2018 GT3 vs 2019 GT3 on track- actively updating
11-02-2018, 12:31 AM
#1
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2018 GT3 vs 2019 GT3 on track- actively updating
Hey guys, Neoprufrok and I filmed our first TV episode for our ThrottleDogs Podcast/Webcast and will be actively updating with pics and onboard videos.
I'd like to invite you to follow our adventures as we give ACTUAL and UNPAID BY MANUFACTURER opinions and objective times and measurements. Sure Randy Pobst did a 1:30 in XYZ car here or there...but that crap is not relevant to us as those are full on setup cars from the factory, or cheater ferraris etc.
These are unmodified cars that we either own, or took in trade, or get lent to us by owners. Until someone else gives me a car and says- stack it up against the other LapDogs...this is how we are doing it. I'm driving what I think is a 9.5/10ths lap after 4-6 familiarization laps. Let me qualify this- some street car platforms I am very familiar with (GT3RS, mclaren, R8, Raptor, 993, 997, viper) having owned them for a while or owned multiple cars. But realistically I'm an FIA Bronze (aka a hack with a wallet). My claim to fame skill wise is that I broke the stock street car lap record with my ACR and my P1 at Chuckwalla at the same day but ended up .4 sec faster in the ACRX. For reference 2 years ago this was a 1:52.xx- no idea what it is now. In the ACR I have done a 1:22.xx at Willow Springs in the half day my front tires lasted there. So, I'm quick enough to drive quick enough to have an opinion, but slow enough that my opinion is just some random dude on the internet. I drive a lot of different cars, and don't fluff them- since two of them are Doc Dog's cars...I don't want to stuff them either...
I drove the GT3 6spd with LWB and PCCB on same day as my 2019 RS with LWB and PCCB. Both cars had MPSC2 tires and have no heat cycles on tires.
We took to the track at Sonoma which as everyone knows is a super technical (aka you can destroy your car easily) type of track but with a few really cool 4th and 5th gear sweeping corners, elevation change similar to Laguna Seca/Road Atlanta
Temps were 60F for the 10am session and 77F for the 2pm session. I took four cars out, and drove them with "proper tire temps" as suggested by the T1 club mechanics. I personally LOVE Sonoma- its unique and narrow in parts and really good acoustics from the walls right next to the track.
First car was GT3, then the 2016 675LT, then the 720S, then the GT3RS. I did one session in each car- but the primary comparisons are between the two porsches for this thread so it will remain on that topic.
First impressions- GT3
I felt like the rear steering on the GT3 was more "aggravating" on cold tires.
The 6psd feels really direct while at speed, I never was hunting for gears despite the lightness of the clutch- there are a lot of 2-3 gear downshifts and never felt rushed to get through the gears.
Once the tires warmed up, the car was a lot more neutral but the sensation that the car has on cold tires was a lot bigger roll radius per corner.
This was my first time tracking the new GT3, and with track temps and air temps really ideal for this first session, I ended up pushing fairly hard (THANK YOU OPEN TRACK INSURANCE!!)-
The car feels really familiar, definitely a little different than my previous GT3RS 2016's or my 911R.
The engine (3.8) in the last GT3 seemed really revvy with the PDK so I was not expecting to love the manual.
First Impressions- GT3RS
The car feels modified, right out of the gate- VERY reminiscent of how "fixed" the 2010RS felt after spending a lot of time on alignments and chasing setups on the 997.1RS.
The PDK software or hardware is MUCH more aggressive- the shifts are more positive, snappier, the fuel cut is a lot more aggressive and feels racier.
The rear steering was not as much of an issue here, regardless of the tire temps. The car felt much more planted through fast corners and even with some yaw angle, the car is much flatter and has lower body roll.
The rear of the car wants to rotate a little more in the last part of a corner vs the first part of the corner on the GT3. This allows you to slam the gas down in order to "catch" the rear end as you are exiting and accelerating.
