Does anyone know the specifics on how to keys actually work?
11-01-2023, 08:13 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Does anyone know the specifics on how to keys actually work?
After doing some research I found a few tid bits about how the coded key works but I cannot find the answers to the following questions. Does anyone know?
So what I have learned is: The ignition lock itself is the reader for the key.
My question about this is. After the ignition lock reads the key, does the ignition lock tell the ECU that it is ok to start the car OR Does the ignition lock simply pass on the code read from the key to the ECU, and then the ECU looks at its list of allowed codes and when it has a match will start the car?
It also appears there are 2 sides to the key. the side that starts the car and the side that makes the buttons work. And if you have one key that starts the car and one key where the buttons work.. You can not swap the Starter RF chip and have one working key. It simply doesn't work. Trust me, I've tried.
If anyone has more detail about this please share. 3 cars now with this system and I'm sick of spending $500 a key.
Thanks
Kyle
So what I have learned is: The ignition lock itself is the reader for the key.
My question about this is. After the ignition lock reads the key, does the ignition lock tell the ECU that it is ok to start the car OR Does the ignition lock simply pass on the code read from the key to the ECU, and then the ECU looks at its list of allowed codes and when it has a match will start the car?
It also appears there are 2 sides to the key. the side that starts the car and the side that makes the buttons work. And if you have one key that starts the car and one key where the buttons work.. You can not swap the Starter RF chip and have one working key. It simply doesn't work. Trust me, I've tried.
If anyone has more detail about this please share. 3 cars now with this system and I'm sick of spending $500 a key.
Thanks
Kyle
11-02-2023, 03:25 AM
#2
I would be interested to know as well as my Cayman came with only 1 key.
I wonder if these keys could simply be cloned to a blank transponder chip and you wouldn't really need to program the ECU with the new key? That's an option for many other manufacturers. Since these cars don't have user 1, 2 presets, it shouldn't have any usability impacts if you have say 2 Key 1's laying around starting the car.
I wonder if these keys could simply be cloned to a blank transponder chip and you wouldn't really need to program the ECU with the new key? That's an option for many other manufacturers. Since these cars don't have user 1, 2 presets, it shouldn't have any usability impacts if you have say 2 Key 1's laying around starting the car.
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lightguy (11-12-2023)
11-02-2023, 10:59 AM
#4
RL Community Team
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When you say you can't swap the starter-key RF chip to another body, what exactly did you swap? The reason is that there is a small RFID chip that is black and hard to see, and it's NOT part of the circuit board. This is the chip that allows the car to start/not-start. This is what the ECU is looking for. If you pull the board AND the little RFID "pill" and move them to the new key body, then it should work (many people do this with bodies purchased on ebay and such). Do a search and you can learn more about this... for example: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...spare-key.html
That post also has info about a cheaper spare key method that might work for you
As far as I can tell, the ignition module does read the key, but the ECU decides if the car can be started. I don't think the ignition module does any "thinking" on the code. This is because people have replaced the ignition module without having to deal with the coding issues of the security system.
Also, as @Giveroflight mentioned, there are locksmiths that can handle the process for less than the dealer. The dealer certainly is expensive for this work.
That post also has info about a cheaper spare key method that might work for you
As far as I can tell, the ignition module does read the key, but the ECU decides if the car can be started. I don't think the ignition module does any "thinking" on the code. This is because people have replaced the ignition module without having to deal with the coding issues of the security system.
Also, as @Giveroflight mentioned, there are locksmiths that can handle the process for less than the dealer. The dealer certainly is expensive for this work.
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Shark Attack (11-02-2023)
11-02-2023, 05:31 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
When you say you can't swap the starter-key RF chip to another body, what exactly did you swap? The reason is that there is a small RFID chip that is black and hard to see, and it's NOT part of the circuit board. This is the chip that allows the car to start/not-start. This is what the ECU is looking for. If you pull the board AND the little RFID "pill" and move them to the new key body, then it should work (many people do this with bodies purchased on ebay and such). Do a search and you can learn more about this... for example: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...spare-key.html
That post also has info about a cheaper spare key method that might work for you
As far as I can tell, the ignition module does read the key, but the ECU decides if the car can be started. I don't think the ignition module does any "thinking" on the code. This is because people have replaced the ignition module without having to deal with the coding issues of the security system.
Also, as @Giveroflight mentioned, there are locksmiths that can handle the process for less than the dealer. The dealer certainly is expensive for this work.
That post also has info about a cheaper spare key method that might work for you
As far as I can tell, the ignition module does read the key, but the ECU decides if the car can be started. I don't think the ignition module does any "thinking" on the code. This is because people have replaced the ignition module without having to deal with the coding issues of the security system.
Also, as @Giveroflight mentioned, there are locksmiths that can handle the process for less than the dealer. The dealer certainly is expensive for this work.
Last edited by Shark Attack; 11-02-2023 at 05:39 PM.
11-02-2023, 05:34 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Yes dealer pricing. I'm in the middle of the desert, one of 3 Porsches in town, the only Cayman. Our locksmith thinks it is Martian technology. My closest dealer is Vegas 5 hours away
11-03-2023, 10:47 AM
#7
RL Community Team
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Ok, just wanted to make sure you had the pill as well.
Is the other key the same cut as the working one? I believe there is a valet key option, and if the other one is cut that way, then maybe the pill from a standard key won't work? Just a WAG...
Many have done the pill-swap from old to new keys, cut from the original, and this has worked, so something else certainly seems to be going on here. I wonder if orientation of the pill matters?
