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He's exaggerating the level of hassle by a ton. And by two tons when factoring in the joy of looking at such beauty parked in your own driveway. :-)
Originally Posted by MattUF
+1, I purchased my 987 Spyder sight unseen and was materially worried about whether I would be able to live with the top or if it would drive me nuts. After ~3 times putting it on/off, it probably takes 1-2 minutes maximum to accomplish without intentionally hurrying around the car. To me, the car is special enough that I don't even give a second thought to the top and its operation. That being said, you'll always have people who don't want to deal with it vs. someone like myself who appreciates the ingenuity that went in to designing/executing the top.
Completely agree, first few times of taking the top on/off can be slightly difficult, I can easily get it done in less than a minute now if I run Ended up with my 981 Spyder when I took my 997.2 GT3 for service and haven't looked back. The GT3 was amazing, very fun to drive, but my CPO was ending at the time of trade in and it made me very nervous to keep it out of warranty. The 981 was 6 years newer, and I don't have to worry about something going awry, which I always did with the GT3 even under warranty. A few months after I purchased the GT one of the side mufflers cracked, the warranty covered it but it was a $5k repair. So that was always in the back of my mind along with the coolant hose issues. Overall, I'm very happy with the Spyder which I recently FVD tuned. It's as close to a open top GT car without spending $300k for a Speedster IMO.
+1, I purchased my 987 Spyder sight unseen and was materially worried about whether I would be able to live with the top or if it would drive me nuts. After ~3 times putting it on/off, it probably takes 1-2 minutes maximum to accomplish without intentionally hurrying around the car. To me, the car is special enough that I don't even give a second thought to the top and its operation. That being said, you'll always have people who don't want to deal with it vs. someone like myself who appreciates the ingenuity that went in to designing/executing the top.
I could see the top being a burden if the car was daily driven but I don't think many are.... it's a special occasion car and the minimal effort should be a labor of love. If it's not.... that's okay and likely this is not the car for you. You probably also want a PDK and perhaps don't often shop in the men's section
I had two 997.2's, a Targa 4 (manual) and a C4S (PDK). I loved them both, they have different personalities for sure. The 3.6 base engine is a sweeter sounding unit (not sure how that happens as they're so similar) and the 6 speed manual is a joy. The Targa roof, while rattle-y was great. The C4S with the PDK was very quick indeed and the PDK was excellent on the track. The 997.2's are worth the extra over the .1 for me due to all the upgrades. The interior, suspension, AWD system and of course, all new more powerful engines. They're almost different cars.
The fact they were '911's' is why I wanted them in the first place. The chassis has inherent flaws due to the engine placement. I wanted to try something more challenging to drive after my M Coupe (clownshoe). I had two S54 engined ones, and loved them. However once I bought the 911, I stopped driving the Clownshoe as the 997 is so much better to drive in every aspect. The Clownshoe has a wonderfully quirky character and I'm glad I had an opportunity to own two of them.
I did drive a 981 Spyder and that was the most fun Porsche car I've driven, including a 991 GT3 (PDK). I couldn't stomach spending $80k+ right now on a toy as I have a '69 912 too, so I went for my more reasonable used base Boxster, which is probably 80% of the fun for 30% of the cost. The 981 Spyder would be the Porsche I'd want to own the most, well maybe that and a GT3 Touring
I spoke to a guy whose owned both 987 and 981 Spyder, and currently has a 981 S PDK. He prefers the regular 981 over the Spyder. He stated the roof is such a pain in the *** to use all the time, and every road trip he'd take, it would take him a few minutes to fumble with the roof to close it when he parked the car. In the end he loves the speed and simplicity of the regular Boxster roof. I think I'd still get one though....
This is really good feedback, thank you very much! It seems like we enjoy the same type of cars. You're not the first person to say that they really enjoy the hell out of a base Boxster. Did you consider the 981 Boxster S at all during your search?
