dan_man

Im having a strange issue with my recently purchased 987.1 2006 Cayman S, The car has 44k miles and was pretty well taken care of, but likely is using the original clutch based on documentation I have from the previous owner.

Symptoms:
-Difficulty going into 1st, second, and reverse gear. Really takes some force to shove it into gear at a stoplight. Sometimes all gears are difficult to engage when engine is running, the car has popped out of gear and/or grinded a handful of times.
-car shifts very well and smoothly when engine is off, indicating that shifter cables are in good condition to me.
-The clutch engagement point is at the very bottom of the pedal travel, meaning it needs to be pushed down ALL the way for the clutch to disengage.
-I have not noticed any clutch slippage, it seems to work fine, it almost feels like its disengaging just enough to work, but not enough for the trans to feel good.
-pumping the pedal doesn't do much, MAYBE helps it get into gear
-car is still very much drivable in this condition, although a tad uncomfortable in terms of shifter operation.

Attempts to remedy problems:
-Bled the Clutch hydraulics using power bleeder, seems to have bled properly.
-Replaced the clutch slave cylinder entirely, old one wasn't quite as strong in terms of spring force as the new one.
-Purchased (and have not yet installed) the clutch master cylinder.

My Question:
Am I chasing geese with the clutch hydraulics? How likely is it that the clutch and/or the pressure plate are to blame for these issues?

Heres the documentation ive used so far to bleed the clutch and to replace the slave, going to attempt to replace the master soon when its a warm enough day here in KCMO.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...Hydraulics.htm




Thanks to anyone and everyone who replies, I just basically want to know if I need to prepare my wallet for a clutch job and/or a new pressure plate. Otherwise happy to be part of the p-car world!

jscott82

I assume from your writeup the clutch disengages at at stop and does not slip under load... To me that means the clutch is working.
A clutch that fails to disengage would not make it any more difficult to engage a gear, it will just tear up the syncro and grind...

I would take a hard look at the shifter and cables. Mainly make sure the cables are routed properly and smoothly over the motor. They should cross and make an "X".

Good luck

Pserhaps Kevin G will weigh in... he is the expert

dan_man

you are correct, the clutch is disengaging, as in I can sit at a traffic light with my foot on the clutch pedal and If I’m careful it won’t stall/grind, nor does it slip. It’s very close though.

I will say though the fact that the clutch is disengaging at the VERY bottom of the pedal travel seems abnormal, most write-ups I’ve seen claim that it should be right around the middle on the cayman. this is why I started with hydraulics. I got scared by another post somewhere where the issue ended up being a cracked pressure plate… at that point I’ll pony up and do the IMSB and replace the clutch “while I’m in there” which would be quite the job to do in my apartment parking garage… I thought the maintenance guy was gonna kill me when I was spilling brake fluid everywhere bleeding the clutch haha.

Im basically in purgatory right now waiting on a good time to get that master cylinder in. Can’t wait to bleed the whole system again


thanks for this suggestion, I’ve now become very familiar with the area where the cables attach to the transmission. I’ll take a hard look into how they’re set up. It all seemed good, and the shifter feels fine when the engine is off, but it wont hurt to make sure it’s in check. It might be worth mentioning the car has a short shifter. Previous owner says it was dealer installed.

Thanks for the reply! I’ll update the thread with whatever ends up happening no matter what.

hueyhoolihan

if it has nothing to do with the cables, it could be as simple as having the clutch bled to as complicated and expensive as replacing the entire transmission. i would start with the bleeding...

991Targa4S

After your done bleeding the gearbox use some WD40 to flush out and lube the shift linkages with the red arrows and in the blue arrow pull the rubber cap and flush with WD40 and shoot some lithium grease.

If its a short shifter and the linkages are grimy maybe your lucky and that will take care of it. I’d lube the linkages every oil change on my old 987S and it made such a difference in feel. It made the stick shift feel smooth and like new. Oh & and my cables lasted over 120,000 miles.




