First Post - looking for advice...
06-13-2021, 01:11 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
First Post - looking for advice...
Hi. My name is Lyle. And I've been following this Forum for a while now. Also doing a fair bit of research on Caymans (over the last year or two), as I hope to purchase my first one soon (ish). Although...I'm afraid that along with my research, comes the 'over-thinking' on a number of topics. But I was hoping to get some thoughts, from This collective. As there seems to be a rather large knowledge base here..
I live in Canada. And that brings a couple challenges with these types of cars. With nasty winter, often times over half the year....the thought is, that a car like a Cayman will have to sit in a garage for much of that. Not exactly my preference, but there isn't a lot I can do about my living location (for now). An '06 to '08 Cayman....sitting around, for half a year....pretty much looks like a ticking time-bomb, from all the information I've gathered. Those cars were designed to be driven. And driven in a very specific way (not sitting around, idling...).
The vast majority of Ads - for '06 to '08's often say, "Never winter driven"....or "low mileage car". Especially here in Canada. As most of those owners either only use them on weekend (in the Summer), and have them parked all winter. To me...that just sounds like a 'bore-scored' engine....with a lovely Cayman wrapping....waiting for a new owner!
Obviously, I could look at an '09, or newer. But they're somewhat more rare, especially here. And typically, about 15 to 20k more.
The Cayman I end up with, will be a daily driver, for as much of the year as possible (I believe in driving nice cars). But I understand there will be a few months of the year where that won't be happening. So, I have a couple directions I could go. But I'd like some feedback, from folks that have these cars (hopefully some Canadians on this Forum, as well)..
Do I look at '06 to '08 Caymans, with the thought that I'll likely be dealing with some expensive engine work (at some point)? Or do I hold out longer, and get an '09, or newer, and avoid some of that?
The 987.1's are generally around $28k to about $40k (Cayman S - which is my preference). The $40k examples are often garage Queens (in mint condition, with low miles.....again, sounds like a problem, waiting to happen) And the 987.2 versions are typically around 45k, and up.
I understand I can get an in depth PPI, on a 987.1....to identify 'bore scoring' or other issues. But from all indications....it seems only a matter of "when"....not "if"....the engine will have issues.
Thoughts?
Some will look at this Post....and see that I've likely gone overboard, and I'm overthinking this. But I'm hoping for some clarity - from actual owners. Not 'Internet reviews' - or a 'sales pitch' from someone wanting to pass off their car.
I live in Canada. And that brings a couple challenges with these types of cars. With nasty winter, often times over half the year....the thought is, that a car like a Cayman will have to sit in a garage for much of that. Not exactly my preference, but there isn't a lot I can do about my living location (for now). An '06 to '08 Cayman....sitting around, for half a year....pretty much looks like a ticking time-bomb, from all the information I've gathered. Those cars were designed to be driven. And driven in a very specific way (not sitting around, idling...).
The vast majority of Ads - for '06 to '08's often say, "Never winter driven"....or "low mileage car". Especially here in Canada. As most of those owners either only use them on weekend (in the Summer), and have them parked all winter. To me...that just sounds like a 'bore-scored' engine....with a lovely Cayman wrapping....waiting for a new owner!
Obviously, I could look at an '09, or newer. But they're somewhat more rare, especially here. And typically, about 15 to 20k more.
The Cayman I end up with, will be a daily driver, for as much of the year as possible (I believe in driving nice cars). But I understand there will be a few months of the year where that won't be happening. So, I have a couple directions I could go. But I'd like some feedback, from folks that have these cars (hopefully some Canadians on this Forum, as well)..
Do I look at '06 to '08 Caymans, with the thought that I'll likely be dealing with some expensive engine work (at some point)? Or do I hold out longer, and get an '09, or newer, and avoid some of that?
The 987.1's are generally around $28k to about $40k (Cayman S - which is my preference). The $40k examples are often garage Queens (in mint condition, with low miles.....again, sounds like a problem, waiting to happen) And the 987.2 versions are typically around 45k, and up.
I understand I can get an in depth PPI, on a 987.1....to identify 'bore scoring' or other issues. But from all indications....it seems only a matter of "when"....not "if"....the engine will have issues.
Thoughts?
