mgerber

All,

I have a '07 987S Tip that will be going in for its annual oil and filter change next month. This car does not get driven often, but when we do take it we drive it very hard. The car has 11K miles and the brake fluid has been changed every other year. Given the car is now five years old and run hard when used I was thinking about having all of the other fluids changed (tiptronic, differential and coolant). We like the car and are hoping to keep it for a while.

Thanks!

Macster

It is up the owner if he wants to have early/preventative fluid changes done.

I do and I advise it provided the owners manual doesn't forbid it.

Sometimes a service department will be reluctant but mainly because they do not want to do a quickie lube but instead prefer to perform a full service on a vehicle. A straight up oil/filter service, even a tranny or coolant drain service, is at best a break even service and could be a profit loss.

(For instance it takes but 0.3 hours and 3 liters of transmission fluid to do a 5-speed fluid change for my Boxster. Even if I pay the full price for these 3 liters of fluid (approx. $48/liter) when one counts in the SM time, the parts counter man's time, the tech's time, the time it takes to wash the car after, the dealer is not making any money. (And the last time I had my Boxster in I got the fluid for around $5/liter as I'm a pretty good customer having both my cars serviced at this dealer.)

Even though the miles are low and the tranny is a Tip were that my car I'd have the Tip fluid/diff fluid changed. You drive the car hard and this can cause the Tip to run hot which of course means the fluid runs hot too. While the Tip fluid doesn't suffer from contamination like engine oil it can still suffer from exposure prolonged high temperatures.

Doing a Tip fluid change now, vs. waiting until the thing is acting up and hoping a fluid change will 'fix' it, I'd rather spend a few dollars now and play the odds that this early fluid change will mean the thing never acts up.

Also, it "looks" good to a prospective buyer -- if you ever go to sell -- that it has received some good fluid servicing.

(On this note: Not too many months ago I had someone -- a person shopping for a car as it turned out -- at a Porsche dealer ask me if my Porsche was for sale and pointing at it just so happens both of my cars. (I sometimes park/leave one car at the dealer with of course the dealer's permission.) I asked which car he was referring to, the Boxster, or the Turbo, and he said the Turbo. I said well I hadn't thought about selling it but of course there's always the chance I'll sell. While I was thinking he turned to the salesman who knows me and knows how I take care of my cars to ask about the car's condition. The salesman told the buyer my car is in tip top shape receiving very good/better than recommended servicing. Had I had the presence of mind and the preparedness to name a price I think I would have sold that car then and there. The guy wanted to get back into a Turbo. But I after a moment told the buyer that I was not interested in selling the car and wished him all the best in his quest. Later I found out he bought not one but two cars, used or new I can't recall now but the salesman who brought me up to date was very happy regardless.)

Anyhow, my advice would be to have the Tip fluid changed, along with the diff fluid, and even have the cooling system drained and the cooling system refilled with new anti-freeze/distilled water.

While the car is in for the above ask that the radiator ducts be cleaned of any trash -- even if you have to pay for the time (not much) to have the bumper cover removed to have this cleaning done -- and also ask that the body water drains be checked and cleaned if necessary.

Sincerely,

Macster.

BostonDuce

As in tracked for 11K miles?

If you're running at max warp then you probably overdue to change out everything. If it's just driving within the upper limits of socially acceptable speed limits then IMHO.....

The tip fluid change is a major PIA. It is not a powerglide. On the refill procedure, the level has to be adjusted precisely (with a special measuring tool IIRC) within a tight temperature range-several times. While possible as a DIY or indy procedure, it's a dealer only procedure IMO. This maybe one of those 'lifetime' fluids that are best left untouched unless you are experiencing a shifting problem.

Non-limited slip differentials, diffs that have not been submerged, or those with un-modified gear ratios and un disturbed pre-loads, have gear oil that's good forever.

I just checked factory installed coolant checked un-molested for 7.5 years. PH=8.5, refractometer freeze protection -30, specific gravity freeze protection -37. BTW the new Porsche coolant straight out of the jug has the same PH level. Unless you see obviously discolored fluid in the overflow tank, notice a off odor, or a coolant sample tests outside acceptable parameters, you're good to go further.

