N0 vs N1 Cup 2 for 991 GT3
08-05-2018, 11:51 PM
#1
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N0 vs N1 Cup 2 for 991 GT3
I had a chance to try the N1 Cup 2 with the 991.1 GT3 this weekend, and didn't really notice any obvious difference compared to the N0. Grip and feel don't seem any better. What have your experiences with the N0 vs N1 been? Assuming that Michelin engineered the tire to make it better, in what way(s) is it supposed to be better?
Overall, I'm not really digging the Cup 2. Better than the Dunlops, and usable in the wet, but the I like the RE71R my wife has on the GT4 better. REALLY wish the RE71R were available in the GT3 sizes.
Overall, I'm not really digging the Cup 2. Better than the Dunlops, and usable in the wet, but the I like the RE71R my wife has on the GT4 better. REALLY wish the RE71R were available in the GT3 sizes.
08-06-2018, 12:01 AM
#2
Race Director
The sidewall sort of buldges out on the N1’s. The look isn’t great. Not enough miles to say anything else.
08-06-2018, 12:09 AM
#3
I had a chance to try the N1 Cup 2 with the 991.1 GT3 this weekend, and didn't really notice any obvious difference compared to the N0. Grip and feel don't seem any better. What have your experiences with the N0 vs N1 been? Assuming that Michelin engineered the tire to make it better, in what way(s) is it supposed to be better?
Overall, I'm not really digging the Cup 2. Better than the Dunlops, and usable in the wet, but the I like the RE71R my wife has on the GT4 better. REALLY wish the RE71R were available in the GT3 sizes.
Overall, I'm not really digging the Cup 2. Better than the Dunlops, and usable in the wet, but the I like the RE71R my wife has on the GT4 better. REALLY wish the RE71R were available in the GT3 sizes.
08-06-2018, 12:18 AM
#4
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I got the N1's a month ago and took them to the track, I felt they had less overall grip then my Dunlop's. However the N1 were more consistent, didn't fall off as much as the Dunlop's.
08-06-2018, 01:18 AM
#5
Nordschleife Master
I had a chance to try the N1 Cup 2 with the 991.1 GT3 this weekend, and didn't really notice any obvious difference compared to the N0. Grip and feel don't seem any better. What have your experiences with the N0 vs N1 been? Assuming that Michelin engineered the tire to make it better, in what way(s) is it supposed to be better?
Overall, I'm not really digging the Cup 2. Better than the Dunlops, and usable in the wet, but the I like the RE71R my wife has on the GT4 better. REALLY wish the RE71R were available in the GT3 sizes.
Overall, I'm not really digging the Cup 2. Better than the Dunlops, and usable in the wet, but the I like the RE71R my wife has on the GT4 better. REALLY wish the RE71R were available in the GT3 sizes.
08-06-2018, 04:46 AM
#6
Interested in this too
08-06-2018, 10:30 AM
#7
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I went on Tire Rack to see what the other options are with the 20" wheels.
Trofeo R is very expensive, and when I tried them a few years ago with the Cayman R, the grip was only good for the first day or two, so I think they're out.
I noticed that Hoosier R7 is available in the correct size. I'm not keen on using a tire I can't drive to and from the track, but have long wondered what the GT3 would be like with a proper cheater tire. Has anyone tried the R7 and had any experience with the warranty being denied (or not)?
Trofeo R is very expensive, and when I tried them a few years ago with the Cayman R, the grip was only good for the first day or two, so I think they're out.
I noticed that Hoosier R7 is available in the correct size. I'm not keen on using a tire I can't drive to and from the track, but have long wondered what the GT3 would be like with a proper cheater tire. Has anyone tried the R7 and had any experience with the warranty being denied (or not)?
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08-06-2018, 11:04 AM
#8
Race Director
I went on Tire Rack to see what the other options are with the 20" wheels.
Trofeo R is very expensive, and when I tried them a few years ago with the Cayman R, the grip was only good for the first day or two, so I think they're out.
I noticed that Hoosier R7 is available in the correct size. I'm not keen on using a tire I can't drive to and from the track, but have long wondered what the GT3 would be like with a proper cheater tire. Has anyone tried the R7 and had any experience with the warranty being denied (or not)?
Trofeo R is very expensive, and when I tried them a few years ago with the Cayman R, the grip was only good for the first day or two, so I think they're out.
I noticed that Hoosier R7 is available in the correct size. I'm not keen on using a tire I can't drive to and from the track, but have long wondered what the GT3 would be like with a proper cheater tire. Has anyone tried the R7 and had any experience with the warranty being denied (or not)?
08-06-2018, 11:11 AM
#9
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Have only tried Cup 2’s and Dunlops but i did have a conversation with someone and i have read that tires offering much better grip are correspondingly much harder on the car. If you do run non oem tires i would expect stuff to wear out much quicker, and Porsche to deny warranty claims for it. Just what i have heard and read.
The car's G-meter records G-forces, and if they're getting consistently up in high 1.X, that would clearly indicate a tire with more grip than OEM. I don't know if the G-meter records a history of G-forces, vs clearly the history when the meter is reset. I'm also not clear on which components Porsche is concerned about if the G-forces are higher - engine, suspension, bushings, brakes, etc.
