I store my 987 for the winter and I've always operated under the assumption that if I am not going to drive it, it is better to keep the car stored for the winter vs. periodically starting it and letting is sit for 20-30 minutes to warm up the engine.

However, in this month's excellence, there was a Q&A that indicated that it is preferable to start the car regularly and warm up the engine vs. letting it sit for the whole winter.

Have I been doing damage to my car for letting it sit for 5 months each year (I cover the car, over-inflate the tires and use a battery tender)?

 

Not very likely.

I'd not worry about what you did and instead focus on the new recommendation.

Frankly I think starting the engine and letting it run once in a while preferrable to just letting the thing sit for months without any running at all.

The car gets 'stored' with fresh oil/fresh gas (treated with some stabilizer) and a battery tender gets connected. (And rodent repellent used to keep the blasted creatures away!)

Then every once in awhile just start the engine and let it idle until warm. There will be some water build up in the oil cause the oil will not get hot enough to boil the water out of the oil but it won't be much oil and there's not any contamination in the oil (fresh oil remember?) to form acids and the fresh oil has its full complement of corrosion fighting additive package intact.

Kudos to the first person who does an oil analysis *after* doing this one winter just to see what the oil 'looks' like (how much water build up there actually is).

BTW, while the engine's running it would be a good idea to turn on the heater/AC to run the compressor and circulate refrigerant and the compressor oil it carries to the compressor too. Before shutting off the engine though turn off the AC and let the cabin fan run a while to dry the heat exchanger.

The discussion now will probably move towards what's the best schedule? Once a week? Once a month?

I would think every 4 to 6 weeks about right... This works out to 3 maybe 4 of these start/idle sessions per storage season.

Sincerely,

Macster.

 

The instruction manual specifically states that it is not recommended to start the car and let it idle for any extended period of time.

IIRC the reason is that when the engine is not at full operating temperatures the wear is accelerated. If you start and idle the car and it takes 40 minutes to warm up that can amount to significant wear over a course of 10 years.

Now if you can start the car and actually drive it to warm it up quickly then it can't hurt.

 

mine is in an underground, so i have started it twice in 2.5 months. i then drive it down to the bottom floor of the garage and run it back up. tempted to slide it around some of the corners but passed

 

There's a good reason for not idling the engine for a prolonged period of time, at least making a habit of it. Emissions is one. And on a related note, this is wasteful of gas too.

But we're talking about the greater good here, the preservation of a very expensive automoibile and its engine keeping as best one can the car and engine in tip top shape over a prolonged period when the car can't be used regularly, driven, and the engine run.

As for wear, there is no significant wear. A cold engine's oiling needs are very small and the oil pump starts oil flowing immediately. There is sufficent residual oil present that metal to metal contact is avoided.

(Some even go so far as to remove the fuel pump fuse and 'dry' crank the engine a couple of times of a moment or two to get the oil flowing some before starting the engine and letting it run on its own power. If the car has sat weeks and weeks unused I could see some reason for this. But I note a lot of new cars sit unused on the dealer lots for weeks at a time and it doesn't seem to harm the engine, though it is hard on the battery.)

With the engine hot the oil pressure at idle is between 1 and 2 bar and when the engine is started cold the oil pressure climbs to over 4 bar in no time so oil flow/pressure is not a problem. The oil is likely 0w-40 oil which flows darn good when cold.

Heck, I've started the cold engine of my 02 Boxster and let the engine idle a minute or two (until the secondary air injection pump shuts off) about a zillion times now and the engine hasn't worn out yet.

Sincerely,

Macster.

 

Everything I've always read about storing classic cars has been to let them sit all winter without starting them for the reasons I've mentioned. I guess it doesn't necessarily apply to newer cars which have tighter tolerances, use lighter weight oils and have instantaneous oil pressure.

If you do start the car occasionally it's probably a good idea to run the A/C to lubricate everything in the system and also prevent the seals and O-Rings from drying out. But then again I haven't kept up with new car A/C systems either so maybe it doesn't matter?

