aussie jimmy

subaru look like they have protocol in place to remedy situation.

q. will the new cayman r be affected by this issue, or is the 3.4 not affected, or have porsche sorted it out by now?

CaymanPower

I don't know what the issue is exactly. I'm still waiting for Porsche's answer.

Everything points out to an issue with the exhaust valve guide(s). That's what I've been trying to prove.

I only have experience with the non-DFI gen2 engines.

CaymanPower

Porsche pressure tested the cooling system on my Cayman looking for any leaks and used an Exhaust Gas Analyser probe into the expansion tank to convince themselves that I had a good head gasket. Everything checked ok.

So, now they want to replace the engine pistons.

I was told that the pistons part number (NOT the rings) was changed two times since the engine's introduction.

Nevertheles, I'll ask for a new engine instead because of two VERY important reasons:

1. I'm NOT convinced that this is the problem as i don't have high oil consumption issues nor smoke while the engine is running and the compression test was good;
2. My engine is still under the factory warranty and this is a MAJOR repair for which the warranty period won't be extended.


What do you think?

Macster

I'm confused then. Why if the engine doesn't smoke or use excessive amounts of oil and a compression test delivers good results what's the original complaint/issue?

Anyhow, regardless whether you are convinced or not that the piston R&R will have any positive effect on whatever the complaint is you have to convince the dealer which in turn has to then contact the factory and convince the factory to authorize something else.

It could very well be that you will get a new engine anyhow, eventually, for if you are right and whatever symptoms/behavior the engine was exhibiting before the piston replacement if this is still present afterwards factory would then agree to replace the engine.

From the factory's point of view it is going to work up to an engine replacement in baby steps. This might in your case prove to be more expensive to the factory if the outcome is a new engine anyhow, but for the majority of cases it works to the factory's benefit.

The way I understand things work is if there is any warranty work on the car whatever warranty this comes with (labor, parts) expires when the car's warranty expires. This is common. Now depending upon various things that no one can know beforehand, the factory might in partnership with the dealer provide a goodwill repair should something that was specifically done prior to the warranty expiring failed afterwards. But one can't know this goodwill repair would be extended to him and the car until he is in that situation.

You can still argue for, request an extended warranty a specific warranty that applies to this repair that in case something arises from this repair after the warrranty period expires this is covered. This extended warranty wouldn't cover the whole car or even the entire engine/drivetain but it is better than nothing.

How much warranty to ask for? IIRC my info is right generally labor is covered for 1 year and parts are covered for 2 years, 24K miles. Even if you are successful at getting granted an extended but limited warranty unlikely you'd get something better than the above.

But decide what you think you want/need and ask for it. You might get some extended unconditional warranty that applies to the whole car. You never know.

Sincerely,

Macster.

CaymanPower

You are joking, right?!

I start to believe you are a very confused person.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xRn3YIPHVc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be53GbAiWpo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ttMrnyC-f8

Macster

If I'm confused it is only because of what you posted.

"I'm NOT convinced that this is the problem as i don't have high oil consumption issues nor smoke while the engine is running and the compression test was good;"

"don't have high oil consumption nor smoke while engine running".

That bit of smoking after engine start is pretty common. I don't know a Porsche owner who has not seen that at some time or another.

I've asked techs about this and they tell me the see new cars smoke often. This is attributed to the fact the engines are new, and the engine is seldom run more than a moment or so which is a factor in the engine's tendency to smoke upon startup. The techs tell me they watch the smoking and as long as it tapers off shortly after engine start and the engine exhibits no other signs of trouble they pay it no more mind.

That you have separated the exhausts and can see the smoke comes from one bank means really nothing for I believe were this mod done to a larger population of cars more than a few would exhibit the same thing, though the bank that smoked may be different. The two banks are separate banks of course and can have differences that can even involve differences in the amount of smoking each bank does.

If you look at the long term fuel trims of various cars you'll find the engine controller often has to adapt a bit differently to each bank. In short the banks can vary a bit and that is normal.