Transition from max throttle to max braking is easier with Left Foot which in GT3 has to be more delicate as you hunt for correct pedal pressure and heel-toe.
The exhaust is amazing. no mods needed unless you want to go deaf- the sound is CRISP and clean. on track it snaps on up and downshifts.
From a lap time perspective, I had a few good laps ruined by traffic in all the cars, and actually got ABS Ice mode and almost went off in the RS. That concluded my day as I felt the track was going away and I had put a decent lap in already...The car I really got cheated on was the 675LT as I think that was going to be the fastest car but had some glitchy stuff with ESC on lap 5 after I had done a 1:47.5. I ended up doing a 1:47.0 in the 720S but also didn't optimize the TCS/Drift mode settings...so all 4 cars could use Round 2 for some more accurate "what can it do" type tests...
The PCCB is still the real deal- and I would definitely order it on all subsequent cars. I spent the night before the track bedding in the brakes on my car- and Rich's GT3 was running on 100OCT so he had the deck stacked a bit.
Laptime wise: I ended up around .75 faster in the RS- but the two cars ran about 4 hours apart due to having "session" exchanges with the open wheel dudes. So while we were not able to hop right into the RS after the GT3, same tire brand, same driver, same track, same day. Only variable is temperatures. It was slightly windier in the afternoon. I would account for about .5-.7 seconds of track speed decline from 10:15AM at sonoma to 2:15PM due to greasier conditions. I'll have video up but the sensation of driving both cars was that the GT3 was a lot more eager (might have been the 100OCT) but BOTH cars are staying long term and will be used as benchmarks for future reference laps.
I ran all 4 cars within 1.1 seconds of each other at sonoma but our Harry's lap timer was malfunctioning so I am relying on 2 person teams of lap timers- I drove with a helmet cam also and will try to extricate the laps to do side by sides. Apparently my times were ok but I am definitely leaving a lot of time on the table which is more representative of US (meaning us rennlisters) as a unit group vs the collective Randy's and Stigs of the world. I think just in terms of track temps and effort level I can get about 1.5 seconds faster in each car if they were to run max attack configurations and ideal slot in day. Only having 6-7 laps per car makes it hard to extract the max out of it for me.
The GT3 was the slowest time of the day with an approx 1:48 (we will verify and I will update)- since this car was run at ideal track temps and 100 oct, I'm not sure what I had left in it...maybe 1 second due to wimping out in certain sections (T1, T10)
The GT3RS did a 1:47.3- but I really think that with lower tire pressures in the rear (I got to 38 each side in rear) then I could have done a 1:46 or better if track temps were ideal, and less wimping.
I think we will be establishing the GT3 OR the GT3RS as the benchmark car that will see direct comparos to all the cars we have coming...Ford GT, Senna, .2GT4, 992-S, 600LT, etc. We will test all of them and update as we go...now I'll edit this post and throw some pictures in.
End of the day was:
TheThrottleDogs LapDogs
720S- 1.46.59 (1.30pm)
GT3RS- 1.47.05 (215pm)
675- 1.47.09 (1130am)
GT3- 1.48.18 (1015am)
I'd like to invite you to follow our adventures as we give ACTUAL and UNPAID BY MANUFACTURER opinions and objective times and measurements. Sure Randy Pobst did a 1:30 in XYZ car here or there...but that crap is not relevant to us as those are full on setup cars from the factory, or cheater ferraris etc.
These are unmodified cars that we either own, or took in trade, or get lent to us by owners. Until someone else gives me a car and says- stack it up against the other LapDogs...this is how we are doing it. I'm driving what I think is a 9.5/10ths lap after 4-6 familiarization laps. Let me qualify this- some street car platforms I am very familiar with (GT3RS, mclaren, R8, Raptor, 993, 997, viper) having owned them for a while or owned multiple cars. But realistically I'm an FIA Bronze (aka a hack with a wallet). My claim to fame skill wise is that I broke the stock street car lap record with my ACR and my P1 at Chuckwalla at the same day but ended up .4 sec faster in the ACRX. For reference 2 years ago this was a 1:52.xx- no idea what it is now. In the ACR I have done a 1:22.xx at Willow Springs in the half day my front tires lasted there. So, I'm quick enough to drive quick enough to have an opinion, but slow enough that my opinion is just some random dude on the internet. I drive a lot of different cars, and don't fluff them- since two of them are Doc Dog's cars...I don't want to stuff them either...
