2013 GT3 Technical features video...
03-13-2013, 03:36 PM
#31
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new vid .... shows lots of shifting despite the terrible voiceover... now claims 0-100 is 3.5s (not 3.3)
chassis & engine
chassis & engine
Mike
03-13-2013, 04:55 PM
#33
That makes sense. Honestly, I'd love to see confirmation of that 8ms VW/DSG time. Why would AP make claims for the new Porsche PDK that he knows could be bested by the box used by the rest of the VW group in it's mainline cars? Besides, it seems completely unrealistic not just in comparison to the other automanual shift times shown above, but when evaluated against my own experience owning both a DSG Audi and a PDK Carrera S.
The PDK in the 997 Carrera can shift in 8ms in Sport Plus mode when the next gear is preselected and 200ms when the next gear is non-preselected. Hence the 100ms for the GT3's PDK is very impressive. To put in perspective, 100ms is the number which has been quoted (unofficial) for the BorgWarner/Aichi transmission in the Nissan GT-R when the next gear is preselected.
The GT3 PDK has, in addition to the shorter gear ratios, updated hydraulics and software. The shift times are supposedly close to 60% faster than the current PDK in the Carrera. This has been achieved by optimising the clutch-filling hydraulics and the overlapping opening/closing of the clutches. While I have not driven the new GT3 I think it will be nothing less than sensational in gear shifting.
To complete the picture, Audi has an in-house designed DSG called S-tronic which is used in the S and R (post facelift) cars and is almost identical to the current Porsche PDK. The main difference between all these DSG transmissions is the clutch pack and the software. The mainstream VW DSG uses two dry clutches, one for the odd gears and one for the even, while the S-tronic and PDK uses multiple wet clutches to handle the higher torque.
To everyone who keep bashing Porsche for having removed the link to racing with the new GT3, don't forget that the dual-clutch transmissions are derived from Porsche's in-house development for 962 racing cars.
03-13-2013, 05:13 PM
#34
Three Wheelin'
new vid .... shows lots of shifting despite the terrible voiceover... now claims 0-100 is 3.5s (not 3.3)
chassis & engine
chassis & engine
03-13-2013, 05:14 PM
#35
Race Director
The VW group's DSG is a mainstream product designed mainly for fuel efficiency, not performance. That said, the 8ms preselected shift time is the official number from VW for the Golf GTI. I have not seen a number for non-preselected gears, but from own experience it is far above 100ms (a noticeable delay like a conventional torque converter automatic transmission).
The PDK in the 997 Carrera can shift in 8ms in Sport Plus mode when the next gear is preselected and 200ms when the next gear is non-preselected. Hence the 100ms for the GT3's PDK is very impressive. To put in perspective, 100ms is the number which has been quoted (unofficial) for the BorgWarner/Aichi transmission in the Nissan GT-R when the next gear is preselected.
The GT3 PDK has, in addition to the shorter gear ratios, updated hydraulics and software. The shift times are supposedly close to 60% faster than the current PDK in the Carrera. This has been achieved by optimising the clutch-filling hydraulics and the overlapping opening/closing of the clutches. While I have not driven the new GT3 I think it will be nothing less than sensational in gear shifting.
To complete the picture, Audi has an in-house designed DSG called S-tronic which is used in the S and R (post facelift) cars and is almost identical to the current Porsche PDK. The main difference between all these DSG transmissions is the clutch pack and the software. The mainstream VW DSG uses two dry clutches, one for the odd gears and one for the even, while the S-tronic and PDK uses multiple wet clutches to handle the higher torque.
To everyone who keep bashing Porsche for having removed the link to racing with the new GT3, don't forget that the dual-clutch transmissions are derived from Porsche's in-house development for 962 racing cars.
The PDK in the 997 Carrera can shift in 8ms in Sport Plus mode when the next gear is preselected and 200ms when the next gear is non-preselected. Hence the 100ms for the GT3's PDK is very impressive. To put in perspective, 100ms is the number which has been quoted (unofficial) for the BorgWarner/Aichi transmission in the Nissan GT-R when the next gear is preselected.
The GT3 PDK has, in addition to the shorter gear ratios, updated hydraulics and software. The shift times are supposedly close to 60% faster than the current PDK in the Carrera. This has been achieved by optimising the clutch-filling hydraulics and the overlapping opening/closing of the clutches. While I have not driven the new GT3 I think it will be nothing less than sensational in gear shifting.
To complete the picture, Audi has an in-house designed DSG called S-tronic which is used in the S and R (post facelift) cars and is almost identical to the current Porsche PDK. The main difference between all these DSG transmissions is the clutch pack and the software. The mainstream VW DSG uses two dry clutches, one for the odd gears and one for the even, while the S-tronic and PDK uses multiple wet clutches to handle the higher torque.
