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I was going to ask this under the recent Fresno thread, but I wanted to be respectful of the gentleman who took delivery of the Mexico Blue 991R. That truly is a fantastic car (the matching spyder, too) and I hope he enjoys it.
That being said, I do have a question.
About a year ago, one of the very first 9111R's to be flipped was listed on consignment at Broward. Everyone involved -- the dealer flipping it, the 918 VIP buyer selling it, and the potential buyer of it -- were vilified in this forum. Everyone was outraged that someone was flipping their 991R.
Now, Fresno appears to flip a Paint to Sample 911R that was delivered new not too long ago, and everyone here on the forum applauds the transaction. Clearly, there were only a very small handful of individuals who were given PTS allocations on a 911R. In fact, some 911R owners were told it wasn't even possible on the R. To see an individual FLIP a PTS 911R bring even more gravity to the transaction.
What's the difference? Is the difference that Fresno supposedly did it for free? So if the dealer (or whoever the middle man is) doesn't make any money on it, everything's fine? Additionally, I thought PCNA really frowns on dealers and owners flipping the R's. The original owner of that Mexico Blue R will get kicked out of the program over this.
So why are there two starkly different reactions to a 911R being flipped?
On a different subject... Martin... you mentioned that you felt proud if people put you on ignore. I just don't understand how someone could be proud of that.
Clearly you have not been on RL long enough. There is no difference but on RL many people complain about the very thing then that they will commend and support. You never really know. It is like working with someone that is bipolar. You never know what you will get.
I was going to ask this under the recent Fresno thread, but I wanted to be respectful of the gentleman who took delivery of the Mexico Blue 991R. That truly is a fantastic car (the matching spyder, too) and I hope he enjoys it.
That being said, I do have a question.
About a year ago, one of the very first 9111R's to be flipped was listed on consignment at Broward. Everyone involved -- the dealer flipping it, the 918 VIP buyer selling it, and the potential buyer of it -- were vilified in this forum. Everyone was outraged that someone was flipping their 991R.
Now, Fresno appears to flip a Paint to Sample 911R that was delivered new not too long ago, and everyone here on the forum applauds the transaction. Clearly, there were only a very small handful of individuals who were given PTS allocations on a 911R. In fact, some 911R owners were told it wasn't even possible on the R. To see an individual FLIP a PTS 911R bring even more gravity to the transaction.
What's the difference? Is the difference that Fresno supposedly did it for free? So if the dealer (or whoever the middle man is) doesn't make any money on it, everything's fine? Additionally, I thought PCNA really frowns on dealers and owners flipping the R's. The original owner of that Mexico Blue R will get kicked out of the program over this.
So why are there two starkly different reactions to a 911R being flipped?
On a different subject... Martin... you mentioned that you felt proud if people put you on ignore. I just don't understand how someone could be proud of that.
Originally Posted by goin2drt
Clearly you have not been on RL long enough. There is no difference but on RL many people complain about the very thing then that they will commend and support. You never really know. It is like working with someone that is bipolar. You never know what you will get.
The exact same thing goes for ADM's.
Right.
Cuz, you know the guy who is notorious for ranting about "stealerships" charging ADMs? Yeah, that guy ... "usctrojanGT3"
And, yeah, usctrojanGT3 is the same guy who paid a dealer, ahem, stealership markup for his 991 GT3RS.
Hey kettle, someone named "the pot" is holding on line 1, saying something about "being black".
I was going to ask this under the recent Fresno thread, but I wanted to be respectful of the gentleman who took delivery of the Mexico Blue 991R. That truly is a fantastic car (the matching spyder, too) and I hope he enjoys it.
That being said, I do have a question.
About a year ago, one of the very first 9111R's to be flipped was listed on consignment at Broward. Everyone involved -- the dealer flipping it, the 918 VIP buyer selling it, and the potential buyer of it -- were vilified in this forum. Everyone was outraged that someone was flipping their 991R.
Now, Fresno appears to flip a Paint to Sample 911R that was delivered new not too long ago, and everyone here on the forum applauds the transaction. Clearly, there were only a very small handful of individuals who were given PTS allocations on a 911R. In fact, some 911R owners were told it wasn't even possible on the R. To see an individual FLIP a PTS 911R bring even more gravity to the transaction.
