Best radar detector options for 987 Boxster?
03-23-2016, 10:24 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
Ok Zeus993,
Let’s address your statement I was commenting on. You said that by the time you are hit with radar it’s all over. Not so fast. The transmission range of K and Ka band radar is over 2 miles, line of sight. Well within detection range of the V1 or Escort RD but well outside typical ticket range. If the LEO is running continuous on you should get an alert with more than enough time to slow down. So there is an instance where you are “hit with radar” but will most likely be fine.
The other scenario is instant on. If it is POP radar then your detector only has about 65 milliseconds to identify and alert you. The more advanced RDs have trouble with this but will accurately issue an alert some of the time. (Newer POP radar has decreased the pulse to 15ms or so and that has proven extremely difficult for RDs to alert to. Fortunately most municipalities do now allow tickets to be issued using POP only. They require the LEO to switch over to their normal instant on radar foe more accurate results.
As for the standard instant on, if it is you they have targeted directly you will most likely be getting a ticket. However, if it is someone in front of you or to the side of you, you may be free and clear. The main beam on a K-band radar is about 65 degrees. The main beam of Ka radar is about 40 degrees. Both also have side lobes that extend out and will also alert your detector. Not to mention reflection and scatter. So essentially just because you get an alert, that does not mean the LEO was targeting you or has a speed on you.
You mentioned jammers. If you are talking about radar jammers, they are highly illegal at the federal level! LIDAR jammers are legal in some states with some manufacturers producing very effective counter measures to Laser. Even so. Laser is simply light being reflected back to the gun and with dark cars or vehicles with big grills and no front license plate if can take a few seconds or longer to get a reading on a naked vehicle. (I have first hand experience with this as I have tested different LIDAR setups with 5 different police laser guns) LEOs are taught to first aim for the license plate and then a headlight if unable to get a reading center mass. Many here in Texas do not run with front license plates even though it is the law to do so. Some run with Laser Veil GS although I never wanted to coat my nice headlights.
I have used both the V1 and Escort. I finally settled on the V1. I have 3 of them. One in each car. I’ve had V1 in my vehicles for 20 years now. I love the arrows for situational awareness. No question the V1 is noisy and goes off a lot. That can be mitigated somewhat with SAVVY and programming. My major problem with the Escort is that when you mark a location where you have a K or Ka band alert you are isolating an undefined area. I asked Escort for clarification as to what the distance of there dead-zone was but they would not say. I have seen LEOs hide in areas that have other sources of emissions most likely in the hopes that some will have that area zoned out.
For me, I set the SAVVY MPH at 45 but will still get an initial alert that I can analyze.
I’m big into situational awareness and the V1 offers me the most in that area.
Walt
"With radar, by the time your are hit, unless you are using jammers, it's all over."
Let’s address your statement I was commenting on. You said that by the time you are hit with radar it’s all over. Not so fast. The transmission range of K and Ka band radar is over 2 miles, line of sight. Well within detection range of the V1 or Escort RD but well outside typical ticket range. If the LEO is running continuous on you should get an alert with more than enough time to slow down. So there is an instance where you are “hit with radar” but will most likely be fine.
The other scenario is instant on. If it is POP radar then your detector only has about 65 milliseconds to identify and alert you. The more advanced RDs have trouble with this but will accurately issue an alert some of the time. (Newer POP radar has decreased the pulse to 15ms or so and that has proven extremely difficult for RDs to alert to. Fortunately most municipalities do now allow tickets to be issued using POP only. They require the LEO to switch over to their normal instant on radar foe more accurate results.
As for the standard instant on, if it is you they have targeted directly you will most likely be getting a ticket. However, if it is someone in front of you or to the side of you, you may be free and clear. The main beam on a K-band radar is about 65 degrees. The main beam of Ka radar is about 40 degrees. Both also have side lobes that extend out and will also alert your detector. Not to mention reflection and scatter. So essentially just because you get an alert, that does not mean the LEO was targeting you or has a speed on you.
You mentioned jammers. If you are talking about radar jammers, they are highly illegal at the federal level! LIDAR jammers are legal in some states with some manufacturers producing very effective counter measures to Laser. Even so. Laser is simply light being reflected back to the gun and with dark cars or vehicles with big grills and no front license plate if can take a few seconds or longer to get a reading on a naked vehicle. (I have first hand experience with this as I have tested different LIDAR setups with 5 different police laser guns) LEOs are taught to first aim for the license plate and then a headlight if unable to get a reading center mass. Many here in Texas do not run with front license plates even though it is the law to do so. Some run with Laser Veil GS although I never wanted to coat my nice headlights.