To everyone who keep bashing Porsche for having removed the link to racing with the new GT3, don't forget that the dual-clutch transmissions are derived from Porsche's in-house development for 962 racing cars.
03-13-2013, 05:38 PM
#36
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We'll see!
Like many of you, I have mixed feelings about the new GT3. I am sure it will be quicker around the track and will move the outright performance) game on. If Porsche wants to be a leader in the performance car category, it needs a car like this. It has committed itself to a PDK-only path - vs. providing at least an option for a manual (like BMW does in its M cars).
The trouble is, most of us have GT3 and GT3 RSs because they are not only fast, but incredibly involving to drive. While I am sure a 9000 RPM shift in <100ms via an enhanced PDK will be fun - I am not sure it will match or exceed the experience of doing a manual shift at 8,400 RPMs in 750ms.
I don't want a naturally aspirated, lighter (and perhaps more involving) Nissan GTR-like experience. I want a Porsche 911 GT3 experience taken up to the next level with more power, more grip and more feel/involvement. What say you?
The trouble is, most of us have GT3 and GT3 RSs because they are not only fast, but incredibly involving to drive. While I am sure a 9000 RPM shift in <100ms via an enhanced PDK will be fun - I am not sure it will match or exceed the experience of doing a manual shift at 8,400 RPMs in 750ms.
I don't want a naturally aspirated, lighter (and perhaps more involving) Nissan GTR-like experience. I want a Porsche 911 GT3 experience taken up to the next level with more power, more grip and more feel/involvement. What say you?
03-13-2013, 05:45 PM
#37
I say time will tell. Until we have driven the car we don't know. Although I would be surprised, and equally disappointed, if the new car does not offer more in these categories than the outgoing model.
03-13-2013, 05:55 PM
#38
Nordschleife Master
I found that graph both exciting and concerning:
1) Torque. 440ftlbs? That's a LOT more than the old GT3's 317ftlb
2) Significant drop in power after 8250rpms and continues to drop until redline. One of the characteristics of a fun to drive engine is power that continues to build until redline. This is makes things more exciting as you are 'gunning' for the redline rather than waiting for the redline to come to you. I'm concerned that the significant power dip that occurs prior to redline won't make the 9k rpm redline quite as exciting as it sounds.... ?
1) Torque. 440ftlbs? That's a LOT more than the old GT3's 317ftlb
2) Significant drop in power after 8250rpms and continues to drop until redline. One of the characteristics of a fun to drive engine is power that continues to build until redline. This is makes things more exciting as you are 'gunning' for the redline rather than waiting for the redline to come to you. I'm concerned that the significant power dip that occurs prior to redline won't make the 9k rpm redline quite as exciting as it sounds.... ?
03-13-2013, 06:18 PM
#41
Only difference on the current GT3 is that it has less power and the dip starts earlier.
03-13-2013, 06:30 PM
#42
AP keeps saying the fastest shifting transmission , i dont get it.
Scud and Italia are in 50 to 60 ms
Maclaren is also in 50 ms
Aventador is 40 ms upshifts
Shift speed is shift speed whether its single or double clutch trans, curious to see what comes out when the technical materials are out with few test drives.
But this new car is very promising , from that video the shifts sound good. Maybe its engaging like the scud , every shift you feel a thud!
Scud and Italia are in 50 to 60 ms
Maclaren is also in 50 ms
Aventador is 40 ms upshifts
Shift speed is shift speed whether its single or double clutch trans, curious to see what comes out when the technical materials are out with few test drives.
But this new car is very promising , from that video the shifts sound good. Maybe its engaging like the scud , every shift you feel a thud!
03-13-2013, 07:10 PM
#43
Race Director
AP keeps saying the fastest shifting transmission , i dont get it.
Scud and Italia are in 50 to 60 ms
Maclaren is also in 50 ms
Aventador is 40 ms upshifts
Shift speed is shift speed whether its single or double clutch trans, curious to see what comes out when the technical materials are out with few test drives.
But this new car is very promising , from that video the shifts sound good. Maybe its engaging like the scud , every shift you feel a thud!
Scud and Italia are in 50 to 60 ms
Maclaren is also in 50 ms
Aventador is 40 ms upshifts
Shift speed is shift speed whether its single or double clutch trans, curious to see what comes out when the technical materials are out with few test drives.
But this new car is very promising , from that video the shifts sound good. Maybe its engaging like the scud , every shift you feel a thud!
03-13-2013, 11:11 PM
#44
Nordschleife Master
03-14-2013, 12:10 AM
#45
From post #33 above, there is a difference in speed in shifting when the next gear is pre-selected and when it is not. The new PDK can shift in 8ms when the next gear is preselected (as predicted by the computer) and 100ms when it is not. The times you quote are apparently pre-selected gearshift times.
Based on this article scud 60 ms is when its not pre selected.