Do Cayman's fishtail like 911s?
06-06-2013, 02:15 PM
#1
Do Cayman's fishtail like 911s?
I've driven both air-cooled & water-cooled (996) 911s and they've had a tendency to "fishtail" moreso than the 944.
I am seriously considering a Cayman and am wondering, for those with reasonably extensive experience driving both the Cayman and the 911, does the Cayman (with the engine in front of the rear wheels as opposed to on top/behind the rear wheels) fishtail (especially in wet weather) less?
I am seriously considering a Cayman and am wondering, for those with reasonably extensive experience driving both the Cayman and the 911, does the Cayman (with the engine in front of the rear wheels as opposed to on top/behind the rear wheels) fishtail (especially in wet weather) less?
06-06-2013, 02:33 PM
#2
Nordschleife Master
Much less likely to fishtail due to lower polar moment of inertia with the engine mid mounted in the car.
http://www.complex.com/rides/2013/03...ent-of-inertia
http://www.complex.com/rides/2013/03...ent-of-inertia
Polar Moment of Inertia
Meaning: In the car world, this term refers to any car's resistance to turning. To figure out an individual car's polar moment, you need to know the individual weight of all components of the car separately -- as well as each component's distance from the car's center of gravity. Then you multiply the weight of each component by the square of its distance from the car's center of gravity.Therefore, larger polar moments of inertia occur when individual components of the car with heavier weight are further away from the car's center of gravity. If you're a racecar engineer, you already know this. If you're a car enthusiast who just wants to drive better on the street, you may not have the patience to do all that math. To explain it very simply: keep heavier car components as close to your car's center of gravity as possible in order to lower your car's polar moment issues. A mid-engined car will have a fairly low polar moment, assuming it isn't towing an elephant.
Meaning: In the car world, this term refers to any car's resistance to turning. To figure out an individual car's polar moment, you need to know the individual weight of all components of the car separately -- as well as each component's distance from the car's center of gravity. Then you multiply the weight of each component by the square of its distance from the car's center of gravity.Therefore, larger polar moments of inertia occur when individual components of the car with heavier weight are further away from the car's center of gravity. If you're a racecar engineer, you already know this. If you're a car enthusiast who just wants to drive better on the street, you may not have the patience to do all that math. To explain it very simply: keep heavier car components as close to your car's center of gravity as possible in order to lower your car's polar moment issues. A mid-engined car will have a fairly low polar moment, assuming it isn't towing an elephant.
Last edited by FlatSix911; 06-06-2013 at 11:58 PM.
06-06-2013, 02:47 PM
#3
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Chicagoland Area
Posts: 26,141
Likes: 0
Received 5,404 Likes
on
2,513 Posts
Big difference but driving style has a lot to say about it too.
06-06-2013, 07:23 PM
#4
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I am seriously considering a Cayman and am wondering, for those with reasonably extensive experience driving both the Cayman and the 911, does the Cayman (with the engine in front of the rear wheels as opposed to on top/behind the rear wheels) fishtail (especially in wet weather) less?
06-06-2013, 09:39 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
I had a 11 RS and sold it for the cayman. Cheaper car to run. The handling of the cayman suits my driving style. I always struggled with adding power as the backend was coming around with the RS and, by habit would let off. Hence making it worse.
In the cayman for some reason, I quit making that mistake and continue to stay in the power. I think that with the cayman the back end does not kick out as quickly or immediately like the cayman. It is a more subtle and smooth transaction.
In the cayman for some reason, I quit making that mistake and continue to stay in the power. I think that with the cayman the back end does not kick out as quickly or immediately like the cayman. It is a more subtle and smooth transaction.
06-07-2013, 10:49 AM
#6
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Chicagoland Area
Posts: 26,141
Likes: 0
Received 5,404 Likes
on
2,513 Posts
Even Porsche made the new 991 slightly more mid engine.
Trending Topics
06-07-2013, 12:55 PM
#8
06-10-2013, 04:15 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
The Cayman will feel 'sharper' turning than a 944.
I like the barbell example.
A 944 has the weights on each end of the bar, harder to start turning, harder to stop turning. More stable in a straight line.
A Cayman is the weights close together in the center, quicker to start turning, quicker to stop turning. Less 'stable'.
Early 911s had both weights on one end of the bar (the back), which required more skill! Imagine pushing the bar forward at the middle of the bar with the weight behind, and try going around a corner. LOL Porsche has spent a lot of engineering time and money 'curing' the engine in the rear problem. Anybody remember the iron weights in the front bumper?
Fishtailing can result from many factors, and this is just one. traction and power are 2 that jump to mind.
I like the barbell example.
A 944 has the weights on each end of the bar, harder to start turning, harder to stop turning. More stable in a straight line.
A Cayman is the weights close together in the center, quicker to start turning, quicker to stop turning. Less 'stable'.
Early 911s had both weights on one end of the bar (the back), which required more skill! Imagine pushing the bar forward at the middle of the bar with the weight behind, and try going around a corner. LOL Porsche has spent a lot of engineering time and money 'curing' the engine in the rear problem. Anybody remember the iron weights in the front bumper?
Fishtailing can result from many factors, and this is just one. traction and power are 2 that jump to mind.
06-12-2013, 02:55 PM
#11
Nordschleife Master
Depends on the track. BGB campaigns a 3.8l swapped Cayman in Grand Am Rolex GX class. They also campaign GS class 997 Carreras. Pretty fair apples to apples comparison.
At Daytona the Cayman can do mid 1:55's. The Carreras run low 1:56's
At COTA, on the other hand, the Cayman turned a 2:17.9 whereas the Carrera ran a 2:20.3. Both these times were with Pumpelly at the wheel.
The Carreras still have better aero than the Caymans, and way better gearing when it comes to a long track. We'll be fixing the gearing problem shortly...
At Daytona the Cayman can do mid 1:55's. The Carreras run low 1:56's
At COTA, on the other hand, the Cayman turned a 2:17.9 whereas the Carrera ran a 2:20.3. Both these times were with Pumpelly at the wheel.
The Carreras still have better aero than the Caymans, and way better gearing when it comes to a long track. We'll be fixing the gearing problem shortly...
Last edited by GTgears; 06-12-2013 at 03:45 PM. Reason: colon...
06-12-2013, 03:12 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
06-12-2013, 03:44 PM
#13
Nordschleife Master
06-12-2013, 05:33 PM
#14
Without an LSD, the CS will definitely step its rear end out in the dry and/or the wet under power. I tested a CR and the rear end felt a little more stable out of slow speed corners with the stock LSD. My 944 TS track car's rear end was much more planted than my CS' rear end on the track. But, the CS chassis is so capable that you need to do something input wise to upset it in order to get the rear end out. Doesn't even compare to the old 911 SC I had! It is a relatively easy car to drive fast. A good LSD makes it even better.