I have used both the V1 and Escort. I finally settled on the V1. I have 3 of them. One in each car. I’ve had V1 in my vehicles for 20 years now. I love the arrows for situational awareness. No question the V1 is noisy and goes off a lot. That can be mitigated somewhat with SAVVY and programming. My major problem with the Escort is that when you mark a location where you have a K or Ka band alert you are isolating an undefined area. I asked Escort for clarification as to what the distance of there dead-zone was but they would not say. I have seen LEOs hide in areas that have other sources of emissions most likely in the hopes that some will have that area zoned out.
For me, I set the SAVVY MPH at 45 but will still get an initial alert that I can analyze.
I’m big into situational awareness and the V1 offers me the most in that area.
Walt
"With radar, by the time your are hit, unless you are using jammers, it's all over."
Question - with the instant on LIDAR, can the signal be picked up further away, out of the line of sight, from the source by radar units like the Escort of V1?
03-23-2016, 12:30 PM
#17
Great info on here from WaltB et al.
Here's my take on the "best" radar. I've had radars like V1 where they constantly go off when driving in a city or even a small town. I don't know about you, but it's human nature to learn to ignore the "false alarms" when they're constantly going off. And when you run into an actual police radar, you'll either ignore it or realize too late that it was real.
Nice thing about Escort radars is that many of their models filter out false alerts. When it goes off, you tend to pay more attention that it may be real. Either A) V1 or similar detector goes off 15 times and you have to decide which is real, or B) Escort or similar goes off twice and you pay attention. After many, many, many, many false alarms and learning to ignore the damn things, I knew which was the right one for me. For completeness, V1 is MUCH better at detecting LASER than Escort.
Here's my take on the "best" radar. I've had radars like V1 where they constantly go off when driving in a city or even a small town. I don't know about you, but it's human nature to learn to ignore the "false alarms" when they're constantly going off. And when you run into an actual police radar, you'll either ignore it or realize too late that it was real.
Nice thing about Escort radars is that many of their models filter out false alerts. When it goes off, you tend to pay more attention that it may be real. Either A) V1 or similar detector goes off 15 times and you have to decide which is real, or B) Escort or similar goes off twice and you pay attention. After many, many, many, many false alarms and learning to ignore the damn things, I knew which was the right one for me. For completeness, V1 is MUCH better at detecting LASER than Escort.
03-23-2016, 05:11 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
No question our RDs are alerting more and more as other technologies advance. Currently threats to interpreting valid signals are Active Cruise Control systems, Lane Departure Warning Systems as well as Blind Spot Detection Systems. One of the latest V1 updates was to address better filtering to decrease much of this. A previous software update increased the filtering to identify highway flow monitors operating on K-band. So you absolutely want the latest V1 update and also it’s a good idea to personally program you detector for what you what to hear and what you don’t under certain circumstances.
As for Laser engagements, as I mentioned before, just because you get an alert that does not mean the LEO has a speed on you. There are many occasions that his gun will make repeated attempts to get a speed on you and this can often take a few seconds. Again, depending on what he is aiming at and the reflectability. Keep in mind that at the typical engagement range of about 1,000 feet the 902nm light signal beam is approximately 3’ in diameter. That is why those using jammers put the heads, typically two, on both sides of the front vehicle just inside the headlights but giving them coverage of not only the headlight, the secondary aim point, but also the front license plate, the primary aim point.
Different laser guns have different capabilities and although all being on or very close to the 902 nanometer light spectrum they have different pulse rates and your jammer must be able to identify and return that pulse rate to the gun. Some manufacturers are better at doing so than others.
Just to clarify any confusion on LIDAR employment. The advantages are that with such a narrow beam-width the LEO must target individual vehicles and get in many cases near immediate speed readouts without notifying everyone else that he is there. In many cases since the beam is relatively small, 1 1/2” at 500 foot close in employment ranges such that your V1 or Escort may never alert you since the beam never made it up to where your detector is sitting. Where radar can be reflected off other nearby structures to give you an alert the laser beam much actually hit your detector.
