Thinking of moving OUT of California
07-09-2019, 07:09 AM
#16
Pro
Hawaii is beautiful and one of the nicest places I have ever visited, until I went to Bali lol
In all seriousness Im not much of tropical fan for more than 2 weeks. I would def get Island fever.
Technically I am on an island right now....a HUGE continental island lol
In all seriousness Im not much of tropical fan for more than 2 weeks. I would def get Island fever.
Technically I am on an island right now....a HUGE continental island lol
07-09-2019, 07:52 AM
#17
I've lived in Hawaii (Aiea, Oahu) and in CA (Monterey twice and Alameda). Both are absolutely gorgeous areas. In Hawaii, public schools suck. Private schools are adequate. I didn't have school age kids when I lived in CA.
Politics, unbelievably high taxes and high cost of EVERYTHING is a deal breaker for me. Politicians destroyed those states.
I've lived and worked in 12 different states. If I had a choice, I'd live in PA. Low to moderate taxes, fantastic driving roads in rolling country side. Numerous tracks nearby. Plenty of car culture stuff to do. When you retire, Social security and 401(k) withdrawals are not taxed.
For what you would save in taxes by living there, you could take numerous vacations a year to CA or HI.
I live in NOLA now. Great food, culture, and people. Reasonable taxes. Cheap to live. A very nice track 6 miles from my work. But the roads suck (straight, flat and potholish) and it is hot AF here.
You asked.
Politics, unbelievably high taxes and high cost of EVERYTHING is a deal breaker for me. Politicians destroyed those states.
I've lived and worked in 12 different states. If I had a choice, I'd live in PA. Low to moderate taxes, fantastic driving roads in rolling country side. Numerous tracks nearby. Plenty of car culture stuff to do. When you retire, Social security and 401(k) withdrawals are not taxed.
For what you would save in taxes by living there, you could take numerous vacations a year to CA or HI.
I live in NOLA now. Great food, culture, and people. Reasonable taxes. Cheap to live. A very nice track 6 miles from my work. But the roads suck (straight, flat and potholish) and it is hot AF here.
You asked.
Last edited by Napoli; 07-09-2019 at 10:27 AM.
07-09-2019, 10:29 AM
#18
Race Director
My wife is from Hawaii and we’ve been there quite a few times. It always felt like a great place to vacation, but not somewhere i would want to live full time. Very beautiful of course, but it is an island. The time zone would be hard for our clients on the east coast.
07-09-2019, 01:46 PM
#19
Own a place in MAUI and go several times a year, leaving Sat actually for 2+weeks. I really really like it and my wife LOVES it, however I’ve already told her when we retire I’m not going for more that 4-6 weeks at a time 1-2 times per year. Island fever is real for anyone who has lived anywhere else.
07-09-2019, 02:56 PM
#20
Ive always told people living there is like living on a giant cruise ship. Great dining, entertainment, weather, pool, drinks, etc.
If you have to actually work, commute, buy groceries, take your kids to school, and try to have a fun drive on the back roads, a cruise ship is not the best choice!
This is why there are so many "great place to visit but not live" comments posted in this thread.
If you have to actually work, commute, buy groceries, take your kids to school, and try to have a fun drive on the back roads, a cruise ship is not the best choice!
This is why there are so many "great place to visit but not live" comments posted in this thread.
07-09-2019, 05:38 PM
#21
California car culture? The only state with special emissions regulations...
07-09-2019, 08:48 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
PA is great from mid-March until mid-June, and in September and October. Mid-June through August, sometimes into September, are unbearably hot and humid and then there is salt season. 
But, you won’t get any argument from me that it is a great place overall. I just need to figure out how to snowbird while being full time employed.
But, you won’t get any argument from me that it is a great place overall. I just need to figure out how to snowbird while being full time employed.
As an example, many, many years ago when the rest of the USA had gone to 65 MPH speed limits, entering western PA was a laugh. Proudly posted were signs on the highway that said, "Still 55 MPH" just to emphasize the state's stalwart politics. Meanwhile, the local dump trucks routinely go as fast as 80 MPH on the sameTurnpike, rocks the size of fists tumbling from their beds as they slam into potholes.
Beautiful country, except for winter. That sucks with the constant freeze-thaw.
07-09-2019, 08:48 PM
#23
Own a place in MAUI and go several times a year, leaving Sat actually for 2+weeks. I really really like it and my wife LOVES it, however I’ve already told her when we retire I’m not going for more that 4-6 weeks at a time 1-2 times per year. Island fever is real for anyone who has lived anywhere else.
