got screwed on lease return :(
09-07-2016, 02:40 PM
#16
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I don't see anything wrong. You made the mistake of not addressing each issue and the charges are reasonable and standard charges. $200 for missing key is unheard of and less than half of actual replacement.
A lease return isn't like returning a rental car. If you misplace a key for rental car, you would be paying more than $200 for sure.
A lease return isn't like returning a rental car. If you misplace a key for rental car, you would be paying more than $200 for sure.
09-07-2016, 02:44 PM
#17
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I bought an off lease car 981 (non Porsche dealer) that only came with one key. I bet someone paid the 2 hundred, then I paid about $450 for another key! Scratches on the bumper were very poorly touched up. I'm guessing the money charge is related to value reduction, not cost to recondition. Who buys one tire. I had to put four tires a front brake rotors/pads. Got a great deal, but the car wasn't touched after return off lease.
Maybe I have your car! Guards Red S from Phoenix? Last GPS route to Rolling Hills Golf Course....can I have the key back
Maybe I have your car! Guards Red S from Phoenix? Last GPS route to Rolling Hills Golf Course....can I have the key back
09-07-2016, 02:50 PM
#18
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IMO most of those charges are just. The only charge that might be questionable is the scratch on the bumper.
You have to look at it this way: If I borrowed your car over the weekend, and I came back missing a key, worn tire, scratched your bumper, and I plasti dipped your wheels, would you have charged me?
Worn tire: This one is simple as black and white. They measure that, whatever the threshold is (3/32, 4/32), and if you are under that, you'd get charged. I don't think you can dispute that. $300 for a tire is fair.
Missing key: Same thing. You either have it or you don't. A key might seem insignificant, but it is still a missing item. Think what if the car was missing a shift ****, or armrest, etc. $200 for a key is fair.
Plasti Dipped wheels: It is true that you can remove Plasti Dip easily. But the lease end inspector wouldn't know that, and you can't expect him to know that. His job is to observe and record. He looked at the wheels, and it was not in original color, and he noted it. He shouldn't have to figure out if it was Plasti Dipped, or powercoated, or painted, or etc.
Rear bumper scratch: This you might be able to negotiate. You can argue that it is a small scratch instead of a medium scratch, or a medium instead of a large one.
You will have more leverage if you are buying another Porsche. Some of those charges can be forgiven for brand loyalty. But if you are not buying another car, you probably have no choice but to pay.
You have to look at it this way: If I borrowed your car over the weekend, and I came back missing a key, worn tire, scratched your bumper, and I plasti dipped your wheels, would you have charged me?
Worn tire: This one is simple as black and white. They measure that, whatever the threshold is (3/32, 4/32), and if you are under that, you'd get charged. I don't think you can dispute that. $300 for a tire is fair.
Missing key: Same thing. You either have it or you don't. A key might seem insignificant, but it is still a missing item. Think what if the car was missing a shift ****, or armrest, etc. $200 for a key is fair.
Plasti Dipped wheels: It is true that you can remove Plasti Dip easily. But the lease end inspector wouldn't know that, and you can't expect him to know that. His job is to observe and record. He looked at the wheels, and it was not in original color, and he noted it. He shouldn't have to figure out if it was Plasti Dipped, or powercoated, or painted, or etc.
Rear bumper scratch: This you might be able to negotiate. You can argue that it is a small scratch instead of a medium scratch, or a medium instead of a large one.
You will have more leverage if you are buying another Porsche. Some of those charges can be forgiven for brand loyalty. But if you are not buying another car, you probably have no choice but to pay.
Yeah unfortunately what you said is true, but the point is I got no chance to fix the issues before it. As I said the pre-return inspections did not happen because Autovin could not make it. Had the inspector told me that they would charge for the wheels $150 each, I'd fix it before returning it.
Anyways, I called PFS and complained, got some $$ off the bill, so I guess I'll just pay it. Lesson learned.
09-07-2016, 02:52 PM
#19
I mentioned this in one of the post above: PFS used autovin for inspection but they canceled the appointments and they weren't able to get it done before the return, so I had no idea what they would charge for. Had the inspection been done, I'd take off the plasti dip and remember to bring the extra key.
You should have demanded an inspection at the moment you returned it, period. You should have raised the issue with PCNA about the inspector cancelling then, not after the fact. I would never return a lease car until I had agreement on the condition.
