Notices
987 Forum Discussion about the Cayman/Boxster variants (2004-2012)
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

987.2 Engine issues after rear control module reprogram

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-29-2022, 08:14 PM
  #1  
ebirck
Intermediate
Thread Starter
 
ebirck's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Unhappy 987.2 Engine issues after rear control module reprogram

Hello!

I recently purchased my first Porsche, a 2010 Boxster S, and for the first few months I couldn't be happier, but alas I should've educated myself more because I fell victim to the seemingly ubiquitous clogged-drains-shorting-electrical-systems issue. There were some heavy rains in my area the other week, and where I work didn't have anywhere to park under cover, so that was enough to get water where it should've have been. The original symptom was that my brake lights were stuck on when I went to leave work. Since I didn't know about the drain issue at this point, I thought it may be an issue with the brake pedal switch. So I spent 10-15 min fiddling with that, plugging unplugging, manually triggering, etc. before deciding to just take it home slowly with the hazards on and deal with it on the weekend. On the way home I started getting several other issues: the top kept trying to go down, so I unlatched it hoping it wouldn't burn out the motors and it flew open, I got error messages about stability control, top control, and spoiler control (which I noticed at this point was stuck up), and to top it off the security horn went off (my apologies to the neighborhood I was driving through when that happened...). After much stress, I managed to park at home and left the battery disconnected to prevent it from draining and going haywire without me. I was also happy to find the plug for the security horn was right next to the battery, so I shut that up.

Fast forward to the weekend, I took the car to my local Porsche dealer and became privy to the whole drains issue. They determined that was the issue, and quoted $2200 to clean the drains, dry the carpets, and replace the rear control module (under the driver seat). I consider myself fairly handy, and faced with a $500 charge to clean the drains alone, I figured I'd do what I can first and come back for the rest. So I bought a new control module on eBay for $250, dried out the carpets and cleaned the drains myself (luckily we had some 95+ F days last week so that helped dry things out). After putting in the new module I had a fully functional car again, minus two relatively minor things: my key fobs wouldn't work to lock/unlock the car - totally livable - but more importantly my top still wouldn't go up/down. I could care less about the manual door lock/unlock, but not having the top control seemed too dangerous should I get caught in another unexpected rain storm, so I decided to take the car back to Porsche at this point for the programming. I should point out at this point that up until this point this car has driven perfectly, not a single engine issue, and I even have the inspection from Porsche supporting this (it was my first time taking it to them so I had them do a full inspection while diagnosing the original issues).

Porsche programmed the module, but unfortunately it wasn't entirely successful. The top still wouldn't move when they tried. They say the motor is clearly trying, but the top isn't moving, they think maybe the gears sheered when it was on the fritz before I brought it in (remember it was trying while still latched for a bit). Not ideal, but fine. This was intended to be a cheap first Porsche for me, so I was already prepared to just pop the control rods on the top and treat it like a manual top. Certainly better than the $3-4k they said it could be to replace the gears. And here again, I'd probably take a crack at it myself first anyway. I've seen some videos on here showing DIY gear repair, and I'd much rather learn something and save a buck then bend over and accept whatever Porsche says it costs. On a more expensive car, sure, but for a $20k car $4k for an automatic top isn't worth it for me. Anyway...

