BiggerTwin

I would guess airbags, ABS, traction control, yaw control, computer diagnostics, power seats, power windows, power door locks, crash & rollover safety, etc. add some weight.

Alan

Greg Smith

Well I had the chance to drive both cars Monday.

Cayman S was yellow, 6 speed with the Porsche SSK, a few cosmetic options and thats about it. I was very impressed with the overall feel on the car. Car/body felt very solid, suspension was just the right amount of compromise between street and track for most, although I could handle stiffer. Shifter was awesome, slid right into the gears, although I sometimes would find 3/4 instead of 1/2. Althought that's probably because I'm used to my shifter/gear placement in my own car. Initial bite from the brakes was laking but that's probably due to me being used to track pads. Steering was very direct and precise and perfectly weighted. Car felt stable, predictable, and confidence inspiring in the handling department, but you never really know untill you bring it the track. Power, the one thing I though the car lacked. It didn't even seem much powerfull than my car. The engine wasnt broken in so maybe it will gain alot of power? Maybe there is so Porsche program which limits power for the first 1,000 miles(doubtfull)? Maybe the power was so linear it was deceivingly fast. The pedals were not close enough together which made heel-toe pretty hard because my foot was barely wide enough to comfortably(and strongly) touch the brake and gas.

The M coupe was black with a 6 speed and actually I didn't even look at the option list. The interior, especially the dash, felt kinda chintzy. The dash is the sort of faux leather but it's almost sandpaper like and really didn't do anything for me. I question how it will look in 5 yrs from now. Seats felt good. I didn't like the steering, wasn't direct. The brake pedal sucked, as soon as you touch it its real grabby, then kinda nothing happens when you push more, then it gets real grabby again. The M coupe felt significantly more powerfull than the Cayman contrary to magazine results. The inside felt a little claustrophobic with a low roof line that really cut off your vision. Looking out the back thru the center rear view mirror the gap is pretty small. I could basically only see the bumper of a minivan 8 cars back.

SleepRM3

The Z4 M Coupe can make up that 1-second gap at Gingerman Raceway by running the same tires the Cayman S has--Michelin Pilot Sport 2s. The Z4 M Coupe is stuck with 7-year-old tire technology with the Continental Sport Contact 1s. I've driven Gingerman Raceway, and it's suited for good handling lower hp cars--and so the Cayman S would do--and does--better there. Road America, Road Atlanta, or Mid-Ohio would suit the Z4 M Coupe.

I absolutely hate BMW for always staggering the wheel/tire widths on their M models--I know they're trying to protect the unskilled driver, but for those of us with tracktime experience, we will end up unstaggering the wheel widths by running rear widths all around. I did that with my '97 E36 M3/4-door, and the understeer is gone--handling is completely neutral--as it should be with near-perfect 50/50 fr/rr static weight distribution. I suspect that running rears all around with the Z4 M Coupe will also be possible--thus--improving the Z4MC's turn-in ability.

One advantage BMW M cars have are BMW's variable-locking differential. A limited slip diff is a must-have with any sports car, and Porsche refuses to offer this option with their "lower end" models.

I've compared a Titanium Silver Z4 M Coupe and a Arctic Silver Cayman S. No contest. Z4 M Coupe is stunning to behold in real life. The Cayman S photographs better, but in person, the "little croc" doesn't move me from an aesthetic standpoint--surprising since BMW designs are not all that emotionally-moving to most people LOL

I did not test-drive either car, so sitting in each one was the best I could get. I like the Z4 M Coupe's interior. It's all business with no brightwork. I especially love the "carbon-fiber" look/textured leather, M sport seats, and that chunky, thick-rimmed steering wheel. The coziness of the cockpit reminded of my old Type FD Mazda Rx7 (twin turbo)--you really strapped that car on like a backpack LOL

I agree that BMW designs are getting heavier with each generation. My current '97 E36 M3/4-door weighs 3175 lbs. A base Z4 M Coupe (no options) weighs 3200 lbs. Compare those weights to my old '93 FD Mazda Rx7 which was 2750 lbs with full fuel tank. The Z4 M Coupe test car for the rag reviews was loaded with options, and tips the scales at nearly 3400 lbs--unacceptably heavy for a sports car--which is one reason I did not buy an E46 M3 Coupe (also a 3400-lb behemoth).

