Dallas

Hello all, I have read about the 3rd gear failures on the GT4's and wanted to know if the 981 spyder has the same potential issue. I am assuming so because they have the same engine, and both are manuals, but we know what happens when you assume.

Suicide Jockey

This question has been posed here before sporadically and it's a good one. Here's what I know:

I don't know of any third gear failures on a Spyder and, for what it's worth, until probably mid-to-late December of last year I followed religiously the thread on the GT4 forum on the third-gear failure afflicting many GT4s. I can at least say that through the end of 2017 when the thread was up to 66 pages or so, I had yet to find in that thread one report from a Spyder owner suffering from this issue. The vast majority of failures in that thread through the first 66 pages or so were reported on GT4s during track use (and on the drive home from the track, interestingly), although instances of failures on non-tracked cars was also reported. One 981 Boxster GTS reported a third-gear failure and even 718's have not been spared as there have been a few (three that I recall) that reported third gear failures on these new cars. But I didn't find in what was then a 66-page thread one single report from a 981 Spyder owner complaining of third-gear loss like on the GT4s. Maybe this has changed since I stopped following that thread back in December, in which case maybe someone can chime in.

At one point, there was what I perceived to be some confusion about a Spyder having suffered a third gear failure. Specifically, Digitalrurouni reported:

I have a Spyder and done 2 track days at 2 sort of radically different tracks. I like to think I am a smooth driver with mechanical sympathy. My car is bone stock other than an aggressive (as much as possible with X73 suspension alignment). My car has done 3k miles so far. Did any of the folks who have had failed transmission experience transmission crunches when the cars had very low miles (think hundreds) when shifting from 1st to 2nd? I did but after driving relatively aggressively (only when fluids are warmed up) do I find that the crunch has disappeared. It was there at first when I was babying it. I have not had a Porsche before so I do not know about reliability of Porsches. But this is definitely concerning which leads me to my question of - did the failed transmission folks experience any gear crunchiness before?

Note that he did not report an actual loss of third gear, but only inquired whether those GT4 owners who have suffered this fate noticed any "transmission crunching" before their third-gear failed. Nonetheless, less observant readers who maybe breezed over his post or simply didn't read it closely erroneously said later in the thread that they recalled reading about a Spyder owner (i.e.Digitalrurouni) who had reported third-gear loss, but, again, he did not lose third-gear (at least from what I could tell from his post).

Despite no reported incidents from Spyder owners, at least that I'm aware of, it is still troubling that the third gears on both the GT4 and the Spyder appear to be the same (i.e., welded instead of "spleened" based on my limited mechanical understanding).

I put regular miles on my car and will continue to do so such that if a problem arises, it will likely manifest itself during the warranty period. Those with garage queens used sparingly probably won't have a problem for the simple reason their cars aren't used enough and/or pushed hard enough for a third gear failure to arise. The fact that we know there are several Spyders with 10K + miles (some of which have been tracked) that have reported no third gear issues is a hugely positive sign, but IMO we still can't say with 100% certainty that we are immune from the difficulties many of our hard-top cousins have experienced.

That's all I know. Others may know much more and, like I said above, I haven't kept up with this issue since last December. There may be more recent developments, but in all the Spyder threads on this forum, I don't know of anyone who has indicated they suffered a third gear failure. Not one. Thus, if you are considering a Spyder, I would say don't let what seems to be a very, very remote possibility deter you from these great cars. Good luck!

Dallas

Suicide Jockey, thank you for the detailed response. It's nice to hear that so far there have been no none Spyder gear failures, although I wonder if that is due to the smaller sample size compared to the GT4. In any case, as you say, I will not let it deter me from trying to obtain one. Like many things on expensive cars, you pay your money and take your chances.

spyderphile

Awesome response, Nick, as always. Until the time you tracked that thread, have you noticed any mileage pattern? In other words, did all or majority of the failures occur before a certain mileage?

Suicide Jockey

Can't recall if there was a mileage pattern, Henry. Could be, but if so I don't remember.