The disadvantage to Laser is that it is very user intensive. The LEO has to be stationary and aiming his gun at you. This is where a good lookout doctrine is paramount. If you can see him before he can get his laser gun on you and pull the trigger you can get your vehicle slowed down to the PSL very quickly, especially in our cars. Because many of us have an excellent LOD some LEOs have become more creative in their employment. Some have utilized high off-axis shoots or even employing on an over pass hitting you in the rear as you blow through on the other side. Most though like to employ on the other side of a hill you are about to come over or a turn you are about to come through. These type of threats are best identified with WASE hoping someone has marked their location. Laser also does poorly in rainy or misty condition. of course most LEO do not want to be exposed to that weather either so you can expect most of them to be out on nice days. (Sometimes nights too)
One of the more sneaky Laser employments I encountered was a LEO on a bicycle in bike shorts and a t-shirt at a busy intersection. He was nabbing those speeding up to beat the yellow/Red light and then he would radio his buddies situated at the different corners of the intersection in their plain cruisers. That's just not right!
Walt
As for Laser engagements, as I mentioned before, just because you get an alert that does not mean the LEO has a speed on you. There are many occasions that his gun will make repeated attempts to get a speed on you and this can often take a few seconds. Again, depending on what he is aiming at and the reflectability. Keep in mind that at the typical engagement range of about 1,000 feet the 902nm light signal beam is approximately 3’ in diameter. That is why those using jammers put the heads, typically two, on both sides of the front vehicle just inside the headlights but giving them coverage of not only the headlight, the secondary aim point, but also the front license plate, the primary aim point.
Different laser guns have different capabilities and although all being on or very close to the 902 nanometer light spectrum they have different pulse rates and your jammer must be able to identify and return that pulse rate to the gun. Some manufacturers are better at doing so than others.
Just to clarify any confusion on LIDAR employment. The advantages are that with such a narrow beam-width the LEO must target individual vehicles and get in many cases near immediate speed readouts without notifying everyone else that he is there. In many cases since the beam is relatively small, 1 1/2” at 500 foot close in employment ranges such that your V1 or Escort may never alert you since the beam never made it up to where your detector is sitting. Where radar can be reflected off other nearby structures to give you an alert the laser beam much actually hit your detector.
The disadvantage to Laser is that it is very user intensive. The LEO has to be stationary and aiming his gun at you. This is where a good lookout doctrine is paramount. If you can see him before he can get his laser gun on you and pull the trigger you can get your vehicle slowed down to the PSL very quickly, especially in our cars. Because many of us have an excellent LOD some LEOs have become more creative in their employment. Some have utilized high off-axis shoots or even employing on an over pass hitting you in the rear as you blow through on the other side. Most though like to employ on the other side of a hill you are about to come over or a turn you are about to come through. These type of threats are best identified with WASE hoping someone has marked their location. Laser also does poorly in rainy or misty condition. of course most LEO do not want to be exposed to that weather either so you can expect most of them to be out on nice days. (Sometimes nights too)
One of the more sneaky Laser employments I encountered was a LEO on a bicycle in bike shorts and a t-shirt at a busy intersection. He was nabbing those speeding up to beat the yellow/Red light and then he would radio his buddies situated at the different corners of the intersection in their plain cruisers. That's just not right!
Walt
Last edited by WaltB; 03-23-2016 at 05:17 PM. Reason: spelling
03-24-2016, 01:23 AM
#19
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Walt, thanks for sharing GREAT information here. There are a lot of myths and misinformed opinions about radar/laser that can get folks in trouble.
To address the OP, the absolute best radar detector is an integrated system like the BEL STiR+ or the Escort 9500CI. With these you get the most range and the best performance. If you can swing it, laser jammers are always a good idea. Like others said, LIDAR is line-of-sight, so 9 times out of 10 if you receive a warning they have already acquired your speed.
Next best choice is running a portable/dash mount with a standalone laser jamming system. Here are my personal top choices coming from inside the industry.
Radar(Integrated):
Radar(Portable):
Laser Defense:
Every one of these offers great protection in it's own way.
To address the OP, the absolute best radar detector is an integrated system like the BEL STiR+ or the Escort 9500CI. With these you get the most range and the best performance. If you can swing it, laser jammers are always a good idea. Like others said, LIDAR is line-of-sight, so 9 times out of 10 if you receive a warning they have already acquired your speed.
Next best choice is running a portable/dash mount with a standalone laser jamming system. Here are my personal top choices coming from inside the industry.
Radar(Integrated):
- BEL STiR+
- ESCORT 9500CI
Radar(Portable):
- Valentine One
- Escort MAX360
- Escort Redline
Laser Defense:
- Anti-Laser Priority
- Escort/Laser Interceptor (Add-on to 9500 or STiR+)
Every one of these offers great protection in it's own way.