Some will look at this Post....and see that I've likely gone overboard, and I'm overthinking this. But I'm hoping for some clarity - from actual owners. Not 'Internet reviews' - or a 'sales pitch' from someone wanting to pass off their car.
Last edited by Kattman; 06-13-2021 at 01:12 PM.
06-13-2021, 02:39 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
To get a real perspective on bore scoring you would need to talk with someone that has seen 100s if not 1000s of these cars to get real metrics. I think there is oy one person on this forum with that perspective.
That said: my perspective from knowing 5 or 10 of these cars personally. Yes its a real issue, but its rare. I don't think there is any real evidence to prove that its related sitting. I think the problem is over estimated as the few cars that have it are often unscrupulously put up for sale and buyer gets screwed.
I would think a good PPI is worth its weight in gold with these.. assuming PPI checks out, I would not worry any further.
As far as these motors being "special"... BS... its a mass produced engine like any VW, Audi, or toyota.
That said: my perspective from knowing 5 or 10 of these cars personally. Yes its a real issue, but its rare. I don't think there is any real evidence to prove that its related sitting. I think the problem is over estimated as the few cars that have it are often unscrupulously put up for sale and buyer gets screwed.
I would think a good PPI is worth its weight in gold with these.. assuming PPI checks out, I would not worry any further.
As far as these motors being "special"... BS... its a mass produced engine like any VW, Audi, or toyota.
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BWJones (06-13-2021)
06-13-2021, 04:50 PM
#3
Instructor
Thread Starter
To get a real perspective on bore scoring you would need to talk with someone that has seen 100s if not 1000s of these cars to get real metrics. I think there is oy one person on this forum with that perspective.
That said: my perspective from knowing 5 or 10 of these cars personally. Yes its a real issue, but its rare. I don't think there is any real evidence to prove that its related sitting. I think the problem is over estimated as the few cars that have it are often unscrupulously put up for sale and buyer gets screwed.
I would think a good PPI is worth its weight in gold with these.. assuming PPI checks out, I would not worry any further.
As far as these motors being "special"... BS... its a mass produced engine like any VW, Audi, or toyota.
That said: my perspective from knowing 5 or 10 of these cars personally. Yes its a real issue, but its rare. I don't think there is any real evidence to prove that its related sitting. I think the problem is over estimated as the few cars that have it are often unscrupulously put up for sale and buyer gets screwed.
I would think a good PPI is worth its weight in gold with these.. assuming PPI checks out, I would not worry any further.
As far as these motors being "special"... BS... its a mass produced engine like any VW, Audi, or toyota.
And I suppose I should add to my Post above - that I'm not 'deathly afraid' of engine issues. I mostly want to be prepared for it. If it occurs. Many of the .1's are roughly 10 to 15 Grand (Cdn) less than most of the .2's I've seen. Is it possible to enjoy the .1 for as long as a person can, then understand that an engine rebuild may need to occur....at some point? Can the engine be rebuilt for less than $10k ?? I've tried looking at new or rebuilt Cayman engines (online). And I've found very little..
06-13-2021, 07:48 PM
#4
I doubt that sitting for the winter will induce bore scoring. My understanding is that the best way to create a bore score issue is frequent short trips in cold temperatures where the engine doesn't warm up. Having the car parked for the winter would likely LESSEN the chance of bore scoring based on that idea. Bores don't score when the pistons are idle, they score when the pistons are moving.
I park my 2012 Cayman in heated storage for the long, dark, cold Canadian winter and other than a completely pooched battery last year I've never had an issue in the spring.
Also as a Canadian good luck finding a good car. There have been hardly any Cayman's for sale for the last 2 years and now asking prices are through the roof with base 987.2's over 50K. The prices are so high I've thought, "if I could get 50K for my 987.2 50K KM 6MT Cayman I just might take it!" Problem is what would you buy, shortages, high prices, incoming Trudeau tax on a new 718 GTS 4.0, nah I hang onto my car.
I park my 2012 Cayman in heated storage for the long, dark, cold Canadian winter and other than a completely pooched battery last year I've never had an issue in the spring.
Also as a Canadian good luck finding a good car. There have been hardly any Cayman's for sale for the last 2 years and now asking prices are through the roof with base 987.2's over 50K. The prices are so high I've thought, "if I could get 50K for my 987.2 50K KM 6MT Cayman I just might take it!" Problem is what would you buy, shortages, high prices, incoming Trudeau tax on a new 718 GTS 4.0, nah I hang onto my car.