Taffy66

I have a 981 Spyder with no gearbox issues and am considering an ECU tune and maybe exhaust rear bypass.My biggest worry is AFAIK the manual 981 6 speeder is strictly limited to 310 lb/ft torque..A tune would obviously exceed this, which i assume would totally invalidate any Porsche warranty should the gearbox fail for whatever reason.
Any opinions or firsthand experience would be much appreciated..

r553

The Spyder parts catalog lists two replacement transmission part number 981 300 020 22 and 981 300 020 BX as another transmission part number. The GT4 parts catalog lists the same part numbers so they are the same transmission.

Suicide Jockey

Some recent developments:

Over on the GT4 sub-forum there is a thread on a rumored recall on GT4 transmissions due to the 3rd gear failure issue with owners in the UK, Dubai, Ireland, and Hong Kong all confirming the recall. See:

https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/1128...on-recall.html

No word yet of a GT4 transmission recall here in the U.S., but it seems likely if the recall is happening in other parts of the world. It could be Porsche is stockpiling transmissions and getting parts available so when/if the recall here is announced, there will not be an undue delay and extended customer waiting time to get the new transmissions installed.

It's unclear if the recall in these other parts of the world is for GT4's with certain build dates. The general consensus, as I understand it, has been that GT4's built in 2015 don't have the 3rd gear problem, but if the car has a production date in 2016, it is these cars that are susceptible to the 3rd gear failure with March, April and May production cars having the highest frequency of 3rd gear failure.

As stated in my post above, I am not aware of any reported 3rd gear failures on 981 Spyders, although it's my understanding the GT4 and Spyder have identical 3rd gears.

If, indeed, a worldwide/U.S. recall of GT4 transmissions does come to fruition as the thread on the GT4 sub-forum tends to suggest, it will be interesting to see if the recall extends to Spyders as well. If not, the obvious question will be, "Why not?" If the GT4 and Spyder both share the same 3rd gear, which is my understanding, I don't understand how Porsche could limit the transmission recall to just GT4's and exclude Spyders.

For the hell of it, I plugged my VIN into the recall site which indicated there are no current open recalls or campaigns on my car. The recall site is here:

https://recall.porsche.com/prod/pag/...f/VIN?ReadForm

My car has a December 2015 production date so because it is not a 2016 production car there should be no 3rd gear issues with my car if my understanding of which build dates are potentially impacted is correct.

A GT4 owner in Dublin reported on the GT4 sub-forum thread that this is what popped up recently on his GT4 when he went to the recall site, so this is the type of notice GT4 owners receive in those parts of the world where the recall is currently in effect when their car is part of the recall:

Campaigns
Replace manual transmission WJ88 Feb 08,2019

Description
A 6-speed manual gearbox, in which the durability of the gear wheel for 3rd gear cannot be guaranteed over the entire service life of the vehicle due to the high performance characteristic of the drive train, was installed on the affected vehicles.

Remedy
the transmission must be replaced by an optimised transmission with reinforced gear wheels.

It will be interesting to see how this GT4 transmission recall plays out in the weeks and months ahead and whether the recall ends up being extended, in whole or in part, to all 981 Spyders, only those Spyders with certain production dates, or to no Spyders at all.

r553

The 981 Spyder has the same trans axle as the GT4.

spyderphile

Thanks for passing on the info, Nick. If there has never been a failure in Spyders, then we may not see any movement, regardless the tranny is the same. There got to be something different; if not mechanically, in application, or some variable. We may not need to worry about it, until a documented failure. I'm sure Porsche will take care of us even beyond the powertrain warranty if a failure occurs.

Suicide Jockey

I'm with you, Henry. I have to think there is something different about the Spyder which makes it immune to the problems some GT4 folks have experienced, otherwise we would have certainly heard complaints by now as some Spyders will be approaching the four year mark later this year. Thus, if the recall is limited to the GT4, I'm going to view that as a clear statement by Porsche that possible 3rd gear failure is a problem isolated to GT4's.

Marine Blue

SpyderSenseOC

I think it has a lot to do with the fact that the Spyders and tougher and more bad ***.

spyderphile

The HP and weight difference between Spyder and GT4 are extremely marginal. Practically, a non-factor. The specs' tolerance would be higher.

Dallas

NIce to her the Spyder has not thad the problems the GT4 has had. Thank you everyone for the feedback.