07-09-2019, 09:45 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Aloha,
Allow me to weigh in about living in Hawaii, the roads and car culture here.
I was stationed on Oahu Active Duty Air Force '84-'86 (Brought a gray market '78 911SC coupe here with me from Germany). I rented awesome houses those two years in the 80's. Sharing rent with roommates and spending all of my tax free military housing allowance allowed me to live up high in Lanikai (a cool bedroom community on the windward side) and atop Tantalus mountain (2000' above Honolulu in a rainforest).
The highways on Oahu, including the H3, are not in any shape or form "driver's roads". The few high speed sweepers (and zero linked turns) are heavily monitored by laser speed traps. The last few days of the month (ticket quotas have to be met) are ridiculously enforced- like 5mph over is a ticket, never a warning. Tantalus is another story- it is 14 miles of awesome 2nd gear switchbacks through tropical rainforest. There are some scattered driveways on the route, but during working hours midweek, there is little to no traffic. If you encounter a slow poke, pull over for 2 minutes and resume.
https://goo.gl/maps/LJAEQfxwkmvcHwbS7
Sadly, this is the only significant drive worthy of a 911 on the entire island. Oh, there are other twisties, and climbs, on Oahu- but all are short: 13 curves on Auloa Road from Castle Junction to Maunawili-( it's actually called that by locals); the Kalaniana'olé Highway between Hanauma Bay and Sandy Beach (with centerline rumble strips to prevent even using your full lane width); and the Old Pali Highway (Nuuanu Pali Drive) which parallels the 4-lane divided Pali Highway (which has one great hairpin turn on the Kailua side). Other roads with nice curves and climbs are through densely populated neighborhoods.
So, all considered, a crappy place to own a sports car or bike. (There was very cool road over KoleKole Pass, but that closed several years ago.)
Though the year I lived atop Tantalus, I went through 2 sets of Pirelli P7's with my 911SC, in less than 12K miles! It is an awesome stretch of road.
Fast forward to this century:
Moved back here permanently in 1995. (Brought a 944S2 Cabriolet here with me.) Commuted from Kailua to the airport for 20+ years.
The Pali and Likelike Highways and H3 are heavily HPD patrolled (see above). Despite this fact, I upgraded to a used 2007 997 base Carrera in 2012 and drove it for almost 4 years on Oahu. Almost lost my license- not from anything crazy, just harrassing/revenue generating speeding tickets, most on an interstate engineered highway (H3).
I bought a nice 2011 997GTS in Boston in 2016 and drove it 11K miles to LA. North through Maine, north of the Great Lakes in Canada, across the north US via the South Dakota Badlands, Wyoming/Utah/Idahoe Rockies and the Cascades. Then the Pacific Coast Highway from Portland to LA. That 3-month trip avoiding interstates convinced me that the car should not be shipped to Oahu. I store it in LA and continue to drive it in the Malibu Canyons, Angeles Crest, Big Bear, San Jacinto Forest and Highway 33 above Santa Barbara and Ojai. There are few places on earth with a concentration of roads like these- some with an ocean view. The PCH from Cambria to Monterrey is another epic highway, as is Highway 130 over Mt Hamilton east of San Jose.
There are no race tracks on Oahu, or anywhere in Hawaii for that matter. Some drag strips, a couple of dirt ovals- that's about it.
I did a ED in September 2018, picked up a Macan GTS in Leipzig, drove it 3 months through the Alps and Tuscany, shipped it to Atlanta vice Honolulu, then drove 10K miles in 3 months (avoiding interstates) through 13 states and 9 National Parks. That trip convinced me that even a sport-oriented SUV is too much car for Oahu. It, too, remained in LA. So, I ride a bike here and fly out to LA to drive my 911 and Macan GTS's when I need a fix.
Aside from the dearth of driver's roads here, the climate is about perfect. As long as the trade winds blow (and they do, about 40 weeks a year) it is the best weather on the planet. When the High Pressure that sits northeast of Hawaii is absent- due to winter Lows (that bring our world class surf) or Hurricanes passing close enough to affect our weather- we have northeast winds from 10-15 mph that drag dry, cool air from latitudes found in Oregon or Washington. Without the trades, the weather here is like the US Southeast in the summer. (Our entire state is south of Miami's latitude.) Most homes here do not have whole house air-conditioning. Those who can afford it have split systems. McMansions have always existed, and ran AC 24/7/365. They were a tiny minority. With photovoltaic systems, more central air is being installed in homes that previously could not afford the electric bills associated with it.