I drove the GT3 6spd with LWB and PCCB on same day as my 2019 RS with LWB and PCCB. Both cars had MPSC2 tires and have no heat cycles on tires.
We took to the track at Sonoma which as everyone knows is a super technical (aka you can destroy your car easily) type of track but with a few really cool 4th and 5th gear sweeping corners, elevation change similar to Laguna Seca/Road Atlanta
Temps were 60F for the 10am session and 77F for the 2pm session. I took four cars out, and drove them with "proper tire temps" as suggested by the T1 club mechanics. I personally LOVE Sonoma- its unique and narrow in parts and really good acoustics from the walls right next to the track.
First car was GT3, then the 2016 675LT, then the 720S, then the GT3RS. I did one session in each car- but the primary comparisons are between the two porsches for this thread so it will remain on that topic.
First impressions- GT3
I felt like the rear steering on the GT3 was more "aggravating" on cold tires.
The 6psd feels really direct while at speed, I never was hunting for gears despite the lightness of the clutch- there are a lot of 2-3 gear downshifts and never felt rushed to get through the gears.
Once the tires warmed up, the car was a lot more neutral but the sensation that the car has on cold tires was a lot bigger roll radius per corner.
This was my first time tracking the new GT3, and with track temps and air temps really ideal for this first session, I ended up pushing fairly hard (THANK YOU OPEN TRACK INSURANCE!!)-
The car feels really familiar, definitely a little different than my previous GT3RS 2016's or my 911R.
The engine (3.8) in the last GT3 seemed really revvy with the PDK so I was not expecting to love the manual.
First Impressions- GT3RS
The car feels modified, right out of the gate- VERY reminiscent of how "fixed" the 2010RS felt after spending a lot of time on alignments and chasing setups on the 997.1RS.
The PDK software or hardware is MUCH more aggressive- the shifts are more positive, snappier, the fuel cut is a lot more aggressive and feels racier.
The rear steering was not as much of an issue here, regardless of the tire temps. The car felt much more planted through fast corners and even with some yaw angle, the car is much flatter and has lower body roll.
The rear of the car wants to rotate a little more in the last part of a corner vs the first part of the corner on the GT3. This allows you to slam the gas down in order to "catch" the rear end as you are exiting and accelerating.
Transition from max throttle to max braking is easier with Left Foot which in GT3 has to be more delicate as you hunt for correct pedal pressure and heel-toe.
The exhaust is amazing. no mods needed unless you want to go deaf- the sound is CRISP and clean. on track it snaps on up and downshifts.
From a lap time perspective, I had a few good laps ruined by traffic in all the cars, and actually got ABS Ice mode and almost went off in the RS. That concluded my day as I felt the track was going away and I had put a decent lap in already...The car I really got cheated on was the 675LT as I think that was going to be the fastest car but had some glitchy stuff with ESC on lap 5 after I had done a 1:47.5. I ended up doing a 1:47.0 in the 720S but also didn't optimize the TCS/Drift mode settings...so all 4 cars could use Round 2 for some more accurate "what can it do" type tests...
The PCCB is still the real deal- and I would definitely order it on all subsequent cars. I spent the night before the track bedding in the brakes on my car- and Rich's GT3 was running on 100OCT so he had the deck stacked a bit.
Laptime wise: I ended up around .75 faster in the RS- but the two cars ran about 4 hours apart due to having "session" exchanges with the open wheel dudes. So while we were not able to hop right into the RS after the GT3, same tire brand, same driver, same track, same day. Only variable is temperatures. It was slightly windier in the afternoon. I would account for about .5-.7 seconds of track speed decline from 10:15AM at sonoma to 2:15PM due to greasier conditions. I'll have video up but the sensation of driving both cars was that the GT3 was a lot more eager (might have been the 100OCT) but BOTH cars are staying long term and will be used as benchmarks for future reference laps.