Based on the videos I don't see anything particularly scary but if Porsche is willing to replace the pistons jump at that.

If the smoking stops, result.

If not then chances are Porsche will replace the engine.

Sincerely,

Macster.

CaymanPower

Yeah right...

I have 63 posts on this forum plus 343 posts on the planet 9 forum where you also participate with the nikname 'Rockster' and you have replied to me directly on both forums and in my threads such this one, and now you are telling me that you didn't know that my car smoked heavily ONLY at startup?!


Bit of smoking?!?!?!

Did the 'techs' also explain to you why it only smokes from one bank and NEVER from the other?! And, how could it be ever possible to be considered normal?!

If Porsche felt this wasn't a problem why then they (the Porsche techs) want to replace my engine's pistons?!


Please, if you are confused and can't help, at least, don't confuse others with NO factual evidence claims.

Please, do ignore my threads.

Macster

Sure, I participate in several forums, using several different user names.

(At one time I had the belief using different user names would make it harder for someone looking to steal my identity harder because he couldn't google my user name and put together details about me that would make this id theft easier. But I've since learned id theft is easy with all the inside employee help these id thieves have in their 'employ' or just as bad made easy by how badly is the safeguarding of one's personal info that one provides to businesses one does business with.)

Anyway...As a result I read many many posts, far more than I should I think. Also, I can't always go back and read through dozens of posts/replies (in your case 343 posts/replies on another forum and 63 here) to regain the context of a problem, so I rely upon the latest/most recent post for context.

Furthermore, for many of these posts that have audio/video links either they don't work for me or I don't have the time to view all the videos/audios posted.

But I managed to view the video clips in this latest go-round and the smoking is typical of the smoking many of us have observed from our cars.

The only thing additionally we can see from what you posted is the smoking is from one cylinder bank.

There is no way of knowing if this is normal or not.

As I mentioned above, in an earlier post anyhow, is that if all of our cars were fitted with separate exhaust outlets for each bank, we might find the smoking was prominently from one bank or the other. Or it might vary coming first from one bank one time and the other bank the next time.

As I think I mentioned before, absence any other signs of engine distress, absent a check engine light, error codes, there is no problem.

Brief smoking of the engine on startup by itself is not a reason to tear into an engine, either at the expense of the customer (unless he insists and understands the risks that almost certainly nothing will be found that can be addressed), or the dealership with or without any assistance from the factory.

What does Porsche think? Who knows? But what does it matter though?

I do know that occasionally a dealer with (or without) the factory's blessing (agreement/permission) will attempt to address a problem for a customer that involves for instance in your car's case offering to replace the pistons even though the thinking is and based on the guidelines supplied by the factory regarding such matters there is really not a problem.

For instance, just the other day at a dealership I encountered a car in for a problem (the car in for a problem was the same model of car I own so I was understandably curious about why it was in and what was wrong) and in talking the situation over with the tech I learned the owner insisted and quite strongly too the problem was with some internal engine component. The tech told me the customer was quite sure of this because of what he was told on a forum.

The dealership relented (I do not know how good a customer this car owner is but the car is I'm pretty sure out of warranty) and the tech tore into the engine (after first having to drop the engine from the car) deep enough to confirm the components the customer suspected as being the source of the problem were not, they were just fine.

Before he started this action on behalf of the customer, the tech had a good idea of what was wrong (and his diagnosis was based on more than reading tea leaves) and I think the tech will be right.

The above, then, leads me to this:

If one complains long enough, loud enough, and pardon my bluntness but in your case I think it warranted, makes a big enough pain in the *** of himself, this can happen. Against the professional diagnosis of the tech the tech with I'm sure permission from his service department's management, and possibly some higher authority's permission (dealer management and possibly even the factory) gave in to the customer's insistance as to what was wrong and found the customer's suspicion of the source of the problem completely wrong. The cost in labor will probably be eaten by the dealership.

So, whether the behavior is normal (brief smoking from one cylinder bank after startup) is normal or not I can't say for sure.