Note that the Cayman S is no lightweight either--it's heavier than a '99 996 Carrera (svelte 2910 lbs).

At $50K base price for a no-options Z4 M Coupe, BMW's value proposition is much higher than Porsche's.

I'm torn between getting a '99 996 (with mechanical locking diff) or waiting for a used Z4 M Coupe to come down in price. A two-year-old Z4 M Coupe will still be covered by a warranty with full maintenance--while I'd be on my own fixing the oil leaks on a '99 996.

P-Car fanatic

Today I drove a cayman s and a 997 s back to back (going to the dealer in my 996 99 c2

the cayman was the best car for me

I was underwhelmed by the 997

I will be selling my 996 and getting a cayman.

The cayman is the best car I have driven (total package) for me (out of all cars I have driven)

arenared

Congrats and thanks for your comments. Did you test with PASM in Sport?

Once you get used to how effortlessly a mid-engined car transitions, you can't go back to a front or rear engined car. The others just feel so slow and lethargic--at least to me (other things being roughly comparable, of course).

Concerning LSDs, I'm sure the aftermarket will step up such as Guard. I think the Cayman is a wonderful platform to work with.

bet

I am curious. What did you like about the Cayman S better than the 997 S? Unfortunately the ability to drive both cars is difficult for me because the inventory at my local p-car dealer is very low. It usually consist of a Boxster, Cayma S, a couple of Cayenne S's and maybe a base Carrera (if you are lucky).

Doug&Julie

The Farnbacher - Loles GTR uses a LSD built by Stasis Engineering (of Audi fame). I'd bet that will be widely available very soon (if not already).

SleepRM3

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...1&postcount=61

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...6&postcount=63

P-Car fanatic

My first p car was a boxster and I loved it, just not enough power and I prefer the torsional rigidity of a coupe....

I did not touch any button other than the air con..... but I was very impressed with the road feel and the immersive drivng experience - I like the way the cockpit is cosier than my 996's

my wife has told me that a 2 seater will not be practical when we have kids (in 4 years) so I need to go ahead and change the 911 sooner rather than later

I looked at a 996 turbo but I can;t deal with another car with the same interior!

P-Car fanatic

No big heavy lump hanging over the rear axle

My 996 feels porky, the 997 s even more so.

I was really looking forward to the test drive as I had my doors blown off by a 997 s cabrio coming back from the f1 race the other weekend, but it just felt like a more refined gt like my 996 just with more power (and more weight)

The dealer was expecting me to rave about the 997 s and i think he was a bit pissed when i didn;t have the desired reaction

Also, having the engine behind your head at WOT soumds awesome. Given the improvement I got with PSE on my 996, adding pse to a cayman s when available should be stunning

P-Car fanatic

I've owned several BMWs and I love them - they make amazing sports sedans.

Porsche are in a different level of sporting finesse and cachet in my opinion.

My wife wants a 4 seater convertible so she is getting a 330ci, when I have kids I will probably get a 550 or M5 (she can get whatever suv she wants, maybe audi Q7)

I've dirven the old m coupe, the old z3 and the new z4. none of them match the current boxster or cayman. I have yet to drive a z4m coupe.

ringmeister

After 30 minutes of flogging the two cars, the stock brakes on the M coupe will be toast but the Caymans will still feel great. BMW puts garbage brakes on their cars, it's a crime. Even the monster brakes on the M5 are utter junk on the track.

mooty

bmw's got brakes?
i usually run stoptech on my m3's.

SleepRM3

Wow, you're overbraking if you're roasting the Z4 M Coupe's brakes (they're from the E46 M3 CSL). The M5 (either E39 or E60) is a 4000-lb+ car--so of course the M5 brakes won't hold up after repeated hard use on the track.

Greg Smith

They're street pads, what do you expect? Change out the pads and they'd be plenty powerful. However, I still found the braking way overboosted with inconsistent pedal feel and modulation.