It might be worth testing the key with the pill held near the ignition, to just kinda separate the operation. If that works, then you can more-easily test other keys (without the pill inserted) and see what does/doesn't work more granularly?
You may have to just bite the bullet and pay the dealer fee, and get the second key made. Alternatively, you could try an online service to have a duplicate made (might be cheaper) but it would take a little while to have that turned around... still, could be worth it to be without the car for a week or so?
Is the other key the same cut as the working one? I believe there is a valet key option, and if the other one is cut that way, then maybe the pill from a standard key won't work? Just a WAG...
Many have done the pill-swap from old to new keys, cut from the original, and this has worked, so something else certainly seems to be going on here. I wonder if orientation of the pill matters?
It might be worth testing the key with the pill held near the ignition, to just kinda separate the operation. If that works, then you can more-easily test other keys (without the pill inserted) and see what does/doesn't work more granularly?
You may have to just bite the bullet and pay the dealer fee, and get the second key made. Alternatively, you could try an online service to have a duplicate made (might be cheaper) but it would take a little while to have that turned around... still, could be worth it to be without the car for a week or so?
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11-06-2023, 10:32 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ok, just wanted to make sure you had the pill as well.
Is the other key the same cut as the working one? I believe there is a valet key option, and if the other one is cut that way, then maybe the pill from a standard key won't work? Just a WAG...
Many have done the pill-swap from old to new keys, cut from the original, and this has worked, so something else certainly seems to be going on here. I wonder if orientation of the pill matters?
It might be worth testing the key with the pill held near the ignition, to just kinda separate the operation. If that works, then you can more-easily test other keys (without the pill inserted) and see what does/doesn't work more granularly?
You may have to just bite the bullet and pay the dealer fee, and get the second key made. Alternatively, you could try an online service to have a duplicate made (might be cheaper) but it would take a little while to have that turned around... still, could be worth it to be without the car for a week or so?
Is the other key the same cut as the working one? I believe there is a valet key option, and if the other one is cut that way, then maybe the pill from a standard key won't work? Just a WAG...
Many have done the pill-swap from old to new keys, cut from the original, and this has worked, so something else certainly seems to be going on here. I wonder if orientation of the pill matters?
It might be worth testing the key with the pill held near the ignition, to just kinda separate the operation. If that works, then you can more-easily test other keys (without the pill inserted) and see what does/doesn't work more granularly?
You may have to just bite the bullet and pay the dealer fee, and get the second key made. Alternatively, you could try an online service to have a duplicate made (might be cheaper) but it would take a little while to have that turned around... still, could be worth it to be without the car for a week or so?
11-06-2023, 02:02 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ok, just wanted to make sure you had the pill as well.
Is the other key the same cut as the working one? I believe there is a valet key option, and if the other one is cut that way, then maybe the pill from a standard key won't work? Just a WAG...
Many have done the pill-swap from old to new keys, cut from the original, and this has worked, so something else certainly seems to be going on here. I wonder if orientation of the pill matters?
It might be worth testing the key with the pill held near the ignition, to just kinda separate the operation. If that works, then you can more-easily test other keys (without the pill inserted) and see what does/doesn't work more granularly?
You may have to just bite the bullet and pay the dealer fee, and get the second key made. Alternatively, you could try an online service to have a duplicate made (might be cheaper) but it would take a little while to have that turned around... still, could be worth it to be without the car for a week or so?
Is the other key the same cut as the working one? I believe there is a valet key option, and if the other one is cut that way, then maybe the pill from a standard key won't work? Just a WAG...
Many have done the pill-swap from old to new keys, cut from the original, and this has worked, so something else certainly seems to be going on here. I wonder if orientation of the pill matters?
It might be worth testing the key with the pill held near the ignition, to just kinda separate the operation. If that works, then you can more-easily test other keys (without the pill inserted) and see what does/doesn't work more granularly?
You may have to just bite the bullet and pay the dealer fee, and get the second key made. Alternatively, you could try an online service to have a duplicate made (might be cheaper) but it would take a little while to have that turned around... still, could be worth it to be without the car for a week or so?
had to be changed. The cut in the blades were different however both turned the ignition but only one started the car and it had to be with the correct pill. Tricky tricky.
it wasn't a matter of paying. I knew paying was a part of ownership. Ha... it's that the dealer is 5 hours away.
Last edited by Shark Attack; 11-06-2023 at 02:03 PM.
11-11-2023, 10:44 AM
#10
RL Community Team
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Sorry, had a busy week.... so did you fix the issue? Sounds like you had to swap the pill and blade, am I hearing that correctly?
Interesting that the other blade turns it. Again, maybe it's a valet key or something like that? I don't know what these cars came with (mine is used).. but maybe a door-only key?
Interesting that the other blade turns it. Again, maybe it's a valet key or something like that? I don't know what these cars came with (mine is used).. but maybe a door-only key?
11-12-2023, 04:57 PM
#11
Car Keys Express.
They also sell a kit to DIY for $250 but after two failed attempts went the full service route for $50 more. You need one good key for this option.
The guy also got the original failed key to work for free.
I reflashed my 2005 Mercedes Sprinter ECU that had an option to eliminate the security chip.
Last edited by lightguy; 11-12-2023 at 04:58 PM.
11-15-2023, 04:46 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Sorry, had a busy week.... so did you fix the issue? Sounds like you had to swap the pill and blade, am I hearing that correctly?
Interesting that the other blade turns it. Again, maybe it's a valet key or something like that? I don't know what these cars came with (mine is used).. but maybe a door-only key?
Interesting that the other blade turns it. Again, maybe it's a valet key or something like that? I don't know what these cars came with (mine is used).. but maybe a door-only key?