Which brings up energy: (from Wikipedia)
"Energy in Hawaii is complicated by the state's isolated location and lack of fossil fuel resources. The state relies heavily on imports of petroleum and coal for power although renewable energy is increasing. Hawaii is the state with the highest share of petroleum use in the United States, with about 62% of electricity coming from oil in 2017. As of 2016, 26.6% of electricity was from renewable sources, including solar, wind, hydro and geothermal.
Hawaii has the highest electricity prices in the United States. As of 2016 the average cost of electricity was $0.24 per kilowatt-hour, followed by Alaska at $0.19. The U.S. average was $0.10."
Ouch! The good news is that home heating is not required, except for high elevations on Maui and the Big Island. Driving distances are relatively short and recreation in the ocean is free- no wetsuit required. Buy your sailboard, kite surf gear, kayak, sailboat and utilize those tradewinds 9 months a year. A surfboard is 12 months a year of free fun. Photovoltaic systems are on many, many homes here. Most owners pay nothing for electricity, in fact some systems generate electricity that Hawaiian Electric buys back. Early adopters get the same rate selling as they do buying. Very cool.
Everyone I know with kids has found a way to deal with the sub par schools. Private is expensive, but there are scholarships and aid.
The food, culture and natural beauty here is second to none.
Island fever? There are dozens of flights daily flights to the US and Asia. Cruise ships stop here on a weekly basis. It is the USA with most of the infrastructure enjoyed on the mainland. Violent crime is very, very rare. Property crime, not so much. You need a security system on your home and have to avoid parking where tourists congregate- or your car will likely be broken into. It makes hiking, surfing and sightseeing a little more difficult- but it's definitely not a deal breaker.
The diversity here is also unique for the USA. Caucasians ("Haoles") are a minority. White kids grow up experiencing what it feels like to be "different". I do not think that is a bad thing, at all. Ethnic groups mix here and have become the norm, not the exception. "Hapa" means "half" in pidgin- and many mixed race people here identify as such. Hawaiian immigrants learned to get along working side-by-side in the sugar cane and pineapple fields. 400,000 came here between 1865 and 1941- from Japan (majority), the Phiilipines, Korea, China, many South Pacific Islands, Polynesia and Portugal. People accommodate differences between each other, without effort or reluctance.
The Native Hawaiians, like the American Indians, got run over by US expansion. The island kingdom was overthrown by a group of missionary descendant businessmen. Then made it a territory, and eventually a state in 1959. The Native Hawaiians have intermarried with the immigrant groups, and have a Department of Hawaiian Homeland agency that appears to be about as effective as the Bureau of Indian Affairs on the mainland. There is some resentment towards visitors encroaching on their surf spots and the commercialization of their culture- but it is a mild response, IMO, to a great injustice to their ancestors, heritage and culture. Just my point of view, but one informed by actually living here and working with locals for over 25 years.
Bottom line. Visit here. If you like it, rent here for a few months. If you like that, start a home or condo search. You will know if island life and the local culture is for you. No one is ambivalent about Hawaii. Young people move here with little more than a shirt on their back and make it. It can be done.
Sorry this ran on into a chapter, but it may be of some use to anyone contemplating going tropo.
Aloha
Oh, forgot to add.
Taxes:
State income tax rate is lower than CA, for sure. They do NOT tax retirement checks or pensions.
Sales tax is 4.166%.
Property tax rates are among the lowest in the USA, but valuations are high.
(Taxes on a $2.5M home are $7K/year.)
Allow me to weigh in about living in Hawaii, the roads and car culture here.
I was stationed on Oahu Active Duty Air Force '84-'86 (Brought a gray market '78 911SC coupe here with me from Germany). I rented awesome houses those two years in the 80's. Sharing rent with roommates and spending all of my tax free military housing allowance allowed me to live up high in Lanikai (a cool bedroom community on the windward side) and atop Tantalus mountain (2000' above Honolulu in a rainforest).
The highways on Oahu, including the H3, are not in any shape or form "driver's roads". The few high speed sweepers (and zero linked turns) are heavily monitored by laser speed traps. The last few days of the month (ticket quotas have to be met) are ridiculously enforced- like 5mph over is a ticket, never a warning. Tantalus is another story- it is 14 miles of awesome 2nd gear switchbacks through tropical rainforest. There are some scattered driveways on the route, but during working hours midweek, there is little to no traffic. If you encounter a slow poke, pull over for 2 minutes and resume.
https://goo.gl/maps/LJAEQfxwkmvcHwbS7
Sadly, this is the only significant drive worthy of a 911 on the entire island. Oh, there are other twisties, and climbs, on Oahu- but all are short: 13 curves on Auloa Road from Castle Junction to Maunawili-( it's actually called that by locals); the Kalaniana'olé Highway between Hanauma Bay and Sandy Beach (with centerline rumble strips to prevent even using your full lane width); and the Old Pali Highway (Nuuanu Pali Drive) which parallels the 4-lane divided Pali Highway (which has one great hairpin turn on the Kailua side). Other roads with nice curves and climbs are through densely populated neighborhoods.