When I picked up my car from Porsche, the key fobs also still didn't work (they hadn't mentioned that over the phone), but the service manager just chalked it up to other electrical issues at play and that I'd have to pay for a further inspection to figure that out. Okay, no problem, as I mentioned I can live without that. When I went to pull away though, I noticed it took a little longer than normal to start (typically it would start on the first crank, this time it was maybe the 3rd). I didn't think much of this at the time, 3rd crank is still plenty fast, maybe the battery drained a bit while they were working on it. I didn't say anything, and drove off. However as soon as I got onto the highway and gave her some throttle to get up to speed, I noticed it felt severely underpowered. I got back off the highway so I could hear better (top still stuck down), and what it originally felt/sounded like was as if the clutch was completely shot - if I gave it any more than a quarter throttle it felt like something was spinning out (almost like I was breaking the wheels free). After the initial fear dissipated, I realized how irrational that was, if something was slipping the engine would've been revving up, but in this case it wasn't - it was just acting severely underpowered. Starting and stopping though I did realize the crank time was getting longer and longer. There were no additional error lights or messages at this point to lend insight either. So then I figured maybe there are still electrical issues, thinking back to the stability control error, if the car thought I was slipping and was limiting the engine, maybe that could be the cause? Either way I decided to take it easy and just bring it home. About half way home I finally got a check engine error and the car went into limp mode. I pulled over for gas and gave Porsche a call but their service center had already closed, so I'm waiting until probably Tuesday (after Memorial day) for a response as to what could be the issue. In the meantime I (slowly) finished my drive home. By the time I got home it sounded like the engine was sputtering anytime I tried to accelerate, and once or twice I got kicked forward by what felt like a misfire. Admittedly I haven't done much engine work, so I could be wrong there. When I was home I checked my OBD scanner, which says the car was throwing codes P1021 and P1026, "Fuel system too rich" and "Fuel pressure implausible". Before anyone asks, yes I only use 93 octane, and I did fill up on the way home but the bulk of these issues were already occurring before that point.

So everything considered, between the long crank times to start (we're now at about 5 seconds before it starts), the lack of power, and the P1021/P1026 error codes, my guess is whichever control unit manages either the air/fuel ratio (presumably the ECU?) or the sensors that report to that system must've also gotten water damage? The weird thing about all this to me is just how coincidental all of it is. Of course I'm not accusing Porsche of doing anything wrong, but I had driven my car a few times before having them program the module and never had any such issues. All of this happened directly after the new module was programmed. My only other thought with that considered was that maybe certain systems weren't powered up until after the programming, and so after programming was the first time they received power again and only then did they short out? I'm just confused how the car could've been completely fine (minus the top and key fobs) for well over a week and then as soon as the rear control module is programmed new problems show up. Even if there was still water somewhere in the car, it seems too coincidental that it would've waiting that long to show symptoms - Porsche didn't even have my car on a lift or some other situation where water couldn't sloshed somewhere it would've have been. So anyway, very long winded way of asking if anyone has had similar issues, or suggestions of what I should check next? Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!
-Eric
Old 05-29-2022, 11:54 PM
  #2  
hueyhoolihan
Pro
 
hueyhoolihan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 659
Received 206 Likes on 161 Posts
Default

can't help with the problem, but i would be wondering if the previous owner had some kind of "performance" engine work done on it. you know, hardware and/or software that appeals to the 'Y' chromosome in most porsche owners.
Old 05-30-2022, 12:03 AM
  #3  
ebirck
Intermediate
Thread Starter
 
ebirck's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

That’s an interesting thought, could maybe justify a fritz after reprogramming, afaik everything is/was stock though. I didn’t know the previous owner (dealer car), but I gather they weren’t too into that side of things. The car was single owner, 94k miles, well loved but clearly baby’d.

To be honest, if there’s no simple solution I’m tempted to go down that road myself. If I’m gonna have to gut the car and redo a bunch of electronics, might as well just leave out the panels and make a great track car out of it. Would be a fun project, but we’ll see, I knew I’d do something eventually but wasn’t planning to this soon…
Old 05-30-2022, 07:56 AM
  #4  
Schwinn
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
 
Schwinn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: CT
Posts: 636
Received 188 Likes on 139 Posts
Default

These cars are very sensitive to low/old battery situations. The damaged control module could have drained the battery, leaving you in a poor state for the electrical system. This can also damage the battery to the point of where it won't reliably hold a charge. Generally, if the battery is older than 5 years, I'd recommend replacing it. Testing or charging it often leads to a false-positive for a good battery... you really need to ensure this is good to begin with.