Currently got some other priorities, so it's also hard for me to drop $80k on a toy. Also not sure I want to part with an E36 M3, Z4M Roadster and $50k for a 981 Spyder either. Maybe when they depreciate more after 718 Spyder hits the showroom.
Completely agree, first few times of taking the top on/off can be slightly difficult, I can easily get it done in less than a minute now if I run Ended up with my 981 Spyder when I took my 997.2 GT3 for service and haven't looked back. The GT3 was amazing, very fun to drive, but my CPO was ending at the time of trade in and it made me very nervous to keep it out of warranty. The 981 was 6 years newer, and I don't have to worry about something going awry, which I always did with the GT3 even under warranty. A few months after I purchased the GT one of the side mufflers cracked, the warranty covered it but it was a $5k repair. So that was always in the back of my mind along with the coolant hose issues. Overall, I'm very happy with the Spyder which I recently FVD tuned. It's as close to a open top GT car without spending $300k for a Speedster IMO.
This is also great insight for me. Interesting to hear GT3 going back down to a Spyder and still enjoying the hell out of them without missing the GT3 too much. The next Porsche would be a one and done deal. The initial purchase price of a 997 GT3 is just too high for my liking, and the maintenance is somewhat of a concern. Also think the car might be complete overkill to have fun on the streets as I would not plan on tracking it.
For my use, a Spyder would make complete sense, and I also think there's some more depreciation down the road, which helps second hand buyers like me. Are you not concerned about the 981 Spyder when the warranty runs out?
Consider 987.1 Boxster S. The biggest Porsche and roadster bargain in the universe. Perfect power and gearing for wringing it out on backroads. And the pre-DFI engine howls even with basic oem mufflers. I’ll invent any excuse to drive mine, or just go drive it regardless (well not now in the snow, of course, lol -- it hibernates in winter):
This is really good feedback, thank you very much! It seems like we enjoy the same type of cars. You're not the first person to say that they really enjoy the hell out of a base Boxster. Did you consider the 981 Boxster S at all during your search?
Currently got some other priorities, so it's also hard for me to drop $80k on a toy. Also not sure I want to part with an E36 M3, Z4M Roadster and $50k for a 981 Spyder either. Maybe when they depreciate more after 718 Spyder hits the showroom.
One of my best friends has a base 987. I'm telling you that is very much a sweet car! The engine revs more freely and faster than my S, even with a tune and everything else. The power and package on the base is pretty much dead center of perfect for a fun street car in the way people talk about Miatas but way better. The engine never feels like it's underpowered and rather feels like a perfect fit for the chassis. Power hungry people will want more but nobody needs it. Also, the base are all non DFI so they also sound better too actually
The Z4M would be hard to part with... the Porsche is objectively better in every single way BUT the Z4M is special and super fun. Most people don't realize how high the S54 revs! I have a couple 2001 & 2002 M Roadtsers Have you thought about adding CSL intake?
One of my best friends has a base 987. I'm telling you that is very much a sweet car! The engine revs more freely and faster than my S, even with a tune and everything else. The power and package on the base is pretty much dead center of perfect for a fun street car in the way people talk about Miatas but way better. The engine never feels like it's underpowered and rather feels like a perfect fit for the chassis. Power hungry people will want more but nobody needs it. Also, the base are all non DFI so they also sound better too actually
The Z4M would be hard to part with... the Porsche is objectively better in every single way BUT the Z4M is special and super fun. Most people don't realize how high the S54 revs! I have a couple 2001 & 2002 M Roadtsers Have you thought about adding CSL intake?
Will definitely have to check a 987 out based on this! Never driven a Boxster or Cayman from that generation.
I got my Z4M Roadster because I was missing the top down driving from an E30 325i Convertible I had years ago. More for the cruising than anything. I was shocked when I got the Z4MR just how much I loved that thing. The way it looks, drives, the S54, the seating position ect ect... all that and I paid $20k for mine. A CSL intake, lighter wheels, decent exhaust would be great. If I do decide to skip on the Spyder, this is most likely what I'll do.
