Will the M Z4 Coupe come close to the Cayman S?
06-14-2006, 12:23 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by Budget M3
I must admit that I really wanted a Boxster coupe.... until it was released as the Cayman. Porsche really disappointed by pricing the Cayman ABOVE the Boxster--marketing says its a totally different car than a Boxster coupe, but I think the educated enthusiast knows better. Yeah, they got to market first and have the more "prestigious" (sp?) logo on the front, but at $10K+ price difference you either have to be an absolute P-car nut (oxymoron intended) 
or have money be no object to put these cars in the same class. If, like all other car companies, they had priced the Cayman below a similar engined convertible, then the M-car comparison would be fair and the Porsche would win.
I have to give the nod to the M-Coupe as the best performance value for the dollar...
or have money be no object to put these cars in the same class. If, like all other car companies, they had priced the Cayman below a similar engined convertible, then the M-car comparison would be fair and the Porsche would win. I have to give the nod to the M-Coupe as the best performance value for the dollar...
Spot on, if this car was 15k less (like the z4m coupe) it would be a fair comparison with the cayman probably getting the nod. It does not justify it's 65-70k price point with options, and people are talking with their feet by not buying it without a discount.
06-14-2006, 01:10 AM
#32
Burning Brakes
Two years from now, the Cayman should be a great, used $30,000 car, based on what we see with Boxster resale. No way is that a $65,000+ car, though (no disrespect intended to people that have paid the full ticket).
Imagine freshening a used one in a few years with high miles with a 3.6 996 plant, or perhaps even the transplanted heart of an unlucky GT3...that would be some car.
Imagine freshening a used one in a few years with high miles with a 3.6 996 plant, or perhaps even the transplanted heart of an unlucky GT3...that would be some car.
06-14-2006, 01:57 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by yemenmocha
Aesthetics aside please.... in terms of performance and value will this car be much of a competitor for the Cayman S?
BMW has always boasted its 50/50 weight distribution.
The car has 330hp, weighs 3100 lbs, and that engine has power nicely sprea throughout the RPM range (I have the same engine in my M3 and I love it.)
Base price is $49, 300 and nearly full equipped is $56k. No extra charges for desirable interior colors and virtually all exterior colors have the metallic $475 charge already included in my $56k number above. Bottom line, MSRP vs. MSRP is about a $10-14k gap.
Remember: comparing the new Coupe not the M Roadster. Unlike Porsche the Coupe is cheaper than the convertible.
-Aaron
BMW has always boasted its 50/50 weight distribution.
The car has 330hp, weighs 3100 lbs, and that engine has power nicely sprea throughout the RPM range (I have the same engine in my M3 and I love it.)
Base price is $49, 300 and nearly full equipped is $56k. No extra charges for desirable interior colors and virtually all exterior colors have the metallic $475 charge already included in my $56k number above. Bottom line, MSRP vs. MSRP is about a $10-14k gap.
Remember: comparing the new Coupe not the M Roadster. Unlike Porsche the Coupe is cheaper than the convertible.
-Aaron
This is a Porsche enthusiast site and not a car comparison board.
06-15-2006, 02:11 AM
#35
kostas..let see...you owned 8 p-car and now you own a cayman.... maybe you are getting too old that you can't think straight??lost you mind. maybe??
And you from Athens? that's Greece? maybe that greek thing get to you??
And you from Athens? that's Greece? maybe that greek thing get to you??
Last edited by Cloud964; 06-15-2006 at 02:28 AM.
06-16-2006, 03:54 PM
#36
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Co-worker has a new Z4M roadster (couldn't wait for the coupe for some reason)......I, a Cayman S. We each have driven the other extensively. Bottom line, if he could have afforded a Cayman S he would have bought one and now clearly sees the reason why a Porsche commands a higher price.......whether anyone sees it as a good value or not.
