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.2GT3 for a 2016 GT3/RS

 
Old 12-31-2017, 08:43 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by 0to60
Yes solid lifter valve train superior to the .1 RS motor, your car is limited to 8800 RPM for durability issues. The new .2 GT3 has similar downforce without having a clown car appearance, huge wing and plastic fender vents. The salmon colored car is a terrible color ( subjective opinion ) You can keep your magnesium roof and $14,000 fenders. The front facia in the new GT3 is better looking, without excessive nose length. This RS is an RS is means absolutely nothing to me, and is reassurance to justify the ownership. The new GT3 does everything the .1 RS does and you get a new car for the same price. The new GT3 is stealth looking without the over the top appearance. Being able to spec my car is a better value for me instead of taking
another's 2 year old used RS configured by the original owner. The standard palate of colors was a joke unless you were able to PTS the car. I am not sure what a .1 RS does that the new .2 GT3 does not. FWIW i saw a Lava orange, AKA salmon and the color was washed out. Either go with red or orange, but not lava. Porsche is all about evolution and the updated cars are an improvement over the prior offerings. The .1 RS especially used has nothing over a brand new GT3. All that matters is that you are happy with the .1 RS and its color.Attachment 1273709
Every engine is limited for durability. And the .2 GT3 doesn't have remotely close to the same downforce as the .1 RS. Those references were made when compared to the 997 RS. Still impressive for not having "clownish" looks... I take you also don't care for Lava orange? Hard to tell.

The .2 GT3 seems to be an excellent car which will hopefully spawn an even better RS. And so it goes.
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Old 12-31-2017, 08:45 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by goin2drt View Post
That's weird. You would choose the faster evolution yet the manual is slower in every way but you would pick that. So would you pick the new GT3 over an older RS because all the mags say it is faster and "better" but yet you would pick the slower of the new GT3's. I am confused with the logic..
Yes, as I recognize it may be the last of getting an N/A manual GT3 car... and I'm confident on an actual road course... I'd be within a tenth or two if I was driving a PDK car, and faster than most others. The PDK's greatest benefit is at the drag strip... and I didn't buy a GT3 to drag race, I've had other cars for that.

Best Regards,
Dave
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:05 PM
  #63  
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FWIW at Sebring it seems an .1RS is about as fast as a .2GT3.

Both like to be short shifted a bit, so RPM limit is still not very relevant.
RS has more rubber, more downforce but also more drag on the long straight.

I call performance even. In terms of value, history repeats itself and an RS is an RS..
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:07 PM
  #64  
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So it was written so let it be done, the answer is always RS....718. 72, SC, 964, 968, 993, 996, 997 and 991 on and on.

Until the RSR arrives, then it's last week's fish. lol
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:50 PM
  #65  
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And a Motorsport .2GT3 engine is a Motorsport engine
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Old 12-31-2017, 11:52 PM
  #66  
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I sure hope the .2 GT3 engine will be as reliable as everyone says it is.

Time will tell...
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Old 01-01-2018, 12:26 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by bigskyGT4 View Post
I sure hope the .2 GT3 engine will be as reliable as everyone says it is.

Time will tell...
This assumes that the 1.1 GT3 RS engine is reliable, long term.

No real basis for that assumption.

At least for the 1.1. GT3, you have that 10/100 warranty. So regardless of reliability, it's at least covered for mechanical mishaps for that period of time.

Same cannot be said for the 1.1 GT3 RS powerplant.
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:02 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by TRAKCAR View Post
FWIW at Sebring it seems an .1RS is about as fast as a .2GT3.

Both like to be short shifted a bit, so RPM limit is still not very relevant.
RS has more rubber, more downforce but also more drag on the long straight.

I call performance even. In terms of value, history repeats itself and an RS is an RS..
See there it is again. That damn RS is an RS thing!

Mr. Skittles your not getting it. But that’s fine. The important thing is you think you do. Stay with that.

lol
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:20 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by ipse dixit View Post
This assumes that the 1.1 GT3 RS engine is reliable, long term.

No real basis for that assumption.

At least for the 1.1. GT3, you have that 10/100 warranty. So regardless of reliability, it's at least covered for mechanical mishaps for that period of time.