06-13-2021, 08:12 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
I doubt that sitting for the winter will induce bore scoring. My understanding is that the best way to create a bore score issue is frequent short trips in cold temperatures where the engine doesn't warm up. Having the car parked for the winter would likely LESSEN the chance of bore scoring based on that idea. Bores don't score when the pistons are idle, they score when the pistons are moving.
I park my 2012 Cayman in heated storage for the long, dark, cold Canadian winter and other than a completely pooched battery last year I've never had an issue in the spring.
Also as a Canadian good luck finding a good car. There have been hardly any Cayman's for sale for the last 2 years and now asking prices are through the roof with base 987.2's over 50K. The prices are so high I've thought, "if I could get 50K for my 987.2 50K KM 6MT Cayman I just might take it!" Problem is what would you buy, shortages, high prices, incoming Trudeau tax on a new 718 GTS 4.0, nah I hang onto my car.
I park my 2012 Cayman in heated storage for the long, dark, cold Canadian winter and other than a completely pooched battery last year I've never had an issue in the spring.
Also as a Canadian good luck finding a good car. There have been hardly any Cayman's for sale for the last 2 years and now asking prices are through the roof with base 987.2's over 50K. The prices are so high I've thought, "if I could get 50K for my 987.2 50K KM 6MT Cayman I just might take it!" Problem is what would you buy, shortages, high prices, incoming Trudeau tax on a new 718 GTS 4.0, nah I hang onto my car.
Bore scoring isn't from a motor doing 0 rpms.
And the 987.1 is far from the only modern motor that suffers from the kind of use that increases the chance of bore scoring. As stated above, frequent short trips that never allow the motor to operate at normal temperatures and fight off oil dilution and rich cold start combustion chamber environment, are probably the real threat. Not the low mileage or infrequent use.
Or put another way, 2 identical cars that averaged 2000 miles per year could easily be in very different mechanical condition. 20 trips of 100 miles, or 200 trips of 10 miles?
I know which one would have a healthy future.
By the way, you could settle for a Base, acquire it for le$$, and then spend a little money modding it to your hearts desire for increased performance. That little 2.7 is a gem of a motor and seems to have a much less scary internet horror story history. It still sounds like a Porsche, turns like a Porsche, STOPS like a Porsche,.. and looks like a Porsche. Currently one of the easier found Porsche bargains.
Last edited by Snakebit; 06-13-2021 at 08:13 PM.
06-13-2021, 08:22 PM
#6
Instructor
Thread Starter
I doubt that sitting for the winter will induce bore scoring. My understanding is that the best way to create a bore score issue is frequent short trips in cold temperatures where the engine doesn't warm up. Having the car parked for the winter would likely LESSEN the chance of bore scoring based on that idea. Bores don't score when the pistons are idle, they score when the pistons are moving.
I park my 2012 Cayman in heated storage for the long, dark, cold Canadian winter and other than a completely pooched battery last year I've never had an issue in the spring.
Also as a Canadian good luck finding a good car. There have been hardly any Cayman's for sale for the last 2 years and now asking prices are through the roof with base 987.2's over 50K. The prices are so high I've thought, "if I could get 50K for my 987.2 50K KM 6MT Cayman I just might take it!" Problem is what would you buy, shortages, high prices, incoming Trudeau tax on a new 718 GTS 4.0, nah I hang onto my car.
I park my 2012 Cayman in heated storage for the long, dark, cold Canadian winter and other than a completely pooched battery last year I've never had an issue in the spring.
Also as a Canadian good luck finding a good car. There have been hardly any Cayman's for sale for the last 2 years and now asking prices are through the roof with base 987.2's over 50K. The prices are so high I've thought, "if I could get 50K for my 987.2 50K KM 6MT Cayman I just might take it!" Problem is what would you buy, shortages, high prices, incoming Trudeau tax on a new 718 GTS 4.0, nah I hang onto my car.
I haven't found the prices to have jumped much - especially in my area (Western Canada). I've been tracking Caymans for a while now. And still see a lot of 987.1's (S version) for around 30 to 35K (Cdn). And I've recently seen some .2's for mid 40's.