For the top, I would certainly disconnect the ball joints and run it manually for now. I might even go so far as to disconnect any plugs on the motors/transmissions so that they aren't even powered up at any time.

S models also have the potential risk of bore scoring. Not that this would be caused by water intrusion, but if you didn't know about it or haven't checked for it, I would make sure that is not a secondary issue. I wouldn't expect the power to drop this quickly either, but it's something to be aware of on that version.

What OBD scanner are you using? Porsche has a lot of weird behavior with standard OBD scanners, leading to misdiagnosed issues. P0xxx codes are generic codes, but P1xxx are manufacturer specific, so I would not trust any text-translation from a generic reader for these codes. From my quick searching, these may be related to the HPFP, which I think makes sense, since the S motor on your car is a DFI? Issues with that would certainly cause a loss of power.

If you plan on keeping the car, I would recommend a Foxwell NT530 OBD scanner, with the Porsche add-on installed. This scanner can do a lot with the 987.2 cars, including programming modules... and it will give you a more reliable translation for the manufacturer specific codes.

Keep posting here... I'm sure others can help out with your issues as well... but drying out and replacing the wet rear module is certainly a good start!
Old 05-30-2022, 09:09 AM
  #5  
ekam
Drifting
 
ekam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,076
Received 509 Likes on 325 Posts
Default

Sounds like HPFP to me also, mine also went bad around the same mileage. Not a cheap job as the pump is facing the firewall unlike on a 997.
Old 05-30-2022, 11:42 AM
  #6  
vanlieremead
Rennlist Member
 
vanlieremead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 874
Received 300 Likes on 205 Posts
Default

It could be the high pressure fuel pump but I’d still exhaust all the electronics issues. Most of us though are in the blind without wiring schematics and system descriptions. If this is your keeper project car (I assume you still like the looks of it) an investment in some manuals may be warranted. Sometimes we only find the issue through elimination. For example, can you unplug the module under the seat and if so, does that make a difference? The battery suggestion is good. Your battery should be between 12.4 and 12.6 resting for 30 minutes.
Old 05-30-2022, 12:59 PM
  #7  
ebirck
Intermediate
Thread Starter
 
ebirck's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Thanks for all the suggestions, I’ll definitely check the HPFP, and see about a better OBD scanner. My scanner is just a cheapo, I can check the model in a bit but it didn’t even have lookups for the P1 codes, I just googled them for the names I mentioned above.

I do plan to keep the car at least for now, I got it fairly cheap so I expected I’d have to do some extra work over time.

As for things I’ve tried, the battery reads 12.3 at accessory on position, and 13.4-13.6 when the engine is on, so I didn’t think that’d be an issue. I’ll check another battery to be sure, can I just run off jumper cables from another car to test or does it have to be another specific Porsche battery?

I did try running without the module plugged in, no change. I also tried pulling the fuse for that module and for the traction control, neither had an effect. So I’m fairly certain it’s not the traction control wrongly firing, definitely leaning towards the HPFP or a related sensor issue. Are there any specific control modules for that I can check for water damage? Or is that all controlled directly by the ECU?
Old 05-30-2022, 01:01 PM
  #8  
ebirck
Intermediate
Thread Starter
 
ebirck's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Ah, OBD scanner is an Ancel AD310
Old 05-30-2022, 06:13 PM
  #9  
Schwinn
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
 
Schwinn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: CT
Posts: 636
Received 188 Likes on 139 Posts
Default

Check the age of the battery - I've seen far too many posts here with people checking voltages and still having issues. There should be a date code on it. Again, if it's about 5 or more years old, get a new one. Doesn't have to be Porsche branded - you can get a standard battery from many places. While you're working on the car, I would also suggest a battery tender to keep the voltage up, so you're not chasing those issues over time.

Yes, you could use a secondary battery in theory, but if either battery is drawing down the electrical system, adding jumper cables won't help... because the charge will be driven to the weaker battery. In a pinch, this may be fine, but just get a new battery... it's the far easier answer, honestly.