So, all considered, a crappy place to own a sports car or bike. (There was very cool road over KoleKole Pass, but that closed several years ago.)
Though the year I lived atop Tantalus, I went through 2 sets of Pirelli P7's with my 911SC, in less than 12K miles! It is an awesome stretch of road.
Fast forward to this century:
Moved back here permanently in 1995. (Brought a 944S2 Cabriolet here with me.) Commuted from Kailua to the airport for 20+ years.
The Pali and Likelike Highways and H3 are heavily HPD patrolled (see above). Despite this fact, I upgraded to a used 2007 997 base Carrera in 2012 and drove it for almost 4 years on Oahu. Almost lost my license- not from anything crazy, just harrassing/revenue generating speeding tickets, most on an interstate engineered highway (H3).
I bought a nice 2011 997GTS in Boston in 2016 and drove it 11K miles to LA. North through Maine, north of the Great Lakes in Canada, across the north US via the South Dakota Badlands, Wyoming/Utah/Idahoe Rockies and the Cascades. Then the Pacific Coast Highway from Portland to LA. That 3-month trip avoiding interstates convinced me that the car should not be shipped to Oahu. I store it in LA and continue to drive it in the Malibu Canyons, Angeles Crest, Big Bear, San Jacinto Forest and Highway 33 above Santa Barbara and Ojai. There are few places on earth with a concentration of roads like these- some with an ocean view. The PCH from Cambria to Monterrey is another epic highway, as is Highway 130 over Mt Hamilton east of San Jose.
There are no race tracks on Oahu, or anywhere in Hawaii for that matter. Some drag strips, a couple of dirt ovals- that's about it.
I did a ED in September 2018, picked up a Macan GTS in Leipzig, drove it 3 months through the Alps and Tuscany, shipped it to Atlanta vice Honolulu, then drove 10K miles in 3 months (avoiding interstates) through 13 states and 9 National Parks. That trip convinced me that even a sport-oriented SUV is too much car for Oahu. It, too, remained in LA. So, I ride a bike here and fly out to LA to drive my 911 and Macan GTS's when I need a fix.
Aside from the dearth of driver's roads here, the climate is about perfect. As long as the trade winds blow (and they do, about 40 weeks a year) it is the best weather on the planet. When the High Pressure that sits northeast of Hawaii is absent- due to winter Lows (that bring our world class surf) or Hurricanes passing close enough to affect our weather- we have northeast winds from 10-15 mph that drag dry, cool air from latitudes found in Oregon or Washington. Without the trades, the weather here is like the US Southeast in the summer. (Our entire state is south of Miami's latitude.) Most homes here do not have whole house air-conditioning. Those who can afford it have split systems. McMansions have always existed, and ran AC 24/7/365. They were a tiny minority. With photovoltaic systems, more central air is being installed in homes that previously could not afford the electric bills associated with it.
Which brings up energy: (from Wikipedia)
"Energy in Hawaii is complicated by the state's isolated location and lack of fossil fuel resources. The state relies heavily on imports of petroleum and coal for power although renewable energy is increasing. Hawaii is the state with the highest share of petroleum use in the United States, with about 62% of electricity coming from oil in 2017. As of 2016, 26.6% of electricity was from renewable sources, including solar, wind, hydro and geothermal.
Hawaii has the highest electricity prices in the United States. As of 2016 the average cost of electricity was $0.24 per kilowatt-hour, followed by Alaska at $0.19. The U.S. average was $0.10."
Ouch! The good news is that home heating is not required, except for high elevations on Maui and the Big Island. Driving distances are relatively short and recreation in the ocean is free- no wetsuit required. Buy your sailboard, kite surf gear, kayak, sailboat and utilize those tradewinds 9 months a year. A surfboard is 12 months a year of free fun. Photovoltaic systems are on many, many homes here. Most owners pay nothing for electricity, in fact some systems generate electricity that Hawaiian Electric buys back. Early adopters get the same rate selling as they do buying. Very cool.
Everyone I know with kids has found a way to deal with the sub par schools. Private is expensive, but there are scholarships and aid.
The food, culture and natural beauty here is second to none.