 

As with any engine from other mfg. 80% of all engine wear is done at start up. Oil begins to flow as soon as the engine begins to crank but oil did not flow through all the oil channels. It takes time to completely circulate.

This is probably one of the reson why some expert say to let it sit all winter after it has been prepped for storage. Less time you start it less engine wear is achieved.

 

This is a pretty hotly debated issue on some of the Ferrari Forums. The issue being whether the belts will last longer from being moved, and if seals and gaskets will last longer since they are less likely to dry out. Other say, temps don't get hot enough to burn off moisture in the exhaust and water in the oil, and that the water sitting in the engine isn't good and you can prematurely start to rot out your exhause system over time.

Both the Porsche Tech and the Ferrari Tech advised me for the cars I have, prep them for storage and then leave them alone until they are ready to be driven in the spring.

Its your car, so do what you like. My techs said don't start them if I can't drive them, so I don't.

Years ago, there was some company selling a rolling surface so that you could technically, "drive" the car in your garage (provided the car doesn't have AWD)...to simulate driving it by spinning the driving whee, while keeping it stationaryl. But I don't know anyone that ever bought one or tried it.

Best regards,
Dino

 

I've been letting vehicles sit untouched/unmoved during their winter mothball for years.

I have never seen any evidence of oil starvation, sludge formation or other 'lack of use' issues. Biggest problems are dry-rot rubber and an occasional mouse attack. My last car that had flat spot tires was a 1989. Modern rubber just doesn't seem to flat spot.

Stored cars cold, heated, inside, outside, in between the OCI-doesn't make any difference.

Just did valve adjustments on a 6YO 20K mile, and a 16YO 68K mile car, both stored off season(these weren't flat sixes, but I would expect the same result). The cam lobes and surrounding valve train looked new-on both.

Properly stored, or properly maintained low mileage cars for that matter, are nothing to worry about.

I cannot understand the logic that you need to drive/run a car to expose or prevent problems-It's a machine, if it isn't used, it doesn't wear.

BD

 

Even if one allows that 80% number, the amount of wear is insignificant under all but the most exceptional cases.

(As a case in point, my 02 Boxster with now over 239K miles has been cold started more times than many cars have been started hot or cold and based on the engine's behavior, performance, low (approx. 1 quart per 5K miles) oil consumption, has suffered no wear from engine starts.)

For engines that are used periodically there is sufficient residual oil presence at the various bearing interfaces that no metal to metal contact takes place until the oil begins to flow. And the oil flows very very quickly. Gear oil pumps are quite efficient at moving oil. At higher rpms the oil pump in our cars can move 60 (or more) liters of oil per minute.

For modern cars with their more complicated designs/implementations long periods of inactivity brings with it the very real threat of engine/vehicle degradation. Modern engines use seals that are lower in friction -- to reduce engine internal friction and improve gas mileage (and performance) -- and thus more likely to be affected by any drying out and shrinkage. The seal contact margin is small to begin with. Seals like to be bathed in engine oil occasionally to help keep them pliable and from shrinking.

Now, for long periods of inactivity the residual oil diminishes and then metal to metal contact when the engine is first started is more likely to occur.

Corrosion also gets a chance to work its damage. As the engine sits unused, oil stratifies, as does gasoline and even coolant. Now ideally the oil is fresh when the car is put away for the season so there's little stratification of the oil, that is the oil contains no build up of water/unburned fuel which if present will separate from the oil over time.

However, the oil can still stratify: The various additives for corrosion and anti-wear/anti-friction can separate out and this reduces the oil's ability to fight corrosion and provide suitable protection against metal to metal contact at the next startup.

By periodically running the engine the oil is of course stirred up -- is made homogeneous once again -- and this homogeneous oil is then distributed to all parts of the engine. It is this fresh bath of oil that becomes the residual oil once the engine is shut down again and is counted on to protect the engine during its period of inactivity and of course when the engine is started again.

Sincerely,

Macster.