13.4-13.6 seems low to me when the car is running, which further implies a dying battery, IMO. I see 14+ when running. HOWEVER, note that the car will adjust voltage and charge voltages while running... so you can't just take a single reading like that anyway.

@vanlieremead has a good suggestion as well, if you're going to dig in deeper. I've also heard good things about the AllDataDIY subscriptions, which may be a lower cost option and easier to work with (I prefer electronic data, myself).

I agree, settle the electronics first before chasing the HPFP...
Old 05-31-2022, 01:30 PM
  #10  
ZuffenZeus
Nordschleife Master
 
ZuffenZeus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Zuffenhausen, Georgia
Posts: 5,339
Received 1,885 Likes on 1,032 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ebirck
Porsche didn't even have my car on a lift or some other situation where water couldn't sloshed somewhere it would've have been. So anyway, very long winded way of asking if anyone has had similar issues, or suggestions of what I should check next? Any help is appreciated.
Thanks!
-Eric
Eric, sorry to hear about this story. I totally empathize with you. I've had the same problem, but I decided to suck it up and paid the price to have the module(s) replaced and the car corrected. Water is a cruel villain that loves to take out as many electrical parts as possible and leave you on the side of the road. I definitely learned my lesson about drains on these cars as well as my other cars. We love our convertible and sunroof luxuries, but if we don't watch those drains like a hawk, environmental crud and biofilm can build up just like a clogged kitchen sink. The consequence is water ingress and a pool in our floorboard. Why modern manufacturers still put modules under the seat is beyond me.

Unless I'm mistaken, the rear control module doesn't control the security aspects (remote access to doors/hatch, frunk, etc. and alarm/immobilizer) of the 987. That is handled by the security module. If the remote doesn't work to lock or unlock the door, then you can still start the car because the RFID inside the key fob is still functional and doing it's part. I assume both keys worked to remotely unlock and lock the doors BEFORE the water problem? That would tell me the security module is malfunctioning and may need reprogramming and/or replacement.

Since your Porsche dealership couldn't get the top to open after the programming, tells me that the problem may now be mechanical not electrical. The fact that it was trying to forcibly open with resistance tells me something mechanical could now be broken. I've replaced many motors in the past where the gears inside with stripped.

The rough running is again a totally different problem all together. As I said, water is a cruel villain that loves to create all kinds of electrical gremlins. My best advice is to make sure the car is completely dried out. Check simple things like inside the air filter housing, clean the MAF, look for water pooled around the battery area, etc. etc.

When it comes to modules, you could send them to ECU doctors if you didn't want to pay the dealer price. How much did they charge you to reprogram the rear control module? Shame they couldn't get the top to work. Did they not find out WHY the motor and top apparatus wasn't working correctly to open the top? I see there was speculation, but no definite reason? That's a shame you had to leave the dealership and the problem wasn't corrected. Honestly, I'm surprised they even agreed to program the used module you purchased. A lot of dealerships wouldn't even fool with it.
Old 05-31-2022, 05:55 PM
  #11  
ebirck
Intermediate
Thread Starter
 
ebirck's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Yeah I'll certainly pay closer attention to those drains going forward... price of ignorance.

It was my impression that the under-seat module was the security module for the 987.2, at least that seems to be what the dealer implied. They needed both my keys to reprogram it, and kept referring to it as the "Security Module"; and yes we were definitely both referring to the under-driver-seat module, so afaik they programmed the right thing... Yes both keys worked fine to remotely lock/unlock before the water issue.

I agree, top sounds mechanical at this point - probably stripped gears from trying to open while still latched. Porsche didn't determine why, just said it didn't work when they tried and I could pay more to find out lol. Reprogramming was $220, an hour's work. Better than the other Porsche dealer in my area which quoted $350, but if I knew I could do it myself I would've; I thought I'd need a $750+ Piwis. But I'll dive into the top eventually, first objective is just getting the engine happy again. Right now I'd gladly take what I had before I went for reprogramming...