If all your are looking at is HP and 0-60 times......the Z4M in either coupe or roadster will fair well and is a good buy....a Corvette is even a better one. If you are looking for that last bit of handling, braking, styling, and sounding finesse.......the Cayman S has it in spades over the ZM. As far as which one is truly the fastest?......I can honestly say I have no trouble keeping up with any present ZM or M3......and I don't have to beat the hell out of the Cayman to do it. I also don't have to listen to the horrible noise of the S54 engine @ 8K RPM. Nice engine, but sounds really bad next to any Porsche and many other cars for that matter.
I love BMWs, almost owned an e46 M3 at one point,.....great driving cars in any form. They are still not any substitution for a Porsche. If you want to save some $$$ and get something close to a Porsche.....good choice, but it's still a compromise next to the real thing.
If all your are looking at is HP and 0-60 times......the Z4M in either coupe or roadster will fair well and is a good buy....a Corvette is even a better one. If you are looking for that last bit of handling, braking, styling, and sounding finesse.......the Cayman S has it in spades over the ZM. As far as which one is truly the fastest?......I can honestly say I have no trouble keeping up with any present ZM or M3......and I don't have to beat the hell out of the Cayman to do it. I also don't have to listen to the horrible noise of the S54 engine @ 8K RPM. Nice engine, but sounds really bad next to any Porsche and many other cars for that matter.
I love BMWs, almost owned an e46 M3 at one point,.....great driving cars in any form. They are still not any substitution for a Porsche. If you want to save some $$$ and get something close to a Porsche.....good choice, but it's still a compromise next to the real thing.
06-17-2006, 01:42 AM
#39
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many of us owe some rather fancy 911 in asia and in usa. 964RS, 993RS, 996GT3, 996 cup car.. but also own cayman S as well. most of these owners will tell you that while the two platforms drive differently, cayman s is as real as any of above mentioned 911 series.
drive as many p cars as you can and enjoy them all.
drive as many p cars as you can and enjoy them all.
Last edited by mooty; 06-17-2006 at 10:22 AM.
06-17-2006, 04:55 AM
#40
Burning Brakes
Ok
this has gotten too "interesting"
for people who thinks that the 911 is the "ONLY" 911, I would assume you think of yourself as the only "real man" left on earth.
911s serve as a great standard of measurement for high performence cars, but it isnt the only sports car out there. The early 944s turbos are a testament that even Porsche themselves suffer from stiff competition from within. People who dont agree that the cayman will soon meet the level left behind by the 944s are lost in the 1980s. Or maybe Year 911?
I've owned 2 pre 996s in Asia, a 1989 964 C4, and still own a high mileage 993RS which gets tracked at Sepang all the time. I can tell you that the 964s are are unique and special as a pair of bell bottoms.
I owned and drove my 996 MK2 GT3 for 1.5 years and logged a good 14k miles and tracked it at Thunderhill/Sears and Laguna. I can tell you its a great track car, but is it the "only car" out there? NO! The porsche Cayman I drove extensively on roads in Northern California, and the surrounding tracks is amazing for what it can do straight out of the box.
There is no denying that other marques will create unique individual products suited to the taste of differnet drivers and driving situations, there is no perfect car out there, certainly no perfect 911.
I can list a list of pros and cons or create a SWOT analysis for each of the porsches I've owned and driven. 964C4, 993RS, 996C3, 996GT3, Cayman and although a few comes close to perfection in my option, there are always other points about the darker horse that will always seem more attractive.
There are alot of unique porsches within the Porsche lineup right now and before, if you think that there is a unique 911 that is the ultimate and is the best, please go ahead and buy over all the old spares and start a production line to build the "ultimate porsche" I am sure the strong sense of loyalty you show to the particular product will yield extremely promising results.
In the mean time, let us enjoy the joys and benefits of all the other advanced and interesting lineup from Porsches.
this has gotten too "interesting"
for people who thinks that the 911 is the "ONLY" 911, I would assume you think of yourself as the only "real man" left on earth.
911s serve as a great standard of measurement for high performence cars, but it isnt the only sports car out there. The early 944s turbos are a testament that even Porsche themselves suffer from stiff competition from within. People who dont agree that the cayman will soon meet the level left behind by the 944s are lost in the 1980s. Or maybe Year 911?