Last edited by Kattman; 06-13-2021 at 08:24 PM.
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cavediver32043 (06-14-2021)
06-13-2021, 08:27 PM
#7
Instructor
Thread Starter
This ^
Bore scoring isn't from a motor doing 0 rpms.
And the 987.1 is far from the only modern motor that suffers from the kind of use that increases the chance of bore scoring. As stated above, frequent short trips that never allow the motor to operate at normal temperatures and fight off oil dilution and rich cold start combustion chamber environment, are probably the real threat. Not the low mileage or infrequent use.
Or put another way, 2 identical cars that averaged 2000 miles per year could easily be in very different mechanical condition. 20 trips of 100 miles, or 200 trips of 10 miles?
I know which one would have a healthy future.
By the way, you could settle for a Base, acquire it for le$$, and then spend a little money modding it to your hearts desire for increased performance. That little 2.7 is a gem of a motor and seems to have a much less scary internet horror story history. It still sounds like a Porsche, turns like a Porsche, STOPS like a Porsche,.. and looks like a Porsche. Currently one of the easier found Porsche bargains.
Bore scoring isn't from a motor doing 0 rpms.
And the 987.1 is far from the only modern motor that suffers from the kind of use that increases the chance of bore scoring. As stated above, frequent short trips that never allow the motor to operate at normal temperatures and fight off oil dilution and rich cold start combustion chamber environment, are probably the real threat. Not the low mileage or infrequent use.
Or put another way, 2 identical cars that averaged 2000 miles per year could easily be in very different mechanical condition. 20 trips of 100 miles, or 200 trips of 10 miles?
I know which one would have a healthy future.
By the way, you could settle for a Base, acquire it for le$$, and then spend a little money modding it to your hearts desire for increased performance. That little 2.7 is a gem of a motor and seems to have a much less scary internet horror story history. It still sounds like a Porsche, turns like a Porsche, STOPS like a Porsche,.. and looks like a Porsche. Currently one of the easier found Porsche bargains.
Definitely will be considering a Base. Especially if engine modifications are on the table. I certain do not need a monster power car (not that the S, or the 987.2 is anything like that...lol). My days of high speeds, are mostly behind me.
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06-13-2021, 08:36 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Yes. As I stated....I know the bores don't just score, sitting there.
Definitely will be considering a Base. Especially if engine modifications are on the table. I certain do not need a monster power car (not that the S, or the 987.2 is anything like that...lol). My days of high speeds, are mostly behind me.
Definitely will be considering a Base. Especially if engine modifications are on the table. I certain do not need a monster power car (not that the S, or the 987.2 is anything like that...lol). My days of high speeds, are mostly behind me.
But I know what you meant. (0-60 prowess)
I live in Coastal/Tropical/Texas, so very different seasonal experience, but why would a Canadian car require short trips and cold-start idling events any more than a Texas car?
Or put another way, if I moved to Calgary (land of the best rodeo in the world) I would obviously drive the Porsche less often. But I would still be able to refrain from cold-starting and idling, as well as using it for trips too short to reach full operating temperatures. That's just a matter of choice, no?
06-13-2021, 09:51 PM
#9
Instructor
Thread Starter
Actually, the Base OR the S are awesome for "high speeds". That's what is so magical about them.
But I know what you meant. (0-60 prowess)
I live in Coastal/Tropical/Texas, so very different seasonal experience, but why would a Canadian car require short trips and cold-start idling events any more than a Texas car?
Or put another way, if I moved to Calgary (land of the best rodeo in the world) I would obviously drive the Porsche less often. But I would still be able to refrain from cold-starting and idling, as well as using it for trips too short to reach full operating temperatures. That's just a matter of choice, no?
But I know what you meant. (0-60 prowess)
I live in Coastal/Tropical/Texas, so very different seasonal experience, but why would a Canadian car require short trips and cold-start idling events any more than a Texas car?
Or put another way, if I moved to Calgary (land of the best rodeo in the world) I would obviously drive the Porsche less often. But I would still be able to refrain from cold-starting and idling, as well as using it for trips too short to reach full operating temperatures. That's just a matter of choice, no?