Island fever? There are dozens of flights daily flights to the US and Asia. Cruise ships stop here on a weekly basis. It is the USA with most of the infrastructure enjoyed on the mainland. Violent crime is very, very rare. Property crime, not so much. You need a security system on your home and have to avoid parking where tourists congregate- or your car will likely be broken into. It makes hiking, surfing and sightseeing a little more difficult- but it's definitely not a deal breaker.
The diversity here is also unique for the USA. Caucasians ("Haoles") are a minority. White kids grow up experiencing what it feels like to be "different". I do not think that is a bad thing, at all. Ethnic groups mix here and have become the norm, not the exception. "Hapa" means "half" in pidgin- and many mixed race people here identify as such. Hawaiian immigrants learned to get along working side-by-side in the sugar cane and pineapple fields. 400,000 came here between 1865 and 1941- from Japan (majority), the Phiilipines, Korea, China, many South Pacific Islands, Polynesia and Portugal. People accommodate differences between each other, without effort or reluctance.
The Native Hawaiians, like the American Indians, got run over by US expansion. The island kingdom was overthrown by a group of missionary descendant businessmen. Then made it a territory, and eventually a state in 1959. The Native Hawaiians have intermarried with the immigrant groups, and have a Department of Hawaiian Homeland agency that appears to be about as effective as the Bureau of Indian Affairs on the mainland. There is some resentment towards visitors encroaching on their surf spots and the commercialization of their culture- but it is a mild response, IMO, to a great injustice to their ancestors, heritage and culture. Just my point of view, but one informed by actually living here and working with locals for over 25 years.
Bottom line. Visit here. If you like it, rent here for a few months. If you like that, start a home or condo search. You will know if island life and the local culture is for you. No one is ambivalent about Hawaii. Young people move here with little more than a shirt on their back and make it. It can be done.
Sorry this ran on into a chapter, but it may be of some use to anyone contemplating going tropo.
Aloha
Oh, forgot to add.
Taxes:
State income tax rate is lower than CA, for sure. They do NOT tax retirement checks or pensions.
Sales tax is 4.166%.
Property tax rates are among the lowest in the USA, but valuations are high.
(Taxes on a $2.5M home are $7K/year.)
Last edited by Liste-Renn; 07-09-2019 at 11:34 PM. Reason: Taxes
The following 4 users liked this post by Liste-Renn:
07-09-2019, 11:46 PM
#27
Drifting
Aloha,
Allow me to weigh in about living in Hawaii, the roads and car culture here.
I was stationed on Oahu Active Duty Air Force '84-'86 (Brought a gray market '78 911SC coupe here with me from Germany). I rented awesome houses those two years in the 80's. Sharing rent with roommates and spending all of my tax free military housing allowance allowed me to live up high in Lanikai (a cool bedroom community on the windward side) and atop Tantalus mountain (2000' above Honolulu in a rainforest).
The highways on Oahu, including the H3, are not in any shape or form "driver's roads". The few high speed sweepers (and zero linked turns) are heavily monitored by laser speed traps. The last few days of the month (ticket quotas have to be met) are ridiculously enforced- like 5mph over is a ticket, never a warning. Tantalus is another story- it is 14 miles of awesome 2nd gear switchbacks through tropical rainforest. There are some scattered driveways on the route, but during working hours midweek, there is little to no traffic. If you encounter a slow poke, pull over for 2 minutes and resume.
https://goo.gl/maps/LJAEQfxwkmvcHwbS7
Sadly, this is the only significant drive worthy of a 911 on the entire island. Oh, there are other twisties, and climbs, on Oahu- but all are short: 13 curves on Auloa Road from Castle Junction to Maunawili-( it's actually called that by locals); the Kalaniana'olé Highway between Hanauma Bay and Sandy Beach (with centerline rumble strips to prevent even using your full lane width); and the Old Pali Highway (Nuuanu Pali Drive) which parallels the 4-lane divided Pali Highway (which has one great hairpin turn on the Kailua side). Other roads with nice curves and climbs are through densely populated neighborhoods.
So, all considered, a crappy place to own a sports car or bike. (There was very cool road over KoleKole Pass, but that closed several years ago.)
Though the year I lived atop Tantalus, I went through 2 sets of Pirelli P7's with my 911SC, in less than 12K miles! It is an awesome stretch of road.
Fast forward to this century:
Moved back here permanently in 1995. (Brought a 944S2 Cabriolet here with me.) Commuted from Kailua to the airport for 20+ years.
The Pali and Likelike Highways and H3 are heavily HPD patrolled (see above). Despite this fact, I upgraded to a used 2007 997 base Carrera in 2012 and drove it for almost 4 years on Oahu. Almost lost my license- not from anything crazy, just harrassing/revenue generating speeding tickets, most on an interstate engineered highway (H3).