What's the difference? Is the difference that Fresno supposedly did it for free? So if the dealer (or whoever the middle man is) doesn't make any money on it, everything's fine? Additionally, I thought PCNA really frowns on dealers and owners flipping the R's. The original owner of that Mexico Blue R will get kicked out of the program over this.
So why are there two starkly different reactions to a 911R being flipped?
On a different subject... Martin... you mentioned that you felt proud if people put you on ignore. I just don't understand how someone could be proud of that.
Why do you persist taking this to a personal level. Who wants to read your analytics.
You were going to short Tesla last week and take out a loan ... hope you read my post and listened.
Seriously if you want to have a conversation pm Martin you add zip!
Cuz, you know the guy who is notorious for ranting about "stealerships" charging ADMs? Yeah, that guy ... "usctrojanGT3"
And, yeah, usctrojanGT3 is the same guy who paid a dealer, ahem, stealership markup for his 991 GT3RS.
I love how people assume things...kind like people assumed that I was a whiny loser since I was bashing the ADM pricing. For your information, I DID NOT buy the car directly from a dealership....I paid the market price at the time (obviously over MSRP) from CJ with eyes wide open because I wanted the car and because I could afford to buy it. Very easy and fair transaction.
I was going to ask this under the recent Fresno thread, but I wanted to be respectful of the gentleman who took delivery of the Mexico Blue 991R. That truly is a fantastic car (the matching spyder, too) and I hope he enjoys it.
That being said, I do have a question.
About a year ago, one of the very first 9111R's to be flipped was listed on consignment at Broward. Everyone involved -- the dealer flipping it, the 918 VIP buyer selling it, and the potential buyer of it -- were vilified in this forum. Everyone was outraged that someone was flipping their 991R.
Now, Fresno appears to flip a Paint to Sample 911R that was delivered new not too long ago, and everyone here on the forum applauds the transaction. Clearly, there were only a very small handful of individuals who were given PTS allocations on a 911R. In fact, some 911R owners were told it wasn't even possible on the R. To see an individual FLIP a PTS 911R bring even more gravity to the transaction.
What's the difference? Is the difference that Fresno supposedly did it for free? So if the dealer (or whoever the middle man is) doesn't make any money on it, everything's fine? Additionally, I thought PCNA really frowns on dealers and owners flipping the R's. The original owner of that Mexico Blue R will get kicked out of the program over this.
So why are there two starkly different reactions to a 911R being flipped?
On a different subject... Martin... you mentioned that you felt proud if people put you on ignore. I just don't understand how someone could be proud of that.
If people don't like what I'm about or what I have to say then I've touched a nerve so yeah they should put me on ignore. God forbid that they get butt hurt from what I have to say or because they take the interweb a bit too serious. At least with me, people know that I am passionate, I stand up for what I believe, and speak my mind.
What's the difference between the Boward transaction and CJ's transaction....easy, CJ is a true car match marker where people reach out to him asking for his help in finding what they like and with his vast network he can make things happen by putting a buyer and seller together even if he doesn't make anything or much on it because he's about building a long-term relationship with that customer which will yield more repeat business and referral business.
And the start of this thread adds so much, yep zip.
It helps people to avoid Walters Porsche as they have entered the stealership zone. Even if I steer one person away from a stealer to a good guy dealer, I've done my job.
I appreciate the points our Cetacean
friend is making. And I, for one, am
deeply interested in continuing to read
his 'analytics' (as you call it) in our
forum. I think his observations on
the 'Mexico Blue' 911R & Porsche of
Fresno are very valid. And I find the
excessive 'effusive gushing' over certain
Porsche dealers that claim to wear 'white
hats' might not pass the smell test in the
long run! Dig deeper & you will eventually
become disappointed with these 'Local
Heroes' - whether they reside in Houston,
Marin, Dallas or Fresno. In the end, they
are dealers & will act in their own best
interests...and not necessarily your own!
This topics needs to be discussed openly
& intelligently. And I think 'Chicago' is
doing us a favor by raising these points!
*
Originally Posted by nuvolari612
Why do you persist taking this to a
personal level...you add zip!
