gnarfle

Looking at boxsters and I'm trying to decide whether to go for a 987.1 S model or a 987.2 base. I'm drawn to the 987.1 S because of the lower used prices, better suspension and more power, however it's also an older car and is still susceptible to the IMS bearing failure (and cannot easily be upgraded to prevent it). Probably for this reason, there are some great deals on these cars...

The 987.2 has no IMS worries and the new engine seems to have fixed other potential problems as well. And of course a base 987.2 is only down 20 HP from a 2005/2006 S model.

I can't get a good grasp on reliability between these though. As I understand it the IMS bearing failure is less likely on a 2006+ model. Some people say it's so rare to not even worry about it. Others say it's a time bomb. I can't find any good stats on the frequency of failure in 2006+ cars though. And obviously the cost if it happens is catastrophic. While I plan to set aside a good budget for maintenance and repairs, I don't want to budget for a new engine...

Are there other reliability issues? Other benefits to the 987.2? Overall I think I'd prefer to go for a 987.1 S I'm just nervous about the potential for problems and feel like a 987.2 base is a safer bet...

Marine Blue

A 987.1 is a gamble. Many have had good luck with them and no issues but I have also seen plenty with bore scoring and IMS issues.

The suspension on the 987.2 is an easy fix, I'm sure you can find used S parts online and upgrade without issue. The brakes can also be upgraded if needed. The engine OTOH is a bit more involved so you need to be ok with the lower horsepower.

Have you driven both?

gnarfle

I have not driven either. I live in a fairly small city and over the past few months all I've seen for sale are cheap 1st gen boxsters. I'm contemplating a weekend trip somewhere just to test drive cars but the logistics of that are frustrating enough that I'm also contemplating just randomly picking something and seeking it out without really comparing options...

I don't know that I would miss the power much but it's hard to say without driving them. This car will be a secondary car but will still see duty around town, as well as some coastal trips, autocrossing and maybe a high performance drivers school, but don't plan on any actual track days. So I don't need extreme performance and how it 'feels' in day to day driving is more important to me. But I'm not really sure what the differences in things like the powerband and low end grunt are between, say, a 2006 S and a 2009 Base.

extanker

the base will fit your needs

Spokayman

gnarfle

Yeah this may be what I do... I'm also contemplating a C6 so I might just go for the first car that pops up that has the options I want at a good price and good mileage. I can't find any around me anyway so the best deal with the right options within 500 miles might just be it, I predict this secondary car being something I swap out every few years anyway so no real pressure to get the 'perfect' car. I mostly just want a fairly well depreciated toy to satisfy my urges without losing a ton of money on expensive new cars if I get bored and want a change of pace frequently

gnarfle

A few other questions if anyone has any insight though...

What would be considered high mileage for either 987 engine? I'm looking at 987.1 S models in the 80k range and wondering if that's really high for this car or not. Or for the 987.2 is higher mileage less of a concern on that engine? I will likely only drive 3,000 miles or so a year (I only drive 6,000 miles a year now with one car so figure this will split it).

Secondly, when it comes to an inspection, I notice a fair number of these used boxsters are being sold by a Porsche dealer. Normally I would take it to the dealer for a pre-purchase inspection, however in many cities there isn't another Porsche dealer. Are porsche dealers generally trustworthy so that I can trust their inspection if they are selling it, or should I take it to an independent shop if I can find one? I feel like as a general rule you should never trust the place selling the car, but on the other hand I feel like a Porsche dealership knows the car best...

SoCal924

80k would be higher mileage IMO. Figure 5k annual mileage is average.

I wouldn't entrust a Porsche dealer to have adequately inspected a vehicle solely because it is on their lot. However I probably would entrust them to perform an adequate PPI. Bore scoping, DME over rev readout, etc.

I've been looking for a project 987 and there does seem to be a much higher number of .1 rollers. Of course by sheer production volume this makes sense. In the past week on ebay alone there have been two .1 Caymans with catastrophic engine failures.

gnarfle

Interesting. The more I read the more I'm leaning towards a .2 base if I go that route. I'm fairly risk averse and it just seems like there are a lot of problems with the .1 engines, even if they're relatively rare they could be catastrophic... If I went with a .1 S I think I'd probably try to find a higher mileage cheap on to at least minimize my losses.

Of course the other option is to find a carmax car and buy the extended warranty...