Same cannot be said for the 1.1 GT3 RS powerplant.
Sure there is. RS has now been in service for 3 years. 3.8 issues started showing up prior to 3 years in service. RS run hard by many owners with tons of track miles. Porsche press RS (poor thing) flogged relentlessly with over 30,000 tortured miles. RS engine ran in the ‘15/16 GT3R flawlessly. .1 4.0 used in two PAG flag ship cars (RS and R) in midst of 3.8 issues, F. Walliser repsenting to the Concerned owners group what the 3.8 issue was (FF mfg defect)and it has 0 to do with the 4.0, zero reported issues with RS or R, RS have from what we have seen been reliable as anvils, PAG GT engines have been hydraulic valved for generations.

what data do you have for the assumption the new .2 will be reliable long term?

btw define long term.
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:38 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by SCCAForums View Post
Yes, as I recognize it may be the last of getting an N/A manual GT3 car... and I'm confident on an actual road course... I'd be within a tenth or two if I was driving a PDK car, and faster than most others. The PDK's greatest benefit is at the drag strip... and I didn't buy a GT3 to drag race, I've had other cars for that.

Best Regards,
Dave
PDK is substantially quicker than an mt car. Every straight is a drag strip. PDK also allows you to focus more attention on other tasks and the risk of shifting errors.

No no way can you drive a mt GT3 within a “tenth” or two of a PDK apples to apples. A second or two.. maybe. But a second or two is huge lap after lap.
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Old 01-01-2018, 01:41 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Waxer View Post


PDK is substantially quicker than an mt car. Every straight is a drag strip. PDK also allows you to focus more attention on other tasks and the risk of shifting errors.

No no way can you drive a mt GT3 within a “tenth” or two of a PDK apples to apples. A second or two.. maybe. But a second or two is huge lap after lap. It would never be a second or more, that is a ton of time.

Waxer, I appreciate your opinion, we can agree to disagree... I've been road racing (and winning) in cars for 20+ years... Not all tracks are 13 miles long... The PDK offers no advantages downshifting... I will guarantee you I"m within a couple of tenths between PDK and Manual on most tracks (ie 2.5 mile courses). And I believe OrthoJoe's 'Manual' thread is going to also prove how much faster one can be in a Manual car.

Skip to about 1:50 for the quick lap on warmed up tires:

Many times my 'upshifts' are in areas that I'd be 'lifting' to allow the front to settle. I don't want to take the thread off topic to show a bunch of my race videos... but there are plenty on my you tube channel... you also have to recognize the tenth or two (my opinion) in shifting speed... how much of that is made up for in lugging around 40 less lbs in the manual? If you can truly drive a manual, the differences are less then you may think.

Locally, we'll get some PDK cars out, and I'll do back to back runs between manual and PDK and post the results.

Best Regards,
Dave
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Old 01-01-2018, 02:06 PM
  #72  
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It continues to amaze me that this argument (PDK vs. Manual) persists. The article below not only answers the question (yes, the PDK is absolutely more efficient, faster and the better transmission) but the manual pulls at the heart strings of those who pine for the old...and Porsche (marketing) is brilliant at converting that emotion into cold hard cash!!

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...sche-is-crazy/

Here's the key paragraph..."There's not that much difference between the old GT3 and the new one, so if Porsche had simply introduced the car and mentioned the twenty-five extra horsepower, I doubt that anybody's pulse would have climbed above rest. The answer to this dilemma? Bring the manual transmission back! Now you can sell stick-shift GT3s to all the people who missed out on a 911R, and all the people who wanted a stick-shift in their pre-facelift GT3."

Same driver, back-to-back in a .2 GT3 Manual and then in a PDK car around a 2.5 mile track will be 1-2 secs FASTER in the PDK equipped .2 GT3. Is there any doubt?
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Old 01-01-2018, 02:12 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by SCCAForums View Post
This is comical... the .2 GT3 is faster in EVERY WAY than a .1RS... and a .2 RS will be faster than a .2 GT3 in EVERY WAY.

You can like the .2 GT3 or the .1 RS... but don't confuse the fact... same driver in each car... the new GT3 is the quicker car... and has proven so in every mag test and by Porsche themselves.

Sport auto did beat the new .2 GT3 with the Manthey Racing RS... but we know that car wasn't near stock. And for those that aren't actually tracking every weekend... it's tough to choose a 2 year old car over a more refined more in tune (6MT) vehicle.