I test drove a 2014 911 Turbo S Cabriolet when I was deciding which convertible I wanted. Price (both lightly used) of the 911 was almost exactly double the Boxster. Cost was a consideration, but definitely not the deciding factor as I could have easily afforded either vehicle.
I thought long and hard about what I was going to use the car for. In my case, it's a fun car to take out on the twisties near my home after work or on the weekend for some road therapy. Gets some use for weekend getaways. No plans for extended road trips, track use or HPDE events. Definitely wanted a convertible.
As a convertible, my opinion was that the Boxster is much more attractive than the 911 Cabriolet.
Boxster put a bigger smile on my face than the 911.
Boxster made me feel like a much better driver than I am; it just felt much more balanced and nimble than the 911.
There's no way I'd even come close to using the 911 Turbo S at what it's capable of.
So I picked the Boxster and have been happy. This is not to disparage the 911 (or folks who have one) in any way. The 911 is an incredible machine. In the end, it came down to a lot of subjective judgements and the Boxster was the car gave the greatest joy to me --- and still does!
Over the years, I've had the chance to drive many other sports cars -- 911, R8, M3, my brother's-in-law old MG, a Ferrari F430, a Miata, Mustang GT350R, etc. It's weird, but the one I liked the best (other than the Boxster) was the Miata. What a fun, approachable car. I don't find it nearly as well balanced as the Boxster but still a lot of fun to drive. So I suppose it's good I've found what I like and am happy with it.
Wish others the best in finding their bliss in the car world.
My advice to anyone looking for a 'fun' car to splurge on would be to broadly define what you want, what you're going to use it for and pick 5 or so cars you think might meet your requirements. At that point, you're done being rational and it's time to get behind the wheel and see which one puts the biggest smile on your face. THAT'S the one you want to get.
I've owned several high end cars (porsches, lambos, etc) - and many other germans and my favorite cars out of all of them so far have been
1 - my 2013 Audi S4 - such a great all in one car
2 - 2001 s2000 - great looking bulletproof convertible that I was able to daily without fuss for 4 years
3 - 2008 335i coupe - another great all in one car, but in the shop way too often
4 - 2016 Audi RS7 - #beast. Nothing more needs to be said
Past that , and many more thousands of dollars into cars - I have found many flaws and downsides of owning way more expensive vehicles. The higher up the scale you get the tougher it is especially for me to extract value and justify the cost of ownership, especially when they aren't being used on frequent basis.
Currently I have a '19 SQ5 and a 981 spyder and very content and happy with that duo to cover many aspects of driving, without heavily breaking the bank.
I'm trying to fall out of love with my 981 Spyder, because I get bored of cars. But it isn't working . Considered GT3 Touring, GT3 RS -- all significant jumps and I doubt I'd find the value in the additional money spent. I also slightly miss a turbo car, so I'm trying to push the wife into getting an M car next to accompany the Spyder. I think that'll keep the itch away for a while longer.
For the money spent, the Spyder is just so.damn.good.
How many seasons where you guys live? Any rain? When you stop at the store or meet friends for coffee do you leave the top open while parked? I open/close my top at least 2x per run and that's assuming no weather (rain) surprises. Mostly backroad runs with an errand here and there. No highways, stop lights, or city traffic. Every time I push that top open/close button while driving, I feel lucky about not having to find a place on the side of the road to park and do a manual top dance around the car.
You make a valid point. I live in TX where it's currently 74 and sunny out. When I take it to run some quick errands I just leave the top down, the upside of virtually no storage space in the cabin is there's nothing for people to steal
I'll add my perspective. I'm fortunate to have a 2011 TTS Cab and a GT4. Hands down, if I only had one car, it would be the GT4. I love the turbo and the acceleration, but for driving enjoyment, the GT4 is what I prefer.