I'll be traveling for work in a few weeks and it looks like there is a decent selection at some car lots around there so I should be able to actually get some seat time and compare the two (and a few other cars I'm considering). I feel a bit bad about test driving a car there's no way I'm going to buy, but this is probably my only easy option to find cars to test drive without a special trip so I'll do what I have to do...

Mudnut

I was in the same place a few months ago. Test drove both, and purchased a 2012 987.2 Base. It only had 10,000 k's on the odometer and feels really tight. I could not tell the difference in power between it and an older S model. The interior upgrades are worth the price increase in itself.
I do plan on daily driving mine, so milage was important.
Good luck in your search

Ken

Kevin Rohrer

The rule of thumb is always to get the newest car you can afford. Each year gets a tiny HP increase over the one before it. If you can afford a 987.2 base that is a 2012 or better, go for it.

Charlie C

FYI: 2012 was the last year of the 987. 2013 was the first year of the 981.

vMarco

gnarfle,

I'm probably gonna be the one defending the 987.1
Everything said above is true. But I still went for the 3.4S 987.1. It's a 2007 one. I guess I was in the exact same situation than you just a month ago. Maybe only easier for me as I was not really keen on downgrading to a 2.9.

So the decision went fairly straightforward. From all the countless hours I had spent on forum trying to ditch out all the risks and failure probabilities, there was one thing that I forced myself to keep in mind: people tend to talk more about failures and issues than when everything is perfect (but it might also be my never ending optimistic side).

987.1 S pre 2006 (with the 3.2) has IMS risks, fairly high!
987.1 S post 2006 (with the 3.4) has insignificant IMS probabilities of issue, BUT there is bore scoring!
987.2 is all in all a much safer buy.

Now, the way I searched for it was to try to understand the source of scored bores. From what I understood, it is more likely to happen with cars that:
- have been tracked, higher rev, more heat.
- have damaged radiators, water pump issue, coolant issue, more heat.
- cars that have had an inconsistent maintenance schedule (prefer a history that shows a yearly servicing or 10000 miles rather than a 2 year/20000 miles).

Also, some people tend to say that it is simply more prone to happen on a Cayman than a Boxster... which I have no logical explanation for. Is it because Cayman are more tracked than Boxsters? Is it because the engine gets better cooling with the top down (nah I'm just joking )

http://www.revolution-porsche.co.uk/...he-boxster-987

If you think of it, it seems like the heat issue is often the reason for the piston to score the bores. Having any coolant issue could potentially keep the engine from warming up consistently, which then would not allow the bores to expand naturally. I have read that the bores could then expand in a more oval shape rather than a perfectly round shape. You can then understand why the piston would start scoring the walls around it.

This link used to bring a huge amount of information, even though I cannot spot the right page anymore (it's a 161 pages!!!). Still a very interesting read if you want to know everything about the Porsche engines.

http://www.hartech.org/images/downlo...rs%20Guide.pdf

If you spot a car that consumes over a liter of oil every 300 miles, that is probably an advanced scored bore issue. If it smokes white when you push it... steer clear of it. If the owner gives you a test drive and he is literally hammering the car with the engine cold... just do the same on his head!

When I found mine, 2007 Boxster S 3.4 with 35000 miles, those were the first things I checked. The car has always been serviced every 10000 miles or less and the cooling system was in good shape.

So far so good, but I have to admit, it's only been 2 or 3 weeks. Time will tell if my gambling is paying off or not. I am no expert at all and I am sure all those information could be a lot deeper or more precise but I do hope it helps you in your future buying.

Tremelune

I would be much more concerned with overrevs and high-G track time (R-compound tires and slicks) in a 987.1 than the IMS. IMS issues exist, but they are rare. It's like any used car. What is the condition? How was it used? What do the records say? Was the oil changed every 5k miles or 15k miles? I wound up buying an 80k miles 987.1 Cayman S and drove it immediately across the country. Fantastic car.

The 9A1 is arguably the better motor, but they all suffer from carbon buildup that robs power slowly over time and must be cleaned by (I believe) removing the head, like every other DFI engine.

A fresh 3.6L M97 motor is $5-10k, so "catastrophic" becomes more of a cost calculation. How much more will a 987.2 cost over a 987.1? I would base the purchase more on owner and condition than a model year change.

This is not good advice. Source: The 996.

terbiumactivated

IMO the newest, lowest mileage car in the best condition isn't bad advise. Sure a garage queen can have it's own set of issues but I'm sticking with what I typed. As for the vette versus a Porsche again my opinion only they are two different kinds of cars each with their own unique driving feel.