The great thing is we all have choices... I would always choose a faster new evolution GT3 over an older RS if I have the means to do so. By Adding the Manual... it's a no brainer, getting back as close to 'pure' as you can get with Porsche and still all of today's great advancements.

But when it comes time to choose to get a new RS... I realize I'll have to give up the manual transmission if you want the latest and greatest naturally aspirated product offered by Porsche.

It's no coincidence so many RS' are sitting for sale in my opinion.

Best Regards,
Dave
Car mags. LOL. Umm. Actually not true in reality. Both cars have near identical power outputs one is wearing sticker more advanced MPCS's. Sooo...where do you think the difference lies?

Put the same shoes on both RS has advantange at extreme due to superior aero and track.

Just say'n.
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Old 01-01-2018, 02:14 PM
  #74  
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Dave: Would love to see it. Prove me wrong. No issues. I'll admit when I'm wrong. Do it every day with the wife. Then you can teach me cause I clearly am not as good as you based on your experience. No snark. LOL.

I would however think PAG has done the analysis and back to back and they are convinced the PDK is the better box for track times. One final issue you didn't account for. PDK removes alot of the risk for the "missed" shift or grabbing the wrong gear. Also allows you to direct more attention to other tasks.

If MT's were just as fast and just as good I think pro drivers in WEC, WeatherTec etc...would be demanding them.
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Old 01-01-2018, 02:31 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Akunob View Post
It continues to amaze me that this argument (PDK vs. Manual) persists. The article below not only answers the question (yes, the PDK is absolutely more efficient, faster and the better transmission) but the manual pulls at the heart strings of those who pine for the old...and Porsche (marketing) is brilliant at converting that emotion into cold hard cash!!

Same driver, back-to-back in a .2 GT3 Manual and then in a PDK car around a 2.5 mile track will be 1-2 secs FASTER in the PDK equipped .2 GT3. Is there any doubt?
Yes, I seriously doubt this.... and anyone who thinks a PDK vs. Manual is 1 to 2 seconds faster on an actual road course shouldn't be racing. Fighting for 'tenths' at the limit of the car, is difficult enough... If my Race cars could pick up 2 seconds just going to a PDK, I'd spend the $15K every day. PDK vs. Manual, for someone that knows how to drive is tenths, best case... not seconds, sorry.

Originally Posted by Waxer View Post
Car mags. LOL. Umm. Actually not true in reality. Both cars have near identical power outputs one is wearing sticker more advanced MPCS's. Sooo...where do you think the difference lies?

Put the same shoes on both RS has advantange at extreme due to superior aero and track.

Just say'n.
I think this is a good comment... everyone assumes the new tire is stickier than the previous gen... but the RS get's a bigger front tire, and more downforce, yet was still beat by the .2 GT3? If we don't compare them 'as they are'... then does the new GT3 get to run 265's up front and 325's in the back?

Originally Posted by Waxer View Post
Dave: Would love to see it. Prove me wrong. No issues. Then you can teach me cause I clearly am not as good as you. LOL. One final issue you didn't account for. PDK removes a lot of the risk for the "missed" shift or grabbing the wrong gear.
Waxer, I completely agree with your last statement, PDK will be faster (my opinion, slightly) and absolutely removes the element of making a mistake, so if the car is to be a 'dedicated' race car... and not seeing the street, PDK is absolutely the way to go, and why all race cars are going this direction.

I definitely am looking forward to showing the true difference here... and if it's 1 to 2 seconds... I'll be ordering one for my race car. As typically we're fighting to win races by tenths' of a second. Regardless, I'll look to post times later this spring, I only have local PDK cars that are .1's, so wouldn't be apples to apples yet, I'm sure the .2 PDK's will be on track with us by March.

And to end with another quote:
C/D: The PDK is faster, too, right?
AP: Not as much as many people would think. The launch, definitely. But who is launching this car on a regular basis? It’s your driveshaft and tires. Do you want to replace them every other week? And if the car is in gear, and you are side by side with a PDK driver—I don’t just believe in numbers, I want to see it—rolling at, say, 20 mph and you’re good with a manual, which is 17 kilos [37 pounds] lighter, you won’t see that much of a lead from the PDK car until about 160 mph.

Best Regards,
Dave
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