I bought a nice 2011 997GTS in Boston in 2016 and drove it 11K miles to LA. North through Maine, north of the Great Lakes in Canada, across the north US via the South Dakota Badlands, Wyoming/Utah/Idahoe Rockies and the Cascades. Then the Pacific Coast Highway from Portland to LA. That 3-month trip avoiding interstates convinced me that the car should not be shipped to Oahu. I store it in LA and continue to drive it in the Malibu Canyons, Angeles Crest, Big Bear, San Jacinto Forest and Highway 33 above Santa Barbara and Ojai. There are few places on earth with a concentration of roads like these- some with an ocean view. The PCH from Cambria to Monterrey is another epic highway, as is Highway 130 over Mt Hamilton east of San Jose.
There are no race tracks on Oahu, or anywhere in Hawaii for that matter. Some drag strips, a couple of dirt ovals- that's about it.
I did a ED in September 2018, picked up a Macan GTS in Leipzig, drove it 3 months through the Alps and Tuscany, shipped it to Atlanta vice Honolulu, then drove 10K miles in 3 months (avoiding interstates) through 13 states and 9 National Parks. That trip convinced me that even a sport-oriented SUV is too much car for Oahu. It, too, remained in LA. So, I ride a bike here and fly out to LA to drive my 911 and Macan GTS's when I need a fix.
Aside from the dearth of driver's roads here, the climate is about perfect. As long as the trade winds blow (and they do, about 40 weeks a year) it is the best weather on the planet. When the High Pressure that sits northeast of Hawaii is absent- due to winter Lows (that bring our world class surf) or Hurricanes passing close enough to affect our weather- we have northeast winds from 10-15 mph that drag dry, cool air from latitudes found in Oregon or Washington. Without the trades, the weather here is like the US Southeast in the summer. (Our entire state is south of Miami's latitude.) Most homes here do not have whole house air-conditioning. Those who can afford it have split systems. McMansions have always existed, and ran AC 24/7/365. They were a tiny minority. With photovoltaic systems, more central air is being installed in homes that previously could not afford the electric bills associated with it.
Which brings up energy: (from Wikipedia)
"Energy in Hawaii is complicated by the state's isolated location and lack of fossil fuel resources. The state relies heavily on imports of petroleum and coal for power although renewable energy is increasing. Hawaii is the state with the highest share of petroleum use in the United States, with about 62% of electricity coming from oil in 2017. As of 2016, 26.6% of electricity was from renewable sources, including solar, wind, hydro and geothermal.
Hawaii has the highest electricity prices in the United States. As of 2016 the average cost of electricity was $0.24 per kilowatt-hour, followed by Alaska at $0.19. The U.S. average was $0.10."
Ouch! The good news is that home heating is not required, except for high elevations on Maui and the Big Island. Driving distances are relatively short and recreation in the ocean is free- no wetsuit required. Buy your sailboard, kite surf gear, kayak, sailboat and utilize those tradewinds 9 months a year. A surfboard is 12 months a year of free fun. Photovoltaic systems are on many, many homes here. Most owners pay nothing for electricity, in fact some systems generate electricity that Hawaiian Electric buys back. Early adopters get the same rate selling as they do buying. Very cool.
Everyone I know with kids has found a way to deal with the sub par schools. Private is expensive, but there are scholarships and aid.
The food, culture and natural beauty here is second to none.
Island fever? There are dozens of flights daily flights to the US and Asia. Cruise ships stop here on a weekly basis. It is the USA with most of the infrastructure enjoyed on the mainland. Violent crime is very, very rare. Property crime, not so much. You need a security system on your home and have to avoid parking where tourists congregate- or your car will likely be broken into. It makes hiking, surfing and sightseeing a little more difficult- but it's definitely not a deal breaker.
The diversity here is also unique for the USA. Caucasians ("Haoles") are a minority. White kids grow up experiencing what it feels like to be "different". I do not think that is a bad thing, at all. Ethnic groups mix here and have become the norm, not the exception. "Hapa" means "half" in pidgin- and many mixed race people here identify as such. Hawaiian immigrants learned to get along working side-by-side in the sugar cane and pineapple fields. 400,000 came here between 1865 and 1941- from Japan (majority), the Phiilipines, Korea, China, many South Pacific Islands, Polynesia and Portugal. People accommodate differences between each other, without effort or reluctance.
