mbodo

There is no amount of sighing or eye rolling that can be demonstrated to express how incredibly annoyed I was last night with the OEM navigation system last night (PCM 2.1 ModA) .

I decided to go look at a sports bike, so I punched in the address of the dealer - 51 Auto Center Drive. Sure enough, the little saucy British bitch in the Porsche (guided by Germans none the less) brought me to 51 Auto Center Drive, but apparently this was in the wrong town. I had told the little tart I wanted this address in Irvine, but for some reason it must have thought South Tustin was really North Irvine.

When I told the little skank I wanted to head to an intersection, she then pulled up the CORRECT intersections for the Auto Center Drive in Irvine.

To make matters worse, Mrs. Roboto was consulted (she lives in my Verizon phone) got the address correct. Too bad I didn't consult her until I was 6 miles to the north of where I needed to be. Her and I have trust issues from Washington DC earlier this month.

The moral of the story is - Navigation systems are neat toys, but like man, are fallible.

lee88

Of the navigation systems in the cars that I own, I'd have to say that the Porsche one is the most difficult to use. I've also had the problem you described whereby the nav lists a "city" or town in multiple ways... i.e. Centerville, Town of Centerville, North Centerville, etc. Perhaps this reflects real geographic or political boundaries, but in my wife's Acura or my Audi A3 the nav systems were smart enough to realize when you typed in Centerville you meant all of the above.

The nav systems from Japanese manufacturers also use touchscreen interfaces, which I find a lot easier to use than the scroll wheels that all of the German makers still use.

Adrian

There is an explanation for this problem in this thread.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/310965-cd-based-navigation-flawed-no-fix-from-p.html
Unfortunately I believe this issue may also apply to the Porsche/Nav DVD systems supplied to the American market.
Ciao,
Adrian.

mbodo

Adrian -

I'm dissapointed to read that this was a problem on the CDROM based navigation systems as well. While its nice to know that I'm not alone, my god .. one would think Navteq and/or Porsche would have figured this out by now!

Cheers,

Matt

Adrian

Matt,
Oh the problem is known and its been figured out. The problem is that nobody is prepared to pay to fix it. The Map and equipment supplier only do what they are paid/contracted to do. Read the word "cheap contract with low performance parameters". There are not many (relatively speaking) 986/987/996s with Sat Nav in the USA so there is not much incentive to fix the CD and DVD issues. You can live in hope that when a DVD update is issued and you purchase the new DVD, the problem may be solved, but don't hold your breath.
Its all over for the PSM/2 V2.0 and V3.0 CD-rom system owners. The original PCM/1 8-bit system has been abandoned like in 2001 and the PCM/1 16-bit owners just copped a break from Navteq via Opel because Opel/Vauxall used the identical Siemens system.
Ciao,
Adrian.

Renn 951

You guys are making a great argument against investing in the PCM system. I paid about $2700 to get it on my 2004 Cayenne S, and I love the convenience of the built in Nav system, but apparently I'll have to pay Navteq a few hundred $ every couple of years to get updated CDs, and in five years there may be no support at all for the system. And while I've gotten somewhat used to the whole PCM Nav system interface, it really is kind of clunky compared to what other car manufacturers offer.

Lately I've been looking at pricing for a 2007 Boxster S I'd like to buy in the next six months, and I'm seriously questioning why I should spend $3K plus for another clunky PCM Nav system when for somewhere between $500 and $1000 I can buy a portable GPS Nav system from Tom Tom, Garmin or Magellan that will be easier to update for software changes. And if it becomes obsolete in a few years I can toss it out and buy one or two next generation portable systems and still come out ahead in the long run.

If you're not interested in the integrated phone system, is there any compelling reason for opting for the PCM system on a new Boxster vs just getting a current aftermarket Nav system?

Adrian

I am afraid that for your Cayenne there is no more support for the Nav system. The best you can get is a V3.0 software upgrade and the V3.0 CDs if you don't already have them. That's it I am afraid; Porsche, Siemens and NavTeq will not be offering anything else for this system.
As for your new Boxster the question is; do you really need inbuilt SatNav? Only you can answer this question.
I do a huge amount of touring around Europe and it's invaluable, but it must be kept up to date and this is where I keep striking problems. I am good now, but it cost me a lot of money ($US1500) to get to this point and I am on the last available update of 2006/2007 as well.
As for the Portables they are really no different in their attitude and customer support. The Map updates if they are even available for a particular system are very expensive and over 5 years I could see (based on my own project doing this) you could be spending as much money if not more and end up being just as frustrated with the Portable systems as with the fixed.
I have been able to give old PDAs (iPAQs and Sony Clies) new lives by turning them into portable NavSystems, but the Navigation Map updates and the constantly changing software are still quite costly. ViaMichelin for example have their 2006 Maps out and they do not work with the 2005 software. Cost for the DVD is 229 Euros or 124 Euros for each of the 4-regions ready made up. However this still remains a cheaper option here in Europe. I really do not know what is available in the USA and what kind of coverage you can get.
For me having tested all the systems and software out there, the ViaMichelin system is the best so far and the new Haicom Nav head (GPS receiver installed onto a Compact Flash card) I recently purchased for my iPAQ 3950 is super kool.
So in the end it comes down to three things.
1/. Does the SatNav system on offer cover everywhere that you wish to go?
2/. Do you really need it?
3/. Is there a guaranteed update service, how often and how much?
Ciao,
Adrian.

