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Many excellent points in this thread. Comment & question: - Regarding avoidable injuries and high speed training: I've taught hundreds of hours in car control training to corporate, teen and DE drivers. Even after an 8 hour class on track, where students receive several repeated practice drills to learn a skill - at the conclusion of the day we remind/warn them that while they've learned skills and likely stretched their abilities as a result of the class - unless they have a chance to practice and master the skills they will not develop muscle memory. In a high stress moment (like a deer darting in front of you at 140 mph on track - or driving down an interstate at "speed") you are likely to revert to a "default" behavior which is the thing that you're likely to do when fear takes over. Many people - despite car control training - will panic / swerve or do any number of things that training taught them not to do. Unless one gets to practice embedding a new skill it's not likely to make a difference. There is a chance you'll do better than with zero training, but as they say: Practice Makes Perfect. We have corporate clients who require their folks to repeat the training annually or every two years. Even that type of repetition is not enough to develop reliable muscle memory in an emergency. I also have many hundreds of hours teaching teens to drive. I tell them they are better to hit the deer rather than swerve and hit another car or object like tree/pole. I can say the words but until they experience it - my words have little impact (other than planting the seed). It's difficult to practice any car control training other than on a closed circuit. I also spent 7 years in corporate training/development and people can sit through lots of training but until they are required or motivated to do something new on a frequent (at least weekly) basis - the old habits are difficult to break. Question: Would choosing an early spring or mid-summer event at SP reduce chances of encountering deer on the track? I was there mid-Oct and didn't see any but was well aware of the risk.
Deer is a lot more active during the rut. But even changes in temperature and weather can change their normal behavior.
IMO, that's going too far. While we don't know how the injury and fatality rate per hit will change for road vs track speeds, I think the roadway data still has some relevance, because in both cases we're talking about cars hitting deer, and there's reason to believe that the ratio of injuries to fatalities would also be similar on road vs track (about 70:1).
So, for example, assume that the roadway fatality rate is about 1/10,000 per hit. It's likely also conservative to assume that the fatality rate is 1000x higher on track because of the higher average speed, so say the track fatality rate is 1/10 per hit. Given that there were no significant injuries in about 6 hits I know of on track, that suggests an injury rate below 1/6, and a fatality rate below 1/420, so that confirms that the 1/10 fatality rate is likely conservatively very high, but let's go with it. If the chance of hitting a deer is about 7% in 100 days at SP, the chance of fatality in that many days would be below 0.7%, probably far below that (the 1/420 rate would give 0.02%, or 1/5000). But, again, the chance of injury is much higher in a hit, and the chance of substantial damage to the car is closer to 100%.
There's a lot of estimating here, but it gives us an idea, and IMO these estimates are a better guide for making decisions than gut feelings shaped by anecdotes and emotions.
Ok I guess you have your method nailed down and I hope it works for you but speaking out loud, not one of your numbers gives me any idea of anything. I wouldn't be able to teach whatever your numbers above are trying to tell us about deer hit risk to anyone but then again I'm not a smart guy? They need to do more to protect track....PERIOD! Thats the only thing that means anything to a guy like me that tries to drive quickly around a track and is scared ****less of hitting large wildlife at 140 mph, some the size of small houses!
Ok I guess you have your method nailed down and I hope it works for you but speaking out loud, not one of your numbers gives me any idea of anything. I wouldn't be able to teach whatever your numbers above are trying to tell us about deer hit risk to anyone but then again I'm not a smart guy? They need to do more to protect track....PERIOD! Thats the only thing that means anything to a guy like me that tries to drive quickly around a track and is scared ****less of hitting large wildlife at 140 mph, some the size of small houses!
As I said, I agree that the risk of hitting a deer at SP needs to be reduced, and there are effective ways to do so. But that's under the control of the track, not us, and meanwhile the question for many of us - especially the many locals for which SP is the home track - is whether we should continue to go to SP. What the numbers tell me is that the probability of hitting a deer at SP is relatively low - lower than I would have guessed, though it does depend on time of year and maybe time of day. And the probability of being injured or killed if hitting a deer is also fairly low. For me, the absolute risk is high enough that I plan to scale back my days at SP until the issue is addressed, but low enough that I won't stop going to SP entirely. I wouldn't fault others for choosing differently.
In a high stress moment (like a deer darting in front of you at 140 mph on track - or driving down an interstate at "speed") you are likely to revert to a "default" behavior which is the thing that you're likely to do when fear takes over. Many people - despite car control training - will panic / swerve or do any number of things that training taught them not to do. Unless one gets to practice embedding a new skill it's not likely to make a difference. There is a chance you'll do better than with zero training, but as they say: Practice Makes Perfect.
Best solutions I've found to address this are (a) continue to practice various kinds of exercises on track, in order to become and remain a 'robust' driver who can adapt to varying and unexpected situations and (b) mentally rehearse proper response to various kinds of emergency scenarios. I've found that the first of these can be fun, whereas the second can be difficult and not fun, but both can be fairly effective. I've rarely gone off, but when I did, or when I had to deal with emergencies, I largely credit mental rehearsal for enabling me to do the right thing and override natural instincts which would have been counterproductive.
I agree and research proves that mental rehearsal can be almost as effective as the real deal. In the case where it's difficult to physically rehearse, positive imagery is a very valid tool.
Same concept is why I suggest bench driving to students. They should be able to drive a lap in their head after the first day (preferably before the event but certainly after some sessions on track). It helps to reinforce the muscle memory we're trying to build.
I agree and research proves that mental rehearsal can be almost as effective as the real deal. In the case where it's difficult to physically rehearse, positive imagery is a very valid tool.
Same concept is why I suggest bench driving to students. They should be able to drive a lap in their head after the first day (preferably before the event but certainly after some sessions on track). It helps to reinforce the muscle memory we're trying to build.
Great point!
IIRC, there are even studies for many kinds of tasks which show that spending half the time on the real deal and half on mental rehearsal can be more effective than spending the same total time only on the real deal.
I took this pic shortly after exiting the car. It is located at the end of the front straight at SP. Note the short distance from the woods to the track. I am very fortunate that the windshield was not penetrated. I never seriously considered striking a deer in this fashion on the track but obviously the risk is real and potentially very dangerous.
IIRC, there are even studies for many kinds of tasks which show that spending half the time on the real deal and half on mental rehearsal can be more effective than spending the same total time only on the real deal.
The deer population in Maryland is out of control and most likely the same for WV, etc.
There are a quarter million deer within Maryland's borders. The DNR tries to thin 100k per year, but
thats only 45% of fall population. Worse is they are almost tame and have little fear of humans
bringing them ever closer to residential areas looking for food as over population is using up natural
available food.
Every night I pull into my driveway, I need to get out of the car and herd them off the driveway.
Here is a picture taken last night and today after I shooed them back into the grass.
These are just the youngsters. During rut, I will NOT attempt shooing a buck away!
The deer population in Maryland is out of control and most likely the same for WV, etc.
There are a quarter million deer within Maryland's borders. The DNR tries to thin 100k per year, but
thats only 45% of fall population. Worse is they are almost tame and have little fear of humans
bringing them ever closer to residential areas looking for food as over population is using up natural
available food.
Every night I pull into my driveway, I need to get out of the car and herd them off the driveway.
Here is a picture taken last night and today after I shooed them back into the grass.
These are just the youngsters. During rut, I will NOT attempt shooing a buck away!
Saw your car at the Hunt Valley C&C a few Saturdays ago. Car's looking great!
11-17-2015, 01:01 PM