The Native Hawaiians, like the American Indians, got run over by US expansion. The island kingdom was overthrown by a group of missionary descendant businessmen. Then made it a territory, and eventually a state in 1959. The Native Hawaiians have intermarried with the immigrant groups, and have a Department of Hawaiian Homeland agency that appears to be about as effective as the Bureau of Indian Affairs on the mainland. There is some resentment towards visitors encroaching on their surf spots and the commercialization of their culture- but it is a mild response, IMO, to a great injustice to their ancestors, heritage and culture. Just my point of view, but one informed by actually living here and working with locals for over 25 years.
Bottom line. Visit here. If you like it, rent here for a few months. If you like that, start a home or condo search. You will know if island life and the local culture is for you. No one is ambivalent about Hawaii. Young people move here with little more than a shirt on their back and make it. It can be done.
Sorry this ran on into a chapter, but it may be of some use to anyone contemplating going tropo.
Aloha
Oh, forgot to add.
Taxes:
State income tax rate is lower than CA, for sure. They do NOT tax retirement checks or pensions.
Sales tax is 4.166%.
Property tax rates are among the lowest in the USA, but valuations are high.
(Taxes on a $2.5M home are $7K/year.)
Allow me to weigh in about living in Hawaii, the roads and car culture here.
I was stationed on Oahu Active Duty Air Force '84-'86 (Brought a gray market '78 911SC coupe here with me from Germany). I rented awesome houses those two years in the 80's. Sharing rent with roommates and spending all of my tax free military housing allowance allowed me to live up high in Lanikai (a cool bedroom community on the windward side) and atop Tantalus mountain (2000' above Honolulu in a rainforest).
The highways on Oahu, including the H3, are not in any shape or form "driver's roads". The few high speed sweepers (and zero linked turns) are heavily monitored by laser speed traps. The last few days of the month (ticket quotas have to be met) are ridiculously enforced- like 5mph over is a ticket, never a warning. Tantalus is another story- it is 14 miles of awesome 2nd gear switchbacks through tropical rainforest. There are some scattered driveways on the route, but during working hours midweek, there is little to no traffic. If you encounter a slow poke, pull over for 2 minutes and resume.
https://goo.gl/maps/LJAEQfxwkmvcHwbS7
Sadly, this is the only significant drive worthy of a 911 on the entire island. Oh, there are other twisties, and climbs, on Oahu- but all are short: 13 curves on Auloa Road from Castle Junction to Maunawili-( it's actually called that by locals); the Kalaniana'olé Highway between Hanauma Bay and Sandy Beach (with centerline rumble strips to prevent even using your full lane width); and the Old Pali Highway (Nuuanu Pali Drive) which parallels the 4-lane divided Pali Highway (which has one great hairpin turn on the Kailua side). Other roads with nice curves and climbs are through densely populated neighborhoods.
So, all considered, a crappy place to own a sports car or bike. (There was very cool road over KoleKole Pass, but that closed several years ago.)
Though the year I lived atop Tantalus, I went through 2 sets of Pirelli P7's with my 911SC, in less than 12K miles! It is an awesome stretch of road.
Fast forward to this century:
Moved back here permanently in 1995. (Brought a 944S2 Cabriolet here with me.) Commuted from Kailua to the airport for 20+ years.
The Pali and Likelike Highways and H3 are heavily HPD patrolled (see above). Despite this fact, I upgraded to a used 2007 997 base Carrera in 2012 and drove it for almost 4 years on Oahu. Almost lost my license- not from anything crazy, just harrassing/revenue generating speeding tickets, most on an interstate engineered highway (H3).
I bought a nice 2011 997GTS in Boston in 2016 and drove it 11K miles to LA. North through Maine, north of the Great Lakes in Canada, across the north US via the South Dakota Badlands, Wyoming/Utah/Idahoe Rockies and the Cascades. Then the Pacific Coast Highway from Portland to LA. That 3-month trip avoiding interstates convinced me that the car should not be shipped to Oahu. I store it in LA and continue to drive it in the Malibu Canyons, Angeles Crest, Big Bear, San Jacinto Forest and Highway 33 above Santa Barbara and Ojai. There are few places on earth with a concentration of roads like these- some with an ocean view. The PCH from Cambria to Monterrey is another epic highway, as is Highway 130 over Mt Hamilton east of San Jose.
There are no race tracks on Oahu, or anywhere in Hawaii for that matter. Some drag strips, a couple of dirt ovals- that's about it.