I ran all 4 cars within 1.1 seconds of each other at sonoma but our Harry's lap timer was malfunctioning so I am relying on 2 person teams of lap timers- I drove with a helmet cam also and will try to extricate the laps to do side by sides. Apparently my times were ok but I am definitely leaving a lot of time on the table which is more representative of US (meaning us rennlisters) as a unit group vs the collective Randy's and Stigs of the world. I think just in terms of track temps and effort level I can get about 1.5 seconds faster in each car if they were to run max attack configurations and ideal slot in day. Only having 6-7 laps per car makes it hard to extract the max out of it for me.
The GT3 was the slowest time of the day with an approx 1:48 (we will verify and I will update)- since this car was run at ideal track temps and 100 oct, I'm not sure what I had left in it...maybe 1 second due to wimping out in certain sections (T1, T10)
The GT3RS did a 1:47.3- but I really think that with lower tire pressures in the rear (I got to 38 each side in rear) then I could have done a 1:46 or better if track temps were ideal, and less wimping.
I think we will be establishing the GT3 OR the GT3RS as the benchmark car that will see direct comparos to all the cars we have coming...Ford GT, Senna, .2GT4, 992-S, 600LT, etc. We will test all of them and update as we go...now I'll edit this post and throw some pictures in.
End of the day was:
TheThrottleDogs LapDogs
720S- 1.46.59 (1.30pm)
GT3RS- 1.47.05 (215pm)
675- 1.47.09 (1130am)
GT3- 1.48.18 (1015am)
Last edited by C.J. Ichiban; 11-04-2018 at 11:36 PM.
11-02-2018, 12:46 AM
#4
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
With there was a 991.2 GT3 with PDK in the group. Just to control for drivetrain differences.
But interesting results nonetheless. Looking forward to the rest of the results.
But interesting results nonetheless. Looking forward to the rest of the results.
11-02-2018, 12:54 AM
#5
Nordschleife Master
CJ, l LOVE IT!
These are the types of posts I wish I would see on rennlist all of the time. Very nice real world testing of 4 great cars all on the same day by a legit driver. I cant wait to see the videos!
Sonoma is the closest race track to me (only 45 minutes!), so know it fairly well and love the course. That track also seems to be the track that gives me the largest variables in terms of lap times. Some days I'll kill it, and other days I'm 3 seconds off. I'm not sure if it's just the technicality of the track that requires you to be ON your game, or if conditions make it highly variable.
In terms of ultimate lap times achievable there, I'm guessing the .2 GT3 is closer to 1:45 and the .2 RS a 1:44. I'm not saying I can do it, but based on times I've collected, that is what I'm extrapolating.
I've done 1:48.2 in my GT4 on RE71Rs. Both Andrie Hartanto and Dave Potter, our local hotshoes, did 1:47.x in their GT4s.
I did 1:47.4 in my 991.1 GT3 on MPSC2. A good driver and friend of mine has done 1:45.3 in his 991.2 GT3.
Below are the videos of the laps mentioned above.
These are the types of posts I wish I would see on rennlist all of the time. Very nice real world testing of 4 great cars all on the same day by a legit driver. I cant wait to see the videos!
Sonoma is the closest race track to me (only 45 minutes!), so know it fairly well and love the course. That track also seems to be the track that gives me the largest variables in terms of lap times. Some days I'll kill it, and other days I'm 3 seconds off. I'm not sure if it's just the technicality of the track that requires you to be ON your game, or if conditions make it highly variable.
In terms of ultimate lap times achievable there, I'm guessing the .2 GT3 is closer to 1:45 and the .2 RS a 1:44. I'm not saying I can do it, but based on times I've collected, that is what I'm extrapolating.