At this point, your only choice is to contest it and see if they'll knock some of it off. Can't hurt to try.
09-07-2016, 03:00 PM
#20
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Not to pile on here, but, inspection or no inspection, you should know that you needed to remove the plasti dip and bring the key. You're required to return the car and the keys in the same condition you received them, save for normal wear and tear. Losing a key and plasti dipping the wheels are not normal wear and tear. Whether the scratch is or not depends on the severity of it and the tires I'm sure are governed by the lease terms.
You should have demanded an inspection at the moment you returned it, period. You should have raised the issue with PCNA about the inspector cancelling then, not after the fact. I would never return a lease car until I had agreement on the condition.
At this point, your only choice is to contest it and see if they'll knock some of it off. Can't hurt to try.
You should have demanded an inspection at the moment you returned it, period. You should have raised the issue with PCNA about the inspector cancelling then, not after the fact. I would never return a lease car until I had agreement on the condition.
At this point, your only choice is to contest it and see if they'll knock some of it off. Can't hurt to try.
09-07-2016, 03:20 PM
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btw I got the inspection report from PFS as well, the scratches are indeed under the bumper, I really don't think they are going to do anything about it before selling the car
Issues like these are one of many reasons I buy and keep my vehicles and don't lease, but let's not turn the thread into another buy vs lease debate.
09-07-2016, 03:41 PM
#23
I've never leased (and never will) a car, but even I know it can't be modified in any way upon return (with the possible exception of legal tint), and it has to be in the best shape possible. Tires must have a minimum treat depth, so it's black and white there. The only subjective issue is the scratch, but without a picture, hard to judge if it was fair or not. But the bad news with lease wear and tear, is it's SUBJECTIVE. As you said, lesson learned. Next time just buy it. Unless you can fully deduct it (I believe it's not the case anymore in most states), it's typically the better option at the end IMO. Good luck.
09-07-2016, 04:22 PM
#24
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Respectfully, you didn't get screwed. You made a bet that PFS either wouldn't care about the issues you mention, or they would somehow slip between the cracks. That bet didn't work out. I made the same bad bet with a lease once and learned the lesson that it is worth fixing the small items before I turn the car back...cheaper than having them do it.
09-07-2016, 05:45 PM
#25
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Okay, I will pile on--this also speaks to the inadvisability of modifying leased cars. Especially when you turn them back in with the "mods" still there. Just saying. Don't think you got screwed at all, although I agree that $150 per wheel to peel off the plastic-dip seems excessive, but we all know Porsche techs don't work for cheap--seen the oil change/dealer cost thread kicking around?
09-08-2016, 04:11 PM
#26
Besides the scratches underneath bumper is questionable, the rest are preventable before you dropped the car off.
Maybe a little bit off topic, who will inspect the car if you don't set up a pre-inspection and just drop it off at the dealership? In my experience leasing BMW, the Sales Manager does the inspection himself and mark all the wear and tears, which I found they are a lot easier than 3rd party inspectors that BMW hires. Not sure about the case with Porsche but would like to know.
Maybe a little bit off topic, who will inspect the car if you don't set up a pre-inspection and just drop it off at the dealership? In my experience leasing BMW, the Sales Manager does the inspection himself and mark all the wear and tears, which I found they are a lot easier than 3rd party inspectors that BMW hires. Not sure about the case with Porsche but would like to know.
09-08-2016, 09:39 PM
#27
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Yeah, if you dropped a rental off at Enterprise with all of those attributes and alterations, there would be some real painful stuff on your next Visa bill. Leasing is no different.
09-09-2016, 09:54 AM
#29
not currently leasing, but have leased in the past. This statement is too broad a generalization. There are times leasing makes sense. Like when manufacturers have high residuals to move leases as per BMWs and some others. Or planning on only keeping the car a short time 2-3 years.
09-09-2016, 11:16 AM
#30
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BMWs lease awesome. Many others do not. You need to understand how to and do the math. Porsches lease poorly (usually).
And yeah, you screwed yourself on the return. Candidly the fees aren't that bad.
When I've leased BMWs in the past I always returned them with bald tires, it was cheaper to have them replace them (usually was charged 1k/set).
And yeah, you screwed yourself on the return. Candidly the fees aren't that bad.
When I've leased BMWs in the past I always returned them with bald tires, it was cheaper to have them replace them (usually was charged 1k/set).