K-A

I'm not especially concerned with Porsche's global sales. I'm not a Porsche-corporate enthusiast, I'm a Porsche-product enthusiast. China buying up all their 718's won't help us out here, as our dealers are still rumored to be pulling the products sometime in the future (hopefully not true).

I care about the U.S enthusiast market because it's literally the only market I can buy from, and it's more a reflection to me.

Point being, if 718 sales are doing well in China, because they couldn't give a damn about 4 cylinder this or that, or don't have the backlog of experience with a sonorous N/A flat 6, while 718 sales are plummeting in the U.S, guess what happens to the car out here? We can't buy it anymore. Reading articles about Porsche growth in China while we're seeing our sports car numbers suffer due to their being designed now to cater more to the China market, won't do us any good.

Semitone

I would love to see the global numbers by region. I haven't been able to find them. Can you point me to your source? Thanks.

fast1

I had the good fortune of attending many F1 races back in the 1960s when I was a teenager. My father worked in London back then and was a racing enthusiast. Since my mom had no interest in racing, my father took me to the races.

Even F1 cars back then were low tech. So drivers and not the cars would typically determine the winner, and yes, there was lots and lots of passing. The driver I will never forget is Jim Clark. He was great in whatever race he entered. I believe he was the only driver to win the Indy 500 and the F1 championship in the same year.

I had the pleasure of seeing many F1 races with my father, but I always enjoyed Monaco the most. The superhuman concentration it took to flawlessly execute over 3600 gear shifts and countless braking without ABS is mind blowing. And one missed shift or locking up the brakes would more than likely cost the driver a position. Man, I miss those races and those drivers.

MidEngineRules

Well stated. Like you, I tend to speak in terms of reality, not pure speculation and WAGs. The same argument used to promote the 982 was used by the 981 versus the 987, and by the 987 versus the 986. It's called incremental progress. As far as I'm concerned any of these cars with 300+ hp is more than adequate power. Beyond that it's all about the driving experience. I love how some promote the 718's steering like it's revolutionary. I have the same steering in my Spyder. It's nice, but so was the steering in my 987s. In fact, I prefer the steering in the 987 in terms of road feel. Aside from peak power output differences, nothing else adds up to much. And I prefer linear power, so I'm happy to stay pre 2017. Bring on the electrics!

fast1

I test drove a 718BS last time I had my 981BS serviced. I enjoyed the low end torque and some of the styling changes of the 718, but not nearly enough for me to spend $40K plus my 981BS.

MidEngineRules

I truly believe had the 981 S not shared the same motor as the base 991, Porsche would not have muted it with a smaller throttle body and allowed it to have the power it deserved. Even the GTS models were absurdly mild power bumps over the S. The 718 is naturally emasculated versus the 991 by the elimination of 2 cylinders and lower displacement so Porsche didn't have to mute it. The 981 BS/CS should have at least had the same power as the 987 Cayman R (330) if not more. If I had a 981 out of warranty I would be giving the 981 back the power that Porsche purposely left on the table to keep the precious 991 on top. I never liked how Porsche intentionally kept the BS/CS down on power compared to the 911. Same applies to my Spyder. I don't need the extra power per se but it would have been nice for Porsche to have given it. Maybe one day I'll contact FVD and pump the Spyder to 412 hp.

Semitone

So the argument by the 981 fanboys is: "Mine is bigger than yours and I don't know how to use it anyway?" OK, Now I understand.

I thought it was just "guys who bought the 981 because the couldn't afford a real Porsche" were happy to try to **** on somebody else for a while.

fast1

Porsche would have to charge the same for the 981S and 991 if they both had the same HP. That is the way Porsche prices its sports cars. Fortunately, tuners have broken the Porsche code. TPC racing for example offers an ECU tune which will give the 981S the same 350 HP as a 991, and the price is only $1795. Porsche would have charged $20K if they offered the 981S with the same HP as the 991.

fast1

Stock for stock you are undoubtedly right. I live in MD and there are two 981 Cayman S owners I know who had an ECU tune by TPC racing. They showed me the dyno results after the tune, and one was 363 HP and the other 365 HP. I would expect that these cars would give a 718S some serious competition at the track. BTW the tune only cost them $1795.

manifold danger

This is insane. Until your post I hadn't really considered doing anything at all to my 981 BGTS but now that's out the window. I'm definitely going to take advantage of this.