But for the sake of this discussion, let us assume it is not normal.

Then I say if the dealer/Porsche has agreed to replace the pistons, shut up and accept the offer of new pistons.

In tearing down the engine the tech might be under orders to inspect/check the engine over for other possible sources of this smoking, checking various things, clearances, fits, etc. and if he finds something the piston R&R might turn into a new engine for your car.

Even if the tech finds nothing wrong out of the ordinary (or is not under orders to look for anything -- but I bet he is for if he finds something chances are it will get reported back to the factory so the dealer can request some help in covering the cost, if the factory is not already involved in this aspect) if the new pistons eliminate the smoking well, that's what you're after.

If the new pistons do not eliminate the smoking then you have some basis for pressing for another attempt at a fix and this could ultimately mean a new engine for your car.

For our sake, if not for your's, if you receive a new engine for your car, I hope to God it is one that doesn't smoke.

Any.

Ever.

Sincerely,

Macster.

CaymanPower

I can see that you were unable to respect what I asked you for and I really don't know why you insist on participating in my threads if you couldn't for once help me out in finding what exactly is the cause of the smoke. In fact, it's exactly the opposite, you even can say that it's normal when the factory in Germany, themselves (not the dealer), are saying to tear into the engine and replace all the pistons after all the tests they have asked the dealer to perform. Moreover, the pistons part number for this engine had been changed at least one time since this engine introduction, which means that the pistons were redesigned at least once, which in turn means that something wasn't right with the first ones. So, there may be a reasonable argument to replace the pistons as the cause of the smoke. What the explanation is, unfortunately, I don't know. Because, if the pistons design is the same for both banks of the engine why only one bank smokes?!

But one thing I do know, you are not being a bit helpful on this matter nor you can. And to show your contradictions to the facts let's remember an old thread about a 'cloud of smoke':

http://vimeo.com/9986373


In that very same thread another forum user says:

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...separator.html


Smoking just from one side of the engine is NOT normal and must be addressed! Period.

Once again I ask you, please do ignore my threads if you can't help.

CaymanPower

The pistons on the gen2 2.9L engine were redesigned twice, thus we have three different types of pistons for this engine with the following part numbers (the last being the good one, supposedly):

a) 9A1 103 029 63

b) 9A1 103 029 06

c) 9A1 103 029 09


Does anyone know what the changes are? Is it the number and/or size of the piston drain back holes for the oil control rings?

CaymanPower

Here is a first video about my engine internals. Some photos will follow.

All the 3 piston rings are able to rotate in their grooves by design except for the second ring. The second ring is mounted in the piston in such way that a small pin in its groove/ring land stays between the ring gap's ends. Thus, the ring can only rotate as much as its gap length (which is a LOT smaller when the piston is inside the cylinder and the ring is squeezed against the cylinder walls). You can also see the 2 ring oil drain back holes (there's another 2 holes in the opposite side of the piston):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4uMSXl94SU



PS: I'm still waiting for the new pistons to arrive to compare. Everything else looks perfectly normal, pistons included. Bank #2 head wasn't disassembled/checked for any anomaly, namely valve stem guides and seals, because Porsche specifically instructed my dealer to ONLY replace the pistons (they are the ones that are paying, so...).

CaymanPower

New photos on:

http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxst...caymans-8.html

CaymanPower

Hi all,

I got my car back already with new pistons but after the following thread about the gen2 2.9L engine had been closed:

http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxst...iles-pics.html


and after some replies I got also in this thread which are in the same trend - people seem not to care about engine problems and are more concerned in protecting Porsche's image even when real problems exist - I won't be giving any additional information about my car unless that thread is opened and kept open, because I originally posted about gen2 2.9L engine issues in that forum, as a sign of good will and real interest in the subject.

So, for those with real interest in the subject you have to show yourself up otherwise I will assume there's no interest.

I could at least help one person with the engine smoke issue besides myself (read that closed thread) and that's enough for me to not keep going on publicly about this issue and do it privately.


Thank you for your comprehension!