For the engine, I'll pull all the carpets again and make extra sure everything is dry - probably leave it in the garage with a dehumidifier running for a week, maybe leave a hair drier blowing in the critical spots for a while. We had some really hot days the first time and I dried it out outside so I was pretty confident it would be dry, but I only gave it a few days before moving back inside. I checked with Porsche again and they're going to check with the Technician that handled the car, in case they noticed anything they didn't report, but their best bet was corrosion - I'll check all the under seat wiring and connectors again. Hopefully it's just electrical and not HPFP or anything too expensive on the engine itself.

Unfortunately I won't have much time to work on it again until this weekend - but I'll update as I go.
Old 05-31-2022, 10:57 PM
  #12  
ZuffenZeus
Nordschleife Master
 
ZuffenZeus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Zuffenhausen, Georgia
Posts: 5,339
Received 1,885 Likes on 1,032 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ebirck
It was my impression that the under-seat module was the security module for the 987.2, at least that seems to be what the dealer implied. They needed both my keys to reprogram it, and kept referring to it as the "Security Module"; and yes we were definitely both referring to the under-driver-seat module, so afaik they programmed the right thing... Yes both keys worked fine to remotely lock/unlock before the water issue.
Unless I'm seeing something different on the parts diagram. The security module is a totally different part from the "rear control module" that you replaced and is shared with the 997 - part#: 997.618.172.19 or #5 in the diagram.

https://www.porscheatlantaperimeterp...761817219.html





Last edited by ZuffenZeus; 05-31-2022 at 11:02 PM.
Old 05-31-2022, 11:14 PM
  #13  
ebirck
Intermediate
Thread Starter
 
ebirck's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Huh, yeah I see what you're saying. The part I replaced was 997.618.260.08, seems slightly different for the 08-12 model years (987.2), all the parts on that link say 05-08 (987.1), maybe the security module also changed for the 987.2? I can ask Porsche again tomorrow to confirm what they programmed...
Old 05-31-2022, 11:26 PM
  #14  
ZuffenZeus
Nordschleife Master
 
ZuffenZeus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Zuffenhausen, Georgia
Posts: 5,339
Received 1,885 Likes on 1,032 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ebirck
Huh, yeah I see what you're saying. The part I replaced was 997.618.260.08, seems slightly different for the 08-12 model years (987.2), all the parts on that link say 05-08 (987.1), maybe the security module also changed for the 987.2? I can ask Porsche again tomorrow to confirm what they programmed...
The search query said that part was compatible with the 2010 987.2 Boxster. (see image from Porsche of Atlanta) That security module part has been revised several times during the 987 generation.




But the rear control module part is listed as #23 as shown in the parts diagram and officially part# 997.618.260.08 as you've noted.




That being said, I think the part in question is NOT the rear control module. It's the security module that is problematic and probably needs to be replaced and reprogrammed. I've owned three Porsches and have read many stories of these modules causing all kinds of weird issues with the car.

Regarding the top, I believe the techs need to closely evaluate the convertible top's mechanism for problems. Personally, I think the rear control module is doing it's job correctly. Something else is causing the problem. IMHO.

Keep us updated!


Last edited by ZuffenZeus; 06-01-2022 at 09:49 AM.
Old 06-01-2022, 08:15 AM
  #15  
Schwinn
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
 
Schwinn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: CT
Posts: 636
Received 188 Likes on 139 Posts
Default

Careful with the hair dryer. Even on low, they can get rather hot... and if the airflow is blocked then it can get even hotter... I would hate to hear you started a fire because of that!

I might suggest just opening up the module and seeing what it looks like inside. You may need to simply clean it up and it could recover.

There is a company that seems to be working on a waterproof box for this module... it's not listed for sale yet, but it might be something to consider:
Given the problems I hear about this, I would certainly be interested in such a box for my car, even though I haven't had any issues. In your case, they could even be a place to refurb your module, if needed...


Quick Reply: 987.2 Engine issues after rear control module reprogram



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 04:34 AM.