BGA23

I’m looking to pick up a car to use for HPDEs and some autox events, I’d say it’ll be 90% track/10% road. I’ve found a couple of interesting cars and I’d like to hear the thoughts on which might be better for someone who is new to this.

A) 100% stock 987 Cayman S
B) Modified e46 M3 - upgraded suspension, big brake kit, SMG converted to 6MT, few other upgrades

I’m good the prices, mileages and the options on the 987.

Would one be a better choice for me or does it come down to which I prefer?

badabing

Both are popular for this purpose. Having started out HPDE with a bone stock 987 CS I have the benefit of some hindsight.

If you think this is something you will really get into (get bitten by the bug as they say) then strictly choosing between the 2 cars I'd say choose the BMW solely because it already has some upgrades done and maybe somewhat devalued due to the trans swap.

If you buy the cayman you will be spending a lot of money in mods especially if it's a 987.1

garfunkle

HPDE and auto X are completely different.

I recommend a Miata if you want to mod. Otherwise you'll be better off getting a Radical and calling it a day

Scooby921

Pretty much the perfect answer.

For autocross you aren't ever really going "fast", so choosing a car which handles well is ideal. It'll teach you a lot about driving and improve your skills for track days. Not just physical driving, but looking ahead to see what's coming and learning how to place the car and navigate a lot of different types of corners. I started autocrossing with a Subaru Impreza WRX. After several years I made the change to a Miata. Different animals. WRX won me more trophies, but the Miata was more fun to drive.

But when it comes to track days almost every single one of us always wants to go faster. So we modify and then upgrade and keep looking for more speed. So save the wasted time and money and buy a track-specific toy for that purpose (budget allowing). If I had the budget I'd have a Radical.


And just to add one more tidbit of personal opinion...

It doesn't matter what you buy and drive as a novice. The most important thing is that you get seat time to learn and improve as a driver. You should focus on being a good, fast driver before you worry about having a good, fast car. It's easier to see things coming in a slower car and learn how to place the car and react. Then as you ramp up to a faster car the skills and instinct are already there. And since I'm an instructor for a local track day group...don't be afraid to ask for help. I sit there watching rich people in Lamborghinis and Porsches ham-fisting themselves around the track like idiots because they believe they are great drivers. The 20 year old with the Honda Fit asked for help and left the track a better driver that day.

garfunkle

I'd like to expand on that.... Most people with Porsches like HPDE because you get to go "fast" and stretch out your Porsche. An AutoX eliminates most of the advantage of power. Here's why you want a Miata and to start with AutoX. A Miata will have body roll that lets you feel the limits of that car and require you to build momentum and throw the cars weight around. It's light and cheap enough that you won't be as afraid. Also, when things break; and they will, parts are super cheap and easy to fix. Also, if you do one season of AutoX or lets say 10 events in one year it will make you a better driver than never doing autoX and just doing HPDE for 10 events/year for 5 to 7 years.

Also a Radical is 30K all day. Easily. Thats way less then you will spend modding an E46M3 and a bargain when you start looking at running costs and PROPER maintenance of a track car.

Last platitude. Good street cars make bad track cars and good track cars make bad street cars.

We all love driving our P cars and they are fun as hell on a track. A Mustang is also fun on a track. A Miata is fun on a track. Having a Porsche is a wonderful experience but on a track the experience is about the experience and not the car. I guarantee someone in a 200K GT3RS isn't having more fun than someone in a 30K Cayman. Street cars are best enjoyed in the mountains. If you want to learn how to drive then forget everything you know about what makes a great car.

robbodle

The M3 has the potential to be junk. Its an auto car that is converted. Its got a lot of suspension work done to it. E46 M3s are fragile anyway. You cant count on the quality of the engineering and the work on the M3. Meanwhile the 987 has quality factory Porsche engineer and assembly in place with no monkeying with the car. Any upgrades done after purchase you choose and supervise the work.

With HPDE the prime goal is seat time. The prime goal of the seat time is your driving and not worrying about the car. It doesn't matter how fast the car is. DE isn't racing. It does matter that its reliable and trustworthy in your hands. That it will do what you ask of it. It doesn't hurt if the car is forgiving to your mistakes.

I raced Mustangs for over 10 years and had a Honda S2000. The Mustangs were reliable and predictable. The Honda was reliable but very nervous in the rear. I would choose the Mustang for the track everytime. Here I would choose the factory Porsche without hesitation. Its a known quantity

CaymanSinAR

Miata.

Tom R.

Putting a car on the track is the same as going to Vegas. Walk in with full pockets, and don't be upset if at the end of the day you had a good time but the pockets are empty. How much do you want to risk on the track? If you are jumping in with a dedicated track car find a nice spec 944 that is being retired. A GT3 can lap high plains at about 1:58. A spec 944 in the right hands can lap it at about 2:10. There is a good 300Hp and more than a 150K difference in the entrance fee. Your money, your priorities.

If you get a 987.1 Cayman S, be prepared to add a third radiator, accusump, different oil pan and a few other things in addition to GT3 control arms to make it track ready. And for those that say you don't need it as a novice - Baloney. A novice blew his then stock 987.1 S motor at High Plains a few years ago.

garfunkle

944 is a good call! Light and the stock engine is plenty to learn with. An LS swap is viable if you feel like you need power haha but only AFTER safety upgrades and then brakes and then suspension. Also, fully prepped ones can be bought cheap

txbdan

If i were to buy a dedicated track car right now it'd be an E46 330. They're basically E36 M3s with stiffer chassis and can fit wider tires. They're also much cheaper than E36 M3s and significantly cheaper than E46 M3s while being more reliable and much cheaper to run.

(I've owned several track focused E30s and E36s and currently have an E30 endurance race car.)

PorscheAddict

I have track time in 987.1 and E46 M3's and would probably suggest the E46 for that purpose. Parts are cheaper, it's just as fast or faster, and a car set up properly for the track is so much easier to drive on track than a stock vehicle.

Schroedinger

You couldn’t give me a modified E46 M3, unless I knew the previous owner/modifier REALLY well and knew that it was track reliable. I probably see more of those broken down in the paddock than any other car. The rod bearing issue alone has kept me away from them.

daylorb

A Radical will someday be in my future, but you obviously can't drive it to events, requiring a whole new level of storage/commitment/etc. I had en e46 M3, now on my second 987 S. If you must choose between the two, I'd go S. The M isn't really a great Autox car IMHO. The SMG conversion doesn't scare me, pretty common project. The Vanos probably scares me more.

I have more fun doing COTA in a 987 S, although in theory the e46 has slightly higher top speed. Just my opinion.

Klepper

I have tracked an BMW 1M, E36 M3, a 987.2 S, 718 GTS, and a GT4.

Honestly, I have about the same amount of fun in all of them. I find other cars in my run groups that are about the same speed as me and run with them. My next track car will probably be a Miata - cheap, reliable, and low running costs.

57staff

For the purposes the OP has stated, I would also toss in the Factory Five Racing 818 kit car into the mix. Basically, a mid-engine tube-frame two seater with a Subi engine. Out of the box the car is designed for a 4-cylinder engine (2.0 or 2.5) but some have put a H-6 3.0 Subi engine.

Not necessarily suggesting you build one (unless that is your thing) but finding one already assembled.