The other thing is maybe someone put different gear oil in there. Definitely check the level of gear oil maybe just flush it. It may sound like a long shot but different viscosity gear oil can make syncros behave very differently. Run the draining oil through a paint filter and put in an deep open pan to check if you can see any brass syncro dust glistening on the gear oil. That will tell you of the physical state of your gearbox.

If all that checks out than it may just be in the Belville springs in the pressure plate but do the other stuff first.

vanlieremead

I’ve had lots of hydraulic issues in the past with various cars. A bad clutch play will slip. You don’t slip. I’ve had the clutch slave go before on the BMW. With that car, I couldn’t shift at all and basically rev matched all my shifts until it was replaced. I’ll have to dig into the design as I have a 987.1 Boxster so must be the same. But, I’d be chasing a hydraulic issue starting with fluid level, leaks and finally master and slave pistons. You’ve done the slave. Now do the master.

boldlybold

Congrats on the new Cayman! I had a very similar issue with a used boxster I bought last year. Check out my post for details: https://rennlist.com/forums/987-foru...sengage-2.html

In the end, I went further and replaced the master, slave AND clutch, but the last part may have not been necessary. It was worth it to me for the peace of mind and experience. The master cylinder is significantly easier to replace than the slave, so don’t hesitate on doing that.

Good luck!

dan_man

Just finished installing the master cylinder and bleeding the system, still is behaving as it was before. Thinking its going to have to be a new clutch... looking for a decent Independent shop in my area that isn't completely booked.

Dave in Chicago

Bummer. When my clutch acted up, turned out to be a single broken spline in the diaphragm spring of the pressure plate. Age? Mileage? Who knows. Plenty of material left on the disk. Same result… replace all parts and move on.

Good luck.

Schwinn

Agreed... been there with two previous cars as well... sometimes it's not a "wear" issue but just a something is out of whack, but you have to get in there anyway and do it all the way. Be sure to get the fork cleaned up, the throwout bearing done, and check the surface the bearing rides on. I think most proper jobs include this (if applicable - I don't know if these all apply to this clutch), but I did have a friend run into a shop not replacing the bearing on their (non-Porsche) car, so I always be sure to ask for it.

MRN Race tech

I've heard it can be the spring plate also. I've had the same symptoms as you and changed the same parts as you but it ended up being a badly installed clutch and a few of the bolts for the spring plate had come lose.

dan_man

I just got a call from the shop doing the clutch that the throw-out bearing was bad, so for all of you that find yourself in my situation, try the hydraulics, and then just pony up and buy the whole clutch kit and dig into the transmission.

He also mentioned I had a coolant leak coming from the front of the engine, they said it was this pipe: https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_In...06-508-04-M100 - I haven't found any DIY's for it, and the shop quoted me another $2000 on top of the clutch to replace it, saying they wanted to drop the motor. Some forums have said its possible to do without dropping the engine, I am just deciding now if this is the type of thing I should try to do or I should let them handle. Either way not happy to be throwing money at this car immediately after buying it.

Only thing that has seemed relevant at this point is this thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/987-foru...placement.html

and this web article which mentions "The rubber seals between the plastic part and the engine block degrade to produce a minor coolant leak down the front side of the engine. This part has been updated a number of times by Porsche."
https://www.pcarwise.com/local-help/...mmon-problems/

Still trying to decide if I'm going to take them up on their offer to replace it. advice appreciated.

dan_man

Heres a picture from the shop of this leak, the pipe is caked in coolant and it looks like the vacuum/oil pump is also leaking a little bit of oil. Are these also difficult to replace?

jscott82

That plastic manifold is a known problem and needs to be replaced.
However... Dropping the motor is not nessasary... Its a royal pain to do with the motor in, but still only a half day job...

This is one of those things that if you have the motor out for something else, go ahead and replace the manifold. Its cheap and easy with the motor on a stand.

IMSF8

My Cayman makes an irregular ticking noise after it warms up, but only when the clutch is depressed. The only components that are rotating in that condition are the diaphragm spring, the dual-mass flywheel (and of course the engine). Did you hear something like that when a single spline broke?