PS: Porsche and co. made a serious error with this SatNav system. They should have followed the aircraft systems manufacturers and provided an update subscription service. This would have kept every system alive and kicking with the subscription funds pool paying for the updates.

PSS: I did a little more research today and this problem is mainly in the USA and not just with Porsche. Audi have also abandoned their US customers especially those with the older BNS-3 system. We can still get 2006/2007 updated CDs for these systems here in Europe.

Dougez06997S

Cry me a river, I have a 7 series. :lol:

mbodo

iDrive ... proof that Germany can over engineer a vehicle.

MUSSBERGER

Being lost in a yugo bad. Being lost in a Porsche good.

Edgy01

It's my opinion that the design of this system is by a software group based in Europe. Image how much easier it would be it the USA version would filter by STATE instead of the current COUNTRY and then CITY input. Also, when I select Lat/Long as my method of data input it wants the input as LONG and then LAT,--completely opposite the entire navigational world. (I was a global navigator for the military). NO ONE writes down or inputs lat/long in longitude first and then latitude. Also, a little intuitive programming would have saved some keystrokes by immediately ASSUMING that if you're using a North American DVD nav system in your Porsche that any longitude input would be a WEST coordinate, and any latitude input would logically be only NORTH. Duh.

The active traffic advisory service is highly effective in the European market but nonexistance in the USA. But then, our road system, our entire approach to driving (to include speed limits) are completely different from Europe, so any programmer thinking of implimenting this for the USA market would have no clue what made sense or not.

You have to think like a German to use this in America. For example, on route options you can select "shortest" or "fastest" or even "avoid freeway." In America, often the fastest route is the shortest because there is a significant speed constraint here. When you select fastest in America it is routing you onto a freeway, just like in Germany, for example, but their autobahns will be generally faster. In America you have to "know" traffic conditions for a given area and time of day to think through the options in this system.

I was fortunate to enjoy the nav system while doing a euro tour with my new car,--and there it worked flawlessly, so I know it's a good system. It was the "translation" into the America market where they spent nothing. This is a little frustrating as we know that America is a big portion of their market.

Bottom line: I still appreciate having it, but compared to the way it works, especially with dynamic, real time routing around traffic back ups (Stau) in Europe, it's worthless.

Jim in St.Louis

We need to all get together and hassle Porsche until they fix this mess they sold to us.
Any ideas?
Jim in St. Louis

tinman

any ideas???? yeah....do what you said...Porsche needs to stop throwing so many event parties and hire someone to update the disks...or subcontract it (again)....look, I'm not not a techie, but...the thought that I spent over 2 grand (+/-) without any forewarning, I kick myself in the rump. I should have saved the money. "The Driving Experience"....yup, right up to the 7/11 to ask for directions, or wait to get pulled over by the police, because you're driving lost, slowly at night in a nice car, so obviously you're a potential DUI....

The solution....old disks, Porsche updates, and GIVES us new disks and keeps us headed in the right direction.

Another stupid thing I did, I bought a car they had on the lot, a new 06, in November of 05...sales guy did not point out to me that the car did not have a spare tire (he didn't know). I "asssumed" and was a victim of being in the transition between real spare tire, glue in a can (what I have) and TPMS, which I would have gladly paid for, especially if I knew of the NAV system punchline....I should have waited a few more months and gotten TPMS, delete the NAV, got PASM, and got the 15 more HP from the new 3.4 variocam. I guess I have a classic.

BTW, I'm not rich so I can't just flip it and buy a new one every 2 years like many other people can.

Jim in St.Louis

Should we contact the other forums and organize some kind of plan via PCA members to get Porsche to update the CDs?
Any other ideas?
Jim in St. Louis

tinman

Yes we should, the majority of Navigation sytem owners either do not know, or do not care (like I said, some people only keep their cars for a few years (leases, abundant wealth)....or they may have been told by the sales people at the time, that updates would be coming (it took me 2 months to get my correct discs)...