I've owned 2 pre 996s in Asia, a 1989 964 C4, and still own a high mileage 993RS which gets tracked at Sepang all the time. I can tell you that the 964s are are unique and special as a pair of bell bottoms.
I owned and drove my 996 MK2 GT3 for 1.5 years and logged a good 14k miles and tracked it at Thunderhill/Sears and Laguna. I can tell you its a great track car, but is it the "only car" out there? NO! The porsche Cayman I drove extensively on roads in Northern California, and the surrounding tracks is amazing for what it can do straight out of the box.
There is no denying that other marques will create unique individual products suited to the taste of differnet drivers and driving situations, there is no perfect car out there, certainly no perfect 911.
I can list a list of pros and cons or create a SWOT analysis for each of the porsches I've owned and driven. 964C4, 993RS, 996C3, 996GT3, Cayman and although a few comes close to perfection in my option, there are always other points about the darker horse that will always seem more attractive.
There are alot of unique porsches within the Porsche lineup right now and before, if you think that there is a unique 911 that is the ultimate and is the best, please go ahead and buy over all the old spares and start a production line to build the "ultimate porsche" I am sure the strong sense of loyalty you show to the particular product will yield extremely promising results.
In the mean time, let us enjoy the joys and benefits of all the other advanced and interesting lineup from Porsches.
06-17-2006, 11:49 AM
#41
Many more will tell you otherwise too.... people tend to say how good their cars are once they own them, and do not allow others to criticize them. This is stupid , Some people will say the cayman is nice, some will not. I say it is a nice car, but not as nice as the 911, or possibly the new M coupe.
Mid engine...front engine... don't forget these are all street cars and 99% of us use these cars on the street. These are basically all marketing scams from car companies to sell you a "fantasy". Buy a land rover and you will be driving in the jungles days and nights??
Mid engine...front engine... don't forget these are all street cars and 99% of us use these cars on the street. These are basically all marketing scams from car companies to sell you a "fantasy". Buy a land rover and you will be driving in the jungles days and nights??
Last edited by Cloud964; 06-17-2006 at 12:04 PM.
06-17-2006, 12:31 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by Cloud964
The real thoing? sorry to burst your bubble...but the real thing is the 911
As far as bubble bursting goes.....I've already roasted many 911s including modded versions with the Cayman. If Porsche wouldn't have to baby the 911 along and compromise the abilities of its other cars just to keep the "icon" in place it would be a totally different story. A 3.8L Cayman would kill a 997S. If the 911 layout was so good.....why wasn't the Carrera GT built in the same fashion?......easy answer. I easily could have bought a 911.....I chose the Cayman as it truly is more fun to drive.
06-17-2006, 12:46 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by Budget M3
PCNA marketing couldn't have said it any better...Go to all the BMW lists on the net (I monitor many) and see how many people are always talking about upgrading from a BMW to a Porsche.....and how they all come back and say what a difference there is between the two and how much better a Porsche is as a true sports car.....and how they will never look back. I personally know a good many M3 drivers that have jumped to a Cayman S and couldn't be happier and can't believe the all around difference.
Then go and monitor some of the many other Porsche lists out there and see how many people are really unhappy with their Porsche and are crying for their BMW back.....that is if you can find any. I'm willing to bet you won't find many....if at all, and those that are thinking of it will be due to them wanting to save money.
06-17-2006, 01:15 PM
#44
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I agree with the Croc guy on the BMW -> Porsche -> BMW thing. I once traded in a 40th Anniversary 911 for an M3 SMG Coupe. Mainly because I needed a clutchless tranny and some usable back seats. Then less than 6 months later I traded the M3 for a 987S. Now I'm back in a 996TT. Going from a Porsche to a BMW is definitely a downgrade. BMW's are nice cars though. Just not the same mojo.
06-17-2006, 02:06 PM
#45
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by Cloud964
... people tend to say how good their cars are once they own them, and do not allow others to criticize them. This is stupid ,
so are you trying to praise the Cayman or the M Coupe or 911s in general?