My 'implication' for the 'feller' that parks his Cayman, for 6 months, in his Calgary garage (while he waits for the Stampede)....is that he'll go out and start his car every few weeks - give or take. And thus, doing the harm that I'm suggesting. I'm not saying that ALL of them have this occur. But I guess what I am saying....is after watching all the videos - and reading up - and doing my own looking - this is message that was beat into my head. Whether it's correct or not, I have no clue. Just saying, that this is the seed that is planted.
Still interested in hearing about power-plants. And the what (ballpark) costs are involved - if things do go sideways..
06-13-2021, 11:00 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
As far as rebuild cost, I've seen quotes from 12 to 20k for a basic rebuild. It really depends on how much stuff you want to reuse. For bore score its 5k just to sleeve the block.
IMHO i would not spend 12k just to fix a damaged engine and keep a bunch of used parts in there. I would also not spend 20k to rebuild it back to stock.
Low mileage used engines can be found for 8k. When I blew mine (on the track from oil starvation) 2 years ago, that's what I did, and still feel good about decision.
IMHO i would not spend 12k just to fix a damaged engine and keep a bunch of used parts in there. I would also not spend 20k to rebuild it back to stock.
Low mileage used engines can be found for 8k. When I blew mine (on the track from oil starvation) 2 years ago, that's what I did, and still feel good about decision.
Last edited by jscott82; 06-14-2021 at 11:01 PM.
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Snakebit (06-13-2021)
06-13-2021, 11:26 PM
#12
Instructor
Thread Starter
As far as rebuild cost, I've seen quotes from 12 to 20k for a basic rebuild. It really depends on how much stuff you want to reuse. For bore score its 5k just to sleave the block.
IMHO i would not spend 12k just to fix a damaged engine and keep a bunch of used parts in there. I would also not spend 20k to rebuild it back to stock.
Low milage used ungines can be found for 8k. When I blew mine (on the track from oil starvation) 2 years ago, that's what I did, and still feel good about decision.
IMHO i would not spend 12k just to fix a damaged engine and keep a bunch of used parts in there. I would also not spend 20k to rebuild it back to stock.
Low milage used ungines can be found for 8k. When I blew mine (on the track from oil starvation) 2 years ago, that's what I did, and still feel good about decision.
I suppose I just want to rid myself of the thought process, that all is lost for most .1's here in colder climates. I feel like the 'doom-n-gloom' I saw, with most of my looking, needs to be re-thought.
06-13-2021, 11:27 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
I suppose....haha!! I'm mostly looking at overall driving experience. I don't have a lot of access to places where I can go nuts, with cornering...or racing around. There is a track here in my Province - and I may try to get out there. But not for anything beyond fun..
My 'implication' for the 'feller' that parks his Cayman, for 6 months, in his Calgary garage (while he waits for the Stampede)....is that he'll go out and start his car every few weeks - give or take. And thus, doing the harm that I'm suggesting. I'm not saying that ALL of them have this occur. But I guess what I am saying....is after watching all the videos - and reading up - and doing my own looking - this is message that was beat into my head. Whether it's correct or not, I have no clue. Just saying, that this is the seed that is planted.
Still interested in hearing about power-plants. And the what (ballpark) costs are involved - if things do go sideways..
My 'implication' for the 'feller' that parks his Cayman, for 6 months, in his Calgary garage (while he waits for the Stampede)....is that he'll go out and start his car every few weeks - give or take. And thus, doing the harm that I'm suggesting. I'm not saying that ALL of them have this occur. But I guess what I am saying....is after watching all the videos - and reading up - and doing my own looking - this is message that was beat into my head. Whether it's correct or not, I have no clue. Just saying, that this is the seed that is planted.
Still interested in hearing about power-plants. And the what (ballpark) costs are involved - if things do go sideways..
Good luck with your search. You are well informed as a buyer. I'm optimistic that you will find a worthy car.
06-14-2021, 09:59 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
Yes. As I stated....I know the bores don't just score, sitting there.
Definitely will be considering a Base. Especially if engine modifications are on the table. I certain do not need a monster power car (not that the S, or the 987.2 is anything like that...lol). My days of high speeds, are mostly behind me.
Definitely will be considering a Base. Especially if engine modifications are on the table. I certain do not need a monster power car (not that the S, or the 987.2 is anything like that...lol). My days of high speeds, are mostly behind me.
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06-14-2021, 10:48 AM
#15
I'm guessing the answer is no, but still curious none the less.