From time to time I get the GT3 itch, having driven one at the PEC in Atlanta. It was fantastic I've come close to pulling the trigger when I get caught up in the emotional aspects, the aura of the GT3 and, of course, fantasize about the engine and sound. But when I step back and ask myself the OP's fundamental question, "would my driving enjoyment increase on par with the additional financial outlay to move from a GT4 to a GT3?". The answer for me is no. I would miss the balance and engagement of the GT4 on twisty roads. For me, the GT4 is near perfect even without the motorsport engine.
Plus, its always nice to have something to aspire to. Knowing me, if I got the GT3, the next move would be an RS, or whatever comes next.
I'll add my perspective. I'm fortunate to have a 2011 TTS Cab and a GT4. Hands down, if I only had one car, it would be the GT4. I love the turbo and the acceleration, but for driving enjoyment, the GT4 is what I prefer.
From time to time I get the GT3 itch, having driven one at the PEC in Atlanta. It was fantastic I've come close to pulling the trigger when I get caught up in the emotional aspects, the aura of the GT3 and, of course, fantasize about the engine and sound. But when I step back and ask myself the OP's fundamental question, "would my driving enjoyment increase on par with the additional financial outlay to move from a GT4 to a GT3?". The answer for me is no. I would miss the balance and engagement of the GT4 on twisty roads. For me, the GT4 is near perfect even without the motorsport engine.
Plus, its always nice to have something to aspire to. Knowing me, if I got the GT3, the next move would be an RS, or whatever comes next.
You just answered your question.... JUST GET THE RS!
Yes, diminishing returns for suresies is a serious thing in cars. The curve starts moving sharply upward around about VW GTI prices, in fact. The best way to get an idea of whether it's worth the greatly increased cost might be to do what I did when I was trying to convince myself to buy a new Mazda ND. I told the sales guy that I wanted to drive a preowned with 2000 miles on it for a full day and I'd happily pay for the privilege. Basically increasing the mileage by a small percentage. He offered instead to sell it to me with a guarantee of a full money back deal if I didn't want it after 3 days. Uh huh. After speaking with the guy in charge of the dealership we agreed on a full day and zero cost. (I bought them all a big box of doughnuts anyway). And after an extensive drive, along roads I was intimately familiar with, I came away thoroughly under-impressed and at a loss as to why so many folks find it so amazing/fun/playful/etc. It was just okay. The turn-in at low speeds felt good. But it was loud, the engine noise was yuck, the interior plasticky, rattly, and just not very appealing. Plus the passenger footwell is ridiculous and the storage close to non-existent. I loved the slap down manual roof, though (I tested a ragtop as the wind roar of the RF and the increased interior noise top up was a deal killer for me).
My RS 60 Spyder, otoh, is a joy to drive. I love the way it looks, it's hugely practical for a 2 seater sports car and it sounds amazing. It does way more of the jinba ittai for me than the Miata did, that's for sure. And I gave my '16 BMW M235i to my son because in comparison with it the RS 60 just shone so brightly (and I wanted to keep the Bimmer in the family).
I've driven the newer Boxsters, Caymans and 911s. I can state, without question, that I find the RS 60 to be the best for what I'm looking for (detailed above). And the price was under a fully optioned ND. So - pretty big win for me.
12-03-2019, 10:36 AM
Ended up with my 981 Spyder when I took my 997.2 GT3 for service and haven't looked back. The GT3 was amazing, very fun to drive, but my CPO was ending at the time of trade in and it made me very nervous to keep it out of warranty. The 981 was 6 years newer, and I don't have to worry about something going awry, which I always did with the GT3 even under warranty. A few months after I purchased the GT one of the side mufflers cracked, the warranty covered it but it was a $5k repair. So that was always in the back of my mind along with the coolant hose issues. Overall, I'm very happy with the Spyder which I recently FVD tuned. It's as close to a open top GT car without spending $300k for a Speedster IMO.
. Considered GT3 Touring, GT3 RS -- all significant jumps and I doubt I'd find the value in the additional money spent. I also slightly miss a turbo car, so I'm trying to push the wife into getting an M car next to accompany the Spyder. I think that'll keep the itch away for a while longer.
