 2051 DCT
Total: 11325 Manual / 14347 DCT
So 44% of American buyers opted for the stick. Keep in mind that as a whole, 95% of cars sold in the US are automatics, and less than 50% of americans even know how to drive a stick with any proficiency. So the take rate for enthusiasts who bought this car and can drive stick was well over 50%.
1% take rate may well be true for a certain demographic. Pretty sure that's not a demographic I want to be in, however.
US/ Canada BMW M3 Production figures, 2007 through 2013:
E90 M3 3135 Manual / 2732 DCT
E92 M3 6235 Manual / 9564 DCT
E93 M3 1955 Manual / 2051 DCT
Total: 11325 Manual / 14347 DCT
So 44% of American buyers opted for the stick. Keep in mind that as a whole, 95% of cars sold in the US are automatics, and less than 50% of americans even know how to drive a stick with any proficiency. So the take rate for enthusiasts who bought this car and can drive stick was well over 50%.
1% take rate may well be true for a certain demographic. Pretty sure that's not a demographic I want to be in, however.
08-29-2013, 04:18 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Using Ferrari's experience they optioned the California for MT. I believe one person ordered it. Other car companies have had similar experiences. Each year the orders for MT are becoming less and less. If there is confusion it is with those like the author of the article who somehow equate fun driving with MT and despite very limited interest insist that MT should be made available.
08-29-2013, 04:21 PM
#25
08-29-2013, 04:35 PM
#26
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Porsche GT3 is no California!(or at least it didn't use to be)
Same goes for BMW.
As I said before,Porsche GT3 is a car in its own category and pretty much stands alone from the crowd. Make cab Carreras PDK only,Panameras and Cayennes and nobody will complain.
08-29-2013, 05:11 PM
#27
Race Director
Using Ferrari's experience they optioned the California for MT. I believe one person ordered it. Other car companies have had similar experiences. Each year the orders for MT are becoming less and less. If there is confusion it is with those like the author of the article who somehow equate fun driving with MT and despite very limited interest insist that MT should be made available.
The Cali was targeted at the blvd crusier crowd.
08-29-2013, 05:23 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
One of the reasons why I left Ferrari was because of the California. They diluted the brand by making it part of Ferrari family. That said, when the car was first introduced my dealer handed me the keys to one and said bring it back before the dealership closed. The car is much more than a blvd cruiser.
Apparently, Ferrari felt the same by offering the Cal in MT but not offering the 458 and the rest of the models with MT. BTW, I am not sure they do today.
Apparently, Ferrari felt the same by offering the Cal in MT but not offering the 458 and the rest of the models with MT. BTW, I am not sure they do today.
08-29-2013, 05:48 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
I can see a manual 458... Never even have it any thought but if they fix the 83 overheating problems is would be an awesome car. Just not very pretty to my eyes..
I love V8's though.
I love V8's though.
08-29-2013, 08:10 PM
#30
The Ferrari Cali drives similar to convertible Bentley's, Astons, Bmws, and Mercedes. Should never be compared with a GT3.
I've inquired about Manaul 458's and 599's several times, and there's been discussion on Fchat for several years. Unfortunately Ferrari wouldn't mass produce stick shifts, and the per vehicle special order charge is so astronomical - it's not worth it.
I've inquired about Manaul 458's and 599's several times, and there's been discussion on Fchat for several years. Unfortunately Ferrari wouldn't mass produce stick shifts, and the per vehicle special order charge is so astronomical - it's not worth it.