08-06-2018, 11:25 AM
#10
Race Director
I tried the Dunlops on a couple other cars in the past, and while the grip was as good as the Cup 2, they disintegrated rather quickly when driven hard. IMO, not a track tire.
The car's G-meter records G-forces, and if they're getting consistently up in high 1.X, that would clearly indicate a tire with more grip than OEM. I don't know if the G-meter records a history of G-forces, vs clearly the history when the meter is reset. I'm also not clear on which components Porsche is concerned about if the G-forces are higher - engine, suspension, bushings, brakes, etc.
The car's G-meter records G-forces, and if they're getting consistently up in high 1.X, that would clearly indicate a tire with more grip than OEM. I don't know if the G-meter records a history of G-forces, vs clearly the history when the meter is reset. I'm also not clear on which components Porsche is concerned about if the G-forces are higher - engine, suspension, bushings, brakes, etc.
08-06-2018, 11:38 AM
#11
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Dunlops are great tires for the street imo. They get warm faster, and the car feels like a go-cart. Getting and keeping heat into Cup 2’s on the street was harder for me, but these same characteristics make the Cup 2’s better track tires. Cup 2’s lasted longer. 15,000 vs 12,500 miles. From what i understand it is pretty obvious when you have used cheater tires. Beats the car up pretty good. Again, no experience personally, but people i trust who would know said the cars using these tires were pretty beat up when you start inspecting them. Don’t even need to look at G meter.
08-06-2018, 11:47 AM
#12
Race Director
Have you heard any specifics on what parts of the car get beat up? Other than the engine, my warranty will expire next year, so that's the only warranty coverage I'm concerned about getting denied. For all other components, I'm willing to replace more frequently as needed. Though, another question which comes up with grippier tires is how well the springs and dampers will handle that.
08-06-2018, 12:07 PM
#13
I've only run cup2s on track but know others that have used Hoosiers in 19in sizes. No issues that I have heard. The engine is dry sump so should not have oiling issues (beyond the known concerns). The manual states that slicks must not be used due to chassis and body components. There has been some debate about whether R7 is a slick in Porsche's terms. My understanding is a true slick is something like a Pirelli DH. The R7 would likely put more load on hubs, bearings, CL nuts but these are scheduled for replacement regularly. Unknown if the schedule should change. I would expect the 6k/12k schedule to be conservative. The .1 GT3 still has lots of rubber components in the suspension and I'd expect them to flex more and wear faster. Can of course be replaced with rose/heim jointed parts. RWS might be an area to be concerned too. I can't recall if there is a lot of difference in the mounting points on the chassis between GT3 and Cup. I recall Elephant racing did a comparo video. May be worth checking their site.
For a hack like me, Cup2 is enough. Would jump on RE71s if available in our sizes though.
For a hack like me, Cup2 is enough. Would jump on RE71s if available in our sizes though.
08-06-2018, 12:13 PM
#14
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I've only run cup2s on track but know others that have used Hoosiers in 19in sizes. No issues that I have heard. The engine is dry sump so should not have oiling issues (beyond the known concerns). The manual states that slicks must not be used due to chassis and body components. There has been some debate about whether R7 is a slick in Porsche's terms. My understanding is a true slick is something like a Pirelli DH. The R7 would likely put more load on hubs, bearings, CL nuts but these are scheduled for replacement regularly. Unknown if the schedule should change. I would expect the 6k/12k schedule to be conservative. The .1 GT3 still has lots of rubber components in the suspension and I'd expect them to flex more and wear faster. Can of course be replaced with rose/heim jointed parts. RWS might be an area to be concerned too. I can't recall if there is a lot of difference in the mounting points on the chassis between GT3 and Cup. I recall Elephant racing did a comparo video. May be worth checking their site.
For a hack like me, Cup2 is enough. Would jump on RE71s if available in our sizes though.
For a hack like me, Cup2 is enough. Would jump on RE71s if available in our sizes though.
08-06-2018, 12:24 PM
#15
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Grip of Hoosier is only marginally better then a fresh MPSC2.
Its faster but just as an FYI may car found about 3 seconds from MPSC2 to Hoosier at Sebring (2:15-2:12), BUT a lot of that speed comes from better gearing 19"-21" and a gigantic drop in Center Of Gravity and being able to drop the nose on the ground.
Ceramic rotors keep the front tires from overheating as much and that' alone I tested to be good for 0.5sec. With the nose on the ground, I can run Max wing, diffuser and Gurney lap and still no understeer.
I also respect the manual and have replaced the bearings, center locks, upright, etc as per manual.
I would love to try the RE71's but they only go to 295 I think.
Its faster but just as an FYI may car found about 3 seconds from MPSC2 to Hoosier at Sebring (2:15-2:12), BUT a lot of that speed comes from better gearing 19"-21" and a gigantic drop in Center Of Gravity and being able to drop the nose on the ground.
Ceramic rotors keep the front tires from overheating as much and that' alone I tested to be good for 0.5sec. With the nose on the ground, I can run Max wing, diffuser and Gurney lap and still no understeer.
I also respect the manual and have replaced the bearings, center locks, upright, etc as per manual.
I would love to try the RE71's but they only go to 295 I think.