I did a ED in September 2018, picked up a Macan GTS in Leipzig, drove it 3 months through the Alps and Tuscany, shipped it to Atlanta vice Honolulu, then drove 10K miles in 3 months (avoiding interstates) through 13 states and 9 National Parks. That trip convinced me that even a sport-oriented SUV is too much car for Oahu. It, too, remained in LA. So, I ride a bike here and fly out to LA to drive my 911 and Macan GTS's when I need a fix.
Aside from the dearth of driver's roads here, the climate is about perfect. As long as the trade winds blow (and they do, about 40 weeks a year) it is the best weather on the planet. When the High Pressure that sits northeast of Hawaii is absent- due to winter Lows (that bring our world class surf) or Hurricanes passing close enough to affect our weather- we have northeast winds from 10-15 mph that drag dry, cool air from latitudes found in Oregon or Washington. Without the trades, the weather here is like the US Southeast in the summer. (Our entire state is south of Miami's latitude.) Most homes here do not have whole house air-conditioning. Those who can afford it have split systems. McMansions have always existed, and ran AC 24/7/365. They were a tiny minority. With photovoltaic systems, more central air is being installed in homes that previously could not afford the electric bills associated with it.
Which brings up energy: (from Wikipedia)
"Energy in Hawaii is complicated by the state's isolated location and lack of fossil fuel resources. The state relies heavily on imports of petroleum and coal for power although renewable energy is increasing. Hawaii is the state with the highest share of petroleum use in the United States, with about 62% of electricity coming from oil in 2017. As of 2016, 26.6% of electricity was from renewable sources, including solar, wind, hydro and geothermal.
Hawaii has the highest electricity prices in the United States. As of 2016 the average cost of electricity was $0.24 per kilowatt-hour, followed by Alaska at $0.19. The U.S. average was $0.10."
Ouch! The good news is that home heating is not required, except for high elevations on Maui and the Big Island. Driving distances are relatively short and recreation in the ocean is free- no wetsuit required. Buy your sailboard, kite surf gear, kayak, sailboat and utilize those tradewinds 9 months a year. A surfboard is 12 months a year of free fun. Photovoltaic systems are on many, many homes here. Most owners pay nothing for electricity, in fact some systems generate electricity that Hawaiian Electric buys back. Early adopters get the same rate selling as they do buying. Very cool.
Everyone I know with kids has found a way to deal with the sub par schools. Private is expensive, but there are scholarships and aid.
The food, culture and natural beauty here is second to none.
Island fever? There are dozens of flights daily flights to the US and Asia. Cruise ships stop here on a weekly basis. It is the USA with most of the infrastructure enjoyed on the mainland. Violent crime is very, very rare. Property crime, not so much. You need a security system on your home and have to avoid parking where tourists congregate- or your car will likely be broken into. It makes hiking, surfing and sightseeing a little more difficult- but it's definitely not a deal breaker.
The diversity here is also unique for the USA. Caucasians ("Haoles") are a minority. White kids grow up experiencing what it feels like to be "different". I do not think that is a bad thing, at all. Ethnic groups mix here and have become the norm, not the exception. "Hapa" means "half" in pidgin- and many mixed race people here identify as such. Hawaiian immigrants learned to get along working side-by-side in the sugar cane and pineapple fields. 400,000 came here between 1865 and 1941- from Japan (majority), the Phiilipines, Korea, China, many South Pacific Islands, Polynesia and Portugal. People accommodate differences between each other, without effort or reluctance.
The Native Hawaiians, like the American Indians, got run over by US expansion. The island kingdom was overthrown by a group of missionary descendant businessmen. Then made it a territory, and eventually a state in 1959. The Native Hawaiians have intermarried with the immigrant groups, and have a Department of Hawaiian Homeland agency that appears to be about as effective as the Bureau of Indian Affairs on the mainland. There is some resentment towards visitors encroaching on their surf spots and the commercialization of their culture- but it is a mild response, IMO, to a great injustice to their ancestors, heritage and culture. Just my point of view, but one informed by actually living here and working with locals for over 25 years.
Bottom line. Visit here. If you like it, rent here for a few months. If you like that, start a home or condo search. You will know if island life and the local culture is for you. No one is ambivalent about Hawaii. Young people move here with little more than a shirt on their back and make it. It can be done.
Sorry this ran on into a chapter, but it may be of some use to anyone contemplating going tropo.
Aloha
Oh, forgot to add.
Taxes:
State income tax rate is lower than CA, for sure. They do NOT tax retirement checks or pensions.
Sales tax is 4.166%.
Property tax rates are among the lowest in the USA, but valuations are high.
(Taxes on a $2.5M home are $7K/year.)
07-10-2019, 02:34 AM
#29
Race Director
07-10-2019, 07:49 AM
#30
Rennlist Member