I've done 1:48.2 in my GT4 on RE71Rs. Both Andrie Hartanto and Dave Potter, our local hotshoes, did 1:47.x in their GT4s.
I did 1:47.4 in my 991.1 GT3 on MPSC2. A good driver and friend of mine has done 1:45.3 in his 991.2 GT3.
Below are the videos of the laps mentioned above.
Last edited by orthojoe; 11-02-2018 at 01:17 AM.
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11-02-2018, 01:17 AM
#8
Nordschleife Master
1:34.8 at Laguna Seca in a manual 991.2 GT3 driven by me.
1:36.0 at Laguna Seca in a PDK 991.2 GT3 driven by a friend who usually posts faster times than I do.
11-02-2018, 01:22 AM
#9
This is great - Thx CJ
11-02-2018, 01:36 AM
#11
Wait, wait, wait...did you just say that the PCCBs were awesome...
11-02-2018, 01:46 AM
#12
Addict
Rennlist Member
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When the 8spd version of pdk comes with the 992, that should put some more daylight between it and the 6M.
I predict this will be one of the hottest threads on RL
11-02-2018, 02:24 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
Awesome thread!
I'm very curious to see how much faster the .2 RS is than the .1. If the car is very much improved, 1:46 or better at Sonoma should be a no brainer.
My 991.1 RS did 1:47.2 with bunch of mistakes.
I'm very curious to see how much faster the .2 RS is than the .1. If the car is very much improved, 1:46 or better at Sonoma should be a no brainer.
My 991.1 RS did 1:47.2 with bunch of mistakes.
11-02-2018, 02:41 AM
#15
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Right well like I explained- this was literally a total of 6-7 straight laps per car. Then wait 45 mins and plop into different car. That's it. No second session, no tire pressure adjustment.
I can easily go faster just by pushing harder into T1 but wanted to survive the day in all the cars to see how big of a difference between the 2018 Gt3 and the 2019 RS exists in reality vs market fluff.
I'm here to explain that there is a negligible difference between the two cars- I drove them on the same day. Granted it was the first time I'd driven either of them but I've been tracking 997's and 991's a ton and have been tracking my manual GTS all year at Laguna Seca.
Did I get the most from them? No.
Did track temps and grip swing? Yes.
Did Rich/Neo putting 100 OCT help his car? No idea.
If you have driven Sonoma before/ it's a lot like COTA where the track is totally different at different times of day. The track itself slows down a lot. Buttonwillow is similar - very greasy in some corners.
Sonoma as a 'control' track is very odd- car could be totaled if I make a mistake. My best time at a previous visit was in my LT spider when I did a 1:43.xx (I ended up going off at the apex of Turn 2 trying to carry too much speed and ripped the plastic air dam and brake duct guides off the car)- not sure what I ran in my 997RS on Hoosiers previously.
We will get the Ford GT up for a lap very soon also.
I can easily go faster just by pushing harder into T1 but wanted to survive the day in all the cars to see how big of a difference between the 2018 Gt3 and the 2019 RS exists in reality vs market fluff.
I'm here to explain that there is a negligible difference between the two cars- I drove them on the same day. Granted it was the first time I'd driven either of them but I've been tracking 997's and 991's a ton and have been tracking my manual GTS all year at Laguna Seca.
Did I get the most from them? No.
Did track temps and grip swing? Yes.
Did Rich/Neo putting 100 OCT help his car? No idea.
If you have driven Sonoma before/ it's a lot like COTA where the track is totally different at different times of day. The track itself slows down a lot. Buttonwillow is similar - very greasy in some corners.
Sonoma as a 'control' track is very odd- car could be totaled if I make a mistake. My best time at a previous visit was in my LT spider when I did a 1:43.xx (I ended up going off at the apex of Turn 2 trying to carry too much speed and ripped the plastic air dam and brake duct guides off the car)- not sure what I ran in my 997RS on Hoosiers previously.
We will get the Ford GT up for a lap very soon also.