STLPCA

As you can see the rpm level at which the limiter intervenes is raised allowing a bit more before a shift is needed. On some tracks that may mean the difference between having to short shift. Save a shift = faster. [Excerpt from Porsche's Boxster Dealer Book as cross referenced from the Cayman Dealer Book]

STLPCA

LOL. Come on Pete. You're straining your credibility. Your premise was SC is "not so great at the track." Now after many days & many posts you've finally conceded that a capably driven Cayman with SC "should be faster" than one without SC. That should be the end of story if we are addressing track performance.

Obviously, YMMV applies to most any track enhancement depending on driver capability. I may be slower on Hoosiers than you are on stock PS2s, but that doesn't mean that Hoosiers are "not so great at the track."

BTW, not that it is relevant here, but your "jump" analogy is misplaced. We are not talking about driver reaction time, but rather the percentage of throttle opening resulting from a given amount of throttle pedal movement. I still say SC makes the throttle more responsive, which as you've noted might not be a good thing.

Anyway, it's from discussions like these that we all learn. I know I have.
Peace.

1AS

Pete,
I think your graph suggests that the standard throttle map has a large dead spot between 0-20% open (possibly useful for creeping in your garage or parking lot). After that point, the slope is nearly identical, indicating identical throttle maps. The sport setting gives you full throttle with 20% of travel remaining. I don't see where the S setting would be worse on the track, since the first "dead" 20% in the pedal travel is just something you"d have to push past. You do compress the entire throttle inot about 60-70% of the throttle travel, but so what? Gas-throttle opening relationship is the same relationship after the dead zone. I've driven 500+hp race cars that have about 1.5 inches of travel.
I think side-by-side tests show that once the driver is skilled, switching off the PSM is faster (see this month's Grass Roots Motorsports) AS

pstoppani

FYI - It isn't my graph, it is Porsche's graph from the Boxster Product Information brochure. It is an oversimplification, there is no dead spot.

pstoppani

I don't think I'm stretching my credibility at all.

I expressed an opinion that I didn't like SC and would't buy it again.

At this point, my main complaint remains that the throttle is too abrupt when transitioning from trail braking back on the throttle and for that reason I would not want SC ON.

I admit I am tainted by the truly poor Sport mode on the M3 which was replaced by the Cayman and I may have jumped to a conclusion that the throttle map is as bad as on the M3 without giving it a chance because turning it off made the car drive the way I wanted.

Based on Ernie's comments I will try driving with it ON at my next track day in May to see if the issue is with how I am applying the throttle during that transition.

The reason I said a very skilled driver would be faster with it is because you showed me that I had misunderstood one aspect of SC, that it delays PSM intervention even more when SC is ON. I'd bet that a really good race driver would be faster with SC ON and PSM OFF than with a car that did not have SC). It is a rare driver that drives this close to the limit at an HPDE; I certainly strive to be that good.

So, my current perspective is that "SC ON and PSM ON" is not very useful for an experienced driver. The Chrono function is useless. It seems there is value to "SC ON and PSM OFF" which should be beneficial. Throttle seems too jerky in throttle OFF to ON transition.

Based on that, I would order SC again; I have more to exploer and learn with it than I realised. And in the end, it probably helps with resale value.

I too have learned some really interesting things; mainly that SC ON and PSM OFF might be of use if I can figure out how to smooth out the throttle off to on transition. Then of course I need to get closer to the limit during trail braking to take advantage of SC ON/ PSM OFF

Thanks

pstoppani

My interpretation of the graph is different and supports my statement that the REV Limit is not raised. The graph clearly shows that in both modes you will reach 7200 RPM before the limiter is hit, and in both modes the limiter holds the engine at 7200 RPM.

What SC in OFF does is it eases the hit by starting to back off the throttle a bit sooner, but it does not cut the throttle completely, thus allowing the car to hit 7200RPM. Therefore, you still are not forced into a shift.

Without knowing the time from initial throttle backoff to full REV Limiter, one can't easily tell how much time this saves with SC ON.

So, SC ON does not save you a shift. In some cases it will actually force a shift because you can hit the limiter faster in SC ON vs SC OFF.

Seems like a wash in general.

soltino

Is there a good analogy to be made from the short shifter making the shifts quicker and more precise?

i.e.: it can be argued that a regular shifter just has to be shifted quicker to equal the short, just as the pedal just has to be pressed faster to be equal.

tino

Jim Michaels

If the driver with the shorter throw shifts just as fast as the driver with the longer throw, who gets into gear quickest? I think the way to bet would be on the guy with the shorter throw. All you guys with the short throw, please shift slower so I can keep up. Thank you for your consideration.

pstoppani

UPDATE: I had a chance to drive the Cayman S at a different track and the twitchiness of the throttle was not noticable so I can see how different tracks will affect whether or not one feels the throttle is twitchy or not.

Recently a friend that races a GT3 Cup car in PCA club racing bought a Cayman S and took it to the same track as I drove previously; he had the same comments on the throttle being twitchy in Sport mode.

So, after driving at more tracks and more seat time, I agree with others that the throttle is much better than the on/off feel that M3's have in Sport Mode. Porsche's Sport Mode is much more usable.

I still think the Sport Chrono Package is a waste of money, but I definitely don't dislike it as much as I did at the beginning...

YMMV

charlieXS

My local dealer has a stripped Arctic Silver Cay... 60K sticker

zumaron

For those of you with PASM & SC, what is your experience with PASM in sport mode (stiffer suspension) on the track?

FTS

I feel it is near perfect. Granted you cannot adjust front/rear balance of compression or rebound and cannot adjust your ride height (though there is a way with minor mods), for a factory suspension, I do not think I can ask for more. The tracks that I drive are not terribly bumpy and these shocks don't skip a beat.

Jim Michaels

I agree with FT above. Although PASM and SC won't be the hot setup for racing, the combo seems just about perfect for my road, track, and autocross applications. I wish we could get more negative camber in front, however.

FT: How do you adjust ride height with minor mods? I assume you mean some way other than with lowering springs.

zumaron

Initially I ran the track with SC & PASM off to get a feel for the car and thought it handle quite well. The suspension will adapt to aggressive driving situations.

Lately, I've been experimenting with the variety of combinations provided by SC & PASM and the 997 handles very well with PASM in sport mode (stiffer). As mentioned by others, track quality has a considerable effect on ride quality. I'm still getting accustomed to the increased throttle sensitivity.

There was a Cayman out the track and the driver/car was running very smooth. I heard a few drivers talking about how often they saw him in their mirror. I'm looking forward to getting behind the wheel of one in the near future.

ringmeister

I'm looking at buying a Cayman S to use as an occasional street car and occasional drive to the track, run it and drive home DE car when I don't want to deal with trailering so this thread is interesting to me. I live in a state with crappy roads so I definitely want the PASM but I'm on the fence about the sport chrono. I have tracked my M5 in P500 Sport and found the hair trigger throttle to be quite nice. I have over 20 years and 150 races with SCCA and BMWCCA among tons of open track and DE events so yes, I'd say I can drive the car at the limit but I'm still not sure about which way to go on ordering the sport chrono. If I turn the sport mode off is it like having the car without the option at all or does it still function in some way?