Unless of course, wrenching on your car is a hobby. Then have at it. As long as you put the right stuff back in, with the correct procedure, you won't hurt it.

Regards,
BD

the_vetman

Mac and Duce have both given excellent advice. Here's what I know or have heard:

Changing Tiptronic ATF is supposed to be a real PITA as Duce said. It's supposed to be several hours per the book. I remember someone getting a quote from a dealer that was well over $1,000.

I don't know about Tiptronic, but Porsche recommends changing manual gear oil every 60,000 miles. Please note that this interval has changed over the years. Matt from Guard Transmission recommends changing it more often, definitely so if you track the car.

Porsche coolant... is supposed to be forever (you still want to check it frequently). There's nothing wrong with changing it, but I'd recommend using a vacuum system to do so (dealer or indy). You can certainly DIY, but you'll get all this air in the system that you'll need to "burp" out several-many times.

I asked my indy to flush the clutch fluid about 1 month ago. He said he doesn't really recommend doing that since you can sometimes run into a problem (think he said clutch plate can get stuck?). Not common, but it can happen. Has this also been the experience of you guys (or others)??

Macster

My opinion is you probably ought to seek out an indy that can do a proper brake fluid/clutch fluid flush/bleed without fearing something that AFAIK is not a real concern.

I've done the brake/clutch fluid flush/bleed several times with my 02 Boxster --of course following the steps in the Bentely manual and those from the factory manual using a pressure bleeder and the old fashioned pedal pressing technique -- and never had any problems. Also, the car's been given this service several times at the dealer and there's never been any problems. I'm sure if the clutch pedal had stuck down the tech would have informed me and I would have probably been responsible for paying to have this fixed.

The only thing I have noticed after the above service is a few times the clutch's action was improved. The clutch fluid can get contaminated/degraded to the point clutch action is affected and a flush/bleed can provide a noticeable improvement in this area.

With proper servicing and some luck you might be able to get the over 250K problem free miles I have gotten from my Boxster's original clutch and its clutch (and brake) hydraulic system.

Sincerely,

Macster.

the_vetman

Thank you for the info, Macster. That's along the lines of what I had thought. New indy may not be a bad idea as this isn't the first "questionable" thing I've heard from them...

mgerber

Thanks guys! I have a great relationship with my local dealership and plan to have the work done there. And having read about what a PITA the Tiptronic service is I agree that either a dealer or well qualified indy is the way to go. 11K hard miles is all very aggressive touring. We live in the Pacific Northwest and often tour in remote areas of Idaho and Montana where the roads are devoid of everything but the occasional critter. Based on the advice I will definitely do the Tip and diff, and see what the mechanic says about the coolant.

SpawnyWhippet

Why is the Tiptronic service a PITA? Surely it is just drain the fluid, drop the pan and filter, refit pan, torque to spec, then refill with the car on jackstands, engine running and the trans fluid temp at 35-40C? I just use a $20 laser thermometer on the pan, but I could also do it with Durametric I suppose. I have got a transmission fluid pump that I got on Amazon for $30 which makes life much easier.

The one part of the process I am missing is the full flush rather than a simple drain, as I believe you need 9 quarts of fluid for the flush rather than just 3 for the drain. If anyone knows where to find a DIY for that, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, maybe I will write one.

I haven't yet done the transmission job on my current '07 Cayman S, but I have done it on my previous 996, Cayenne, Land Rovers and several Mercedes, all of them used a similar process.

r553

I believe the reason the Tiptronic service is a PITA is that there is no drain plug for the differential oil so to get the fluid out one has to separate the final cover on the side of the transmission. The ATF oil (different type of oil from differential ) does have a drain plug but the factory procedure only describes draining the contents of the ATF pan and refilling. Flushing the ATF will be problematic trying to access the cooler.

As a bonus the support plate must be removed to get to the ATF drain plug which could modify the rear wheel alignment.

As far as coolant change LN Engineering recommends changing the water pump every four years like the spark plugs. They recommend the Porsche water pump. Doing so will get half the coolant replaced. On my 987 I went through two water pumps so while you under the car you might check for dried coolant.