Double clutch or Single clutch?
#46
Rennlist Member
I used to heel toe my vintage race car...had to rebuild the trans (915) often
put a trans cooler in the car, and temp gage in trans. Cooler helped but in 90 min enduros it still got too hot
learned to double clutch, and the need for a trans cooler was gone...I’d run seasons on a 915 year box with 380ish hp thru it
if u learn to do it correct u can skip shift without upsetting the car...I’d go 5th to 1st
used to to race my friends 996 cup and double clutched it
it does help a transmission last a long time...much longer than Heel toe
it’s no slower...I can show video of how quick u can do it with proper muscle memory
put a trans cooler in the car, and temp gage in trans. Cooler helped but in 90 min enduros it still got too hot
learned to double clutch, and the need for a trans cooler was gone...I’d run seasons on a 915 year box with 380ish hp thru it
if u learn to do it correct u can skip shift without upsetting the car...I’d go 5th to 1st
used to to race my friends 996 cup and double clutched it
it does help a transmission last a long time...much longer than Heel toe
it’s no slower...I can show video of how quick u can do it with proper muscle memory
#47
Rennlist Member
I’m going to have to go on record to say that double-clutching would almost have to certainly be slower than single clutching. Because: introducing an extra step, even if that step by itself doesn’t increase latency, has the potential to increase latency over the long haul. This is why a manual trans car can be just as fast as PDK, but overall, PDK will win in the end.
Regardless, these small numbers are just that. Seconds or milliseconds. Yet we chose manual over PDK, so might as well double clutch if it makes you happy.
Regardless, these small numbers are just that. Seconds or milliseconds. Yet we chose manual over PDK, so might as well double clutch if it makes you happy.
#48
Drifting
I’m going to have to go on record to say that double-clutching would almost have to certainly be slower than single clutching. Because: introducing an extra step, even if that step by itself doesn’t increase latency, has the potential to increase latency over the long haul. This is why a manual trans car can be just as fast as PDK, but overall, PDK will win in the end.
Regardless, these small numbers are just that. Seconds or milliseconds. Yet we chose manual over PDK, so might as well double clutch if it makes you happy.
Regardless, these small numbers are just that. Seconds or milliseconds. Yet we chose manual over PDK, so might as well double clutch if it makes you happy.
#49
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I’m going to have to go on record to say that double-clutching would almost have to certainly be slower than single clutching. Because: introducing an extra step, even if that step by itself doesn’t increase latency, has the potential to increase latency over the long haul. This is why a manual trans car can be just as fast as PDK, but overall, PDK will win in the end.
Regardless, these small numbers are just that. Seconds or milliseconds. Yet we chose manual over PDK, so might as well double clutch if it makes you happy.
Regardless, these small numbers are just that. Seconds or milliseconds. Yet we chose manual over PDK, so might as well double clutch if it makes you happy.
BTW, I am not suggesting this is necessary with a new GT3 (quite the contrary, unless going into first gear from 30mph), but if someone wanted to do it, the lost time would not be a reason not to do so...
#50
Rennlist Member
^^ Sure, if you are braking at 135mph off the main straight at Road America in 5th, and downshifting to 3rd to enter turn 1 at say 65mph. Because there’s plenty of time to brake and shift, etc. A skilled driver might even take a drag off the cigarette here and lose zero time, lol.
But what about much shorter time duration of braking events, such as a single downshift and a light tap of the brakes to get through ‘the kink’ or similar turn? If the time duration allotted during the event is long, we have lots of time to complete double clutching. If the time is short, we might be pressed.
Also, I’m suggesting that humans won’t perfectly execute all maneauvers exactly every time. Meaning that there’s room for error would could add latency through the course of an entire 30-mins worth of laps...
I feel like the exact same debate/argument we are having is not unlike left-foot braking versus right-foot braking. There are those that swear that right foot braking does not add any latency. And many resist left-foot braking. However, those that have tried both and actually spent the time to master both usually come away with the experience that however small the advantage might be, left foot braking might be a tad faster. And even on some tracks where some folks right-foot brake 99% of the time, there are some turns that one would actually left-foot brake on a specific turn to gain a slight advantage there.
To-MAY-toe, To-MAH-toe I guess. But I just don’t see any fast racar drivers or even faster track car drivers double clutching.
But what about much shorter time duration of braking events, such as a single downshift and a light tap of the brakes to get through ‘the kink’ or similar turn? If the time duration allotted during the event is long, we have lots of time to complete double clutching. If the time is short, we might be pressed.
Also, I’m suggesting that humans won’t perfectly execute all maneauvers exactly every time. Meaning that there’s room for error would could add latency through the course of an entire 30-mins worth of laps...
I feel like the exact same debate/argument we are having is not unlike left-foot braking versus right-foot braking. There are those that swear that right foot braking does not add any latency. And many resist left-foot braking. However, those that have tried both and actually spent the time to master both usually come away with the experience that however small the advantage might be, left foot braking might be a tad faster. And even on some tracks where some folks right-foot brake 99% of the time, there are some turns that one would actually left-foot brake on a specific turn to gain a slight advantage there.
To-MAY-toe, To-MAH-toe I guess. But I just don’t see any fast racar drivers or even faster track car drivers double clutching.
#51
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I’ve passed some quick modern track cars in my ‘73 while doing it...
But the average modern quick track car gets quicker every year and the fast vintage stuff does not (aside from improvements in tires)...
#52
GT3 player par excellence
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Lifetime Rennlist
Member
old car double clutch
new gT car no use
if your gt3 gear box dies b/c you are single clutching, you are doing way too many other things wrong.
new gT car no use
if your gt3 gear box dies b/c you are single clutching, you are doing way too many other things wrong.
#53
Rennlist Member
If you spent time with vintage racing, you’d see some very quick drivers doing it
I’ve passed some quick modern track cars in my ‘73 while doing it...
But the average modern quick track car gets quicker every year and the fast vintage stuff does not (aside from improvements in tires)...
I wonder how much faster you would be passing that modern track car if we switched drivers, lol.
Thank goodness for tire technology and skilled drivers keeping the vintage stuff alive. I hope it never goes away
#54
Nordschleife Master
Your stalling? Like from 2nd to 3rd etc...(hard to understand how this is happening) or from a stop? If the latter it has 0 to do with double clutching. If the former stop trying to double clutch ... you don’t need it. Just practice single clutching and drive. That’s what synchronized are for.
Ditto what Mooty said.
You asked. There’s your answer. Beyond this if you still insist on double clutching we can’t help you.
Ditto what Mooty said.
You asked. There’s your answer. Beyond this if you still insist on double clutching we can’t help you.
Last edited by Waxer; 07-13-2018 at 10:33 PM.