So now who is taking this to a
very 'personal level'!
But then that is not the first time,
is it?
Originally Posted by nuvolari612
You assume a lot - setting people
up by asking questions and then
judging their thoughts it's no surprise
you chose "Chicago Whale".
We are all car guys insults aren't
necessary but if you wish to go
to the gutter - let's go!
My guess by your insults - Chicago Guppy
don't mean to be rude nor do I
care but if you want to play fair.
This thread has become quite amusing on so many fronts.
To rewind to the original post which was in response to the following ad in the classifieds, I can see the need for criticizing this dealer.
At the end of the day, people can do whatever they want with their cash and dealers can conduct themselves whatever way they want. I could care less. I don't have to buy anything, nor do I have to support dealers I don't like. It's a free market.
With all these arguments, there always is a bit of hypocrisy though. I can understand both sides.
To play devils advocate here, what if Auto Gallery posted this car for sale in the classifieds??
They'd literally be crucified
Just opening up the discussion ..... These cars selling whatever the market will support is fine, but you really can't say one dealer is in the wrong for doing it while another one gets a free pass. Just trying to be fair here.
From everything I've seen, Porsche of Fresno is doing a great job. Quite the accomplishment for CJ, but just saying that the judgement rules should be consistent here.
I appreciate the points our Cetacean
friend is making. And I, for one, am
deeply interested in continuing to read
his 'analytics' (as you call it) in our
forum. I think his observations on
the 'Mexico Blue' 911R & Porsche of
Fresno are very valid. And I find the
excessive 'effusive gushing' over certain
Porsche dealers that claim to wear 'white
hats' might not pass the smell test in the
long run! Dig deeper & you will eventually
become disappointed with these 'Local
Heroes' - whether they reside in Houston,
Marin, Dallas or Fresno. In the end, they
are dealers & will act in their own best
interests...and not necessarily your own!
This topics needs to be discussed openly
& intelligently. And I think 'Chicago' is
doing us a favor by raising these points!
*
So now who is taking this to a
very 'personal level'!
But then that is not the first time,
is it?
I am rooting for Le Guppy!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Back in foggy Carmel Point
You rooting for guppy - did you short Tesla last week.
I think you and a select few have an axe to grind and you can't wait to swing it - reality is it's dull.
Nothing makes sense - Chicago Whale doesn't offer one buying experience I posted my experience with AG.
Curious what good you think cheering on a JV class clown - cars talk bs walks it's a car forum and all I see from Chicago Whale is bs.
anybody who pays ADM is causing a problem, just because others do is no excuse, a franchised dealer should not play these games with new allocations, the secondary market is another issue, if you own it you sell it for what you want, I would sell/trade back to the dealer if they sold me at MSRP, they can sell it for whatever as its "used' an increase in supply will fix this problem, if supply increases or fortunes change, those that "stuck it to us" will be remembered. Driving these cars are fun, thinking about them is fun and buying would be fun if not for the underlying problems caused by artificially limited supply. I think there are people who don't bat an eye at paying 20k over to be first on the block, but they are few and far between and not people who frequent here, if Bieber wants to pay "market value" on a used car so be it, if we wants the jump the line at the dealership and the dealer screws one of "us" over cut off his ***** and the dealership too.
Last edited by dark knight; 08-13-2017 at 11:22 PM.
I'll speak on some facts just so people are aware of the facts. I'll be upfront, as I always am.
Martin asked me for a UV RS. I found him one, as part of a trade. I sold my 4.0RS to a gentleman that wanted to trade me his UV RS and cash. I gave the car to martin for the exact value (wholesale at the time but still above msrp) that I took it in at. The guy getting the 4.0 was happy because he got it "cheaper" and martin got a car "now" for 20-40k less than actual market pricing was. I was happy to sell my 4.0 to a guy that respected it. Martin had also previously offered his Vesuvio car and I declined it based on a valuation gap, having too many other cars currently etc. He did not get butthurt. He understood. He eventually traded to PNH for a 4.0 that I sold PNH so I am happy for everyone on that.
I took the silver 911R in trade for a 675LT spider from the first owner. It's still 40-50k cheaper asking price than most of the cars online. If it does not sell, fine. I pay it down a little every month. I can keep it, i like the car I bought from Park Place (good dealer to me).
I have bought some cars from some of you, sold some to you. Like Martin said my chief tool is transparency. Sometimes my offer is under your asking price.
Example- a guy on here told me he wanted to sell his 800 mile 2015 PTS GT3. I told him it was worth 160 to me and I would do consignment to meet in the middle and make 5-7k. He wanted 180, and that "since he was the owner, it would be worth more" and thought it would sell for 190+. And that I should do it because of "who he is". My contention was that yes PTS is nice but I see PCCB and LWB as essential options. And I see RS's as a better buy for 240 than a GT3 at 190. He got upset, or at least passively aggressive.
And from reading some preceding posts, is butthurt enough and now will probably threaten to ban me.
I bought 5 cars off Eric, we had a nice cordial communication and then I passed along information to him and he did the deal for the R on his own. Like a man. I took the risk in buying his cars and they WERE ALL AMAZING AS REPRESENTED and I sold them quickly. So I figured hey you know what this guy is cool and he will offer me the car back one day so hell why not tell him where it is and see if he can convince the guy to sell.
I applaud the transparency. Curious CJ, what makes you view PCCB as essential? Do most buyers want them?
Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban
I'll speak on some facts just so people are aware of the facts. I'll be upfront, as I always am.
Martin asked me for a UV RS. I found him one, as part of a trade. I sold my 4.0RS to a gentleman that wanted to trade me his UV RS and cash. I gave the car to martin for the exact value (wholesale at the time but still above msrp) that I took it in at. The guy getting the 4.0 was happy because he got it "cheaper" and martin got a car "now" for 20-40k less than actual market pricing was. I was happy to sell my 4.0 to a guy that respected it. Martin had also previously offered his Vesuvio car and I declined it based on a valuation gap, having too many other cars currently etc. He did not get butthurt. He understood. He eventually traded to PNH for a 4.0 that I sold PNH so I am happy for everyone on that.
I took the silver 911R in trade for a 675LT spider from the first owner. It's still 40-50k cheaper asking price than most of the cars online. If it does not sell, fine. I pay it down a little every month. I can keep it, i like the car I bought from Park Place (good dealer to me).
I have bought some cars from some of you, sold some to you. Like Martin said my chief tool is transparency. Sometimes my offer is under your asking price.
Example- a guy on here told me he wanted to sell his 800 mile 2015 PTS GT3. I told him it was worth 160 to me and I would do consignment to meet in the middle and make 5-7k. He wanted 180, and that "since he was the owner, it would be worth more" and thought it would sell for 190+. And that I should do it because of "who he is". My contention was that yes PTS is nice but I see PCCB and LWB as essential options. And I see RS's as a better buy for 240 than a GT3 at 190. He got upset, or at least passively aggressive.
And from reading some preceding posts, is butthurt enough and now will probably threaten to ban me.
I bought 5 cars off Eric, we had a nice cordial communication and then I passed along information to him and he did the deal for the R on his own. Like a man. I took the risk in buying his cars and they WERE ALL AMAZING AS REPRESENTED and I sold them quickly. So I figured hey you know what this guy is cool and he will offer me the car back one day so hell why not tell him where it is and see if he can convince the guy to sell.
I applaud the transparency. Curious CJ, what makes you view PCCB as essential? Do most buyers want them?
Yes I would say that the same people paying extra for a second hand PTS car want all options except Jack (jb71 i think?) who specifically hates the XM radio "wart" and prefers a leather steering wheel.
To some guys- they MUST HAVE:
LWB
Nose Lift
PCCB
Nav
PDLS BLACK LED
other guys:
Steels
Radio delete
LWB
Fire extinguisher
FINALLY:
Brakes? Sure
Seats? Eh whatever
Stereo? I need blue tooth
HAS TO BE PTS OR MY EARTH BODY DIES
08-13-2017, 04:44 PM
For your information, I DID NOT buy the car directly from a dealership....I paid the market price at the time (obviously over MSRP) from CJ with eyes wide open because I wanted the car and because I could afford to buy it. Very easy and fair transaction. 