To put it in perspective, I had a Cobb AccessPort with a custom tune on my 2015 STI; however, I also added a full turbo-back exhaust system, an open-element intake and bigger injectors (known to the Subaru community as a "Stage 2+"). The whole setup set me back about $5k including labor. The end result netted me about 40hp over stock- which brought it to 310HP at the wheels (AWD, so more of a dropoff at the wheels as the power from the crank passes through the drivetrain than even a FWD or RWD would have). I was actually very pleased with the result- the car sounded great (for a Subaru), and pulled WAY harder than stock, and the car wasn't slow to begin with. Still very much "streetable" with everyday livability unaffected (although I will add that Subaru engines are very finicky and can have an adverse effect on their owners blood pressure once you start paying attention to all the minutiae reported by the AccessPort- but mostly all of that was in my mind).

$5k for 40hp in a Subaru, which is deemed to be one of the most mod-friendly platforms in the enthusiast community. $1800 for 30hp seems like one hell of a bargain... although I imagine it's actually more like 15-20 hp as mine is already a GTS. But I also don't have to spring for "ancillary" parts like intake/exhaust/injectors. (I will note also that the AccessPort cost $650 for my Subaru and it's $1295 for the Porsche... I'm almost 100% positive it's the exact same piece of equipment... but apparently its cost scales with the cost of the car it's being used on...).

Performance figures are already within striking distance of the new cars, I imagine this would pull it about even. Plus I get to keep the sound and character. Win-win.

I still like the 718 but I agonized over this decision for quite some time before finally deciding on my GTS. I still occasionally look at the 718 with envy, as it does offer some distinct advantages. But after all is said and done, I couldn't be happier with where I landed, and now have genuine excitement about the AccessPort.

Although... for what it's worth, I'm sure Cobb will unleash some serious power via tuning for the 718s as well.

MidEngineRules

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Take your misplaced angst elsewhere please and thank you.

MidEngineRules

See post #165. There's only one tuner I'd trust, and it sure isn't Cobb.

cobalt

The cobb has proven to be quite reliable and have a lot of 981's tracked and tested on a mustang dyno with headers showing reliable 365BHP from S & GTS 981's. The Mustang is a very conservative dyno. FVD is well known but the results we have show Cobb is the way to go. Also the increased plenum adds 0 HP that I can prove with dyno charts.

I am not sure about your comment to me. I wasn't saying that 325 was inadequate if that is what you meant. I was saying more is not always better. Power is power and driving a more powerful car doesn't necessarily make you faster. How to put the power down especially without aids is a learned process.

fast1

I couldn't agree more with your statement. As someone who use to race in SCCA sanctioned events and has participated in countless DEs at various tracks in the US, I have observed many, many drivers who didn't have a clue about proper racing lines, apexes or even how to brake properly. So when I politely suggest to some of these novices that attending a Racing School will help them improve their driving skills, almost everyone dismisses my suggestion. They say the classes are too expensive, and that they would rather invest their money on engine and suspension modifications.The irony is that many of them were passed on tracks by Hondas which had far less HP than their Porsche 911s.

Suicide Jockey

Monaco was my first F1 race in 1984. Struggling student living in Paris. Took the TGV to Nice the night before the race, scored a cheap ticket, and on Sunday found myself sitting at la piscine with the biggest grin on my face, pinching myself. Didn't know then that it would turn out to be a historic race and one that would end in controversy with the race stopped early, at Prost's urging, due to rain with Senna closing quickly gaining 3 seconds a lap on Prost in challenging conditions - - probably THE most epic drive in the rain EVER. Prost got the victory, but Senna stole the hearts and minds.

I've been fortunate to catch some great sporting events over the years (e.g., Super Bowls, Stanley Cup Finals, Olympics, World Cup, et al.), but Monaco '84 was the